On 1/11/2012 8:45 PM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
On 1/11/2012 8:37 PM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
MRC's Panda T20 monitor talks DECnet with KLH, you just need to get the
host it runs on to handle the MAC address change and Ethernet multicast
packets.
Both T10 and T20 suffers from that it's tricky to open a IP-tunnel from
inside the monitor itself.
I poked around with a combination of user-program and kernel-decnet interface
to talk DECnet over IP/UDP the way Multinet does it.
As any small cisco router talks DECnet in IP, I solved the problem
that way...
-P
(and there was a radi64 encoded blob I could not read on this subject,
sorry...)
bart#show decnet
% DECnet is not enabled
This is a cisco router I guess?
Any idea how I enable it?
!
decnet routing 59.11
decnet node-type routing-iv
!
!
interface Tunnel3000
no ip address
logging event subif-link-status
decnet cost 10
tunnel source 192.108.200.213
tunnel destination 199.0.131.2
!
interface Ethernet0
ip address 192.108.200.213 255.255.255.248
no ip directed-broadcast
logging event subif-link-status
decnet cost 10
decnet router-priority 125
bart#show decnet
Global DECnet parameters for network 0:
Local address is 52.1, node type is area
Level-2 'Attached' flag is TRUE
Maximum node is 1023, maximum area is 63, maximum visits is 63
Maximum paths is 1, path split mode is normal
Local maximum cost is 1022, maximum hops is 30
Area maximum cost is 1022, maximum hops is 30
Static routes *NOT* being sent in routing updates
Cluster-alias routes *NOT* being sent in routing updates
bart#
So, who wants to do a tunnel to me with cisco?
Also, what ports/etc does this use, do you know? Is this a GRE tunnel?
-brian
On 1/11/2012 8:37 PM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
MRC's Panda T20 monitor talks DECnet with KLH, you just need to get the
host it runs on to handle the MAC address change and Ethernet multicast
packets.
Both T10 and T20 suffers from that it's tricky to open a IP-tunnel from
inside the monitor itself.
I poked around with a combination of user-program and kernel-decnet interface
to talk DECnet over IP/UDP the way Multinet does it.
As any small cisco router talks DECnet in IP, I solved the problem
that way...
-P
(and there was a radi64 encoded blob I could not read on this subject,
sorry...)
bart#show decnet
% DECnet is not enabled
This is a cisco router I guess?
Any idea how I enable it?
!
decnet routing 59.11
decnet node-type routing-iv
!
!
interface Tunnel3000
no ip address
logging event subif-link-status
decnet cost 10
tunnel source 192.108.200.213
tunnel destination 199.0.131.2
!
interface Ethernet0
ip address 192.108.200.213 255.255.255.248
no ip directed-broadcast
logging event subif-link-status
decnet cost 10
decnet router-priority 125
On 1/11/2012 8:37 PM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
MRC's Panda T20 monitor talks DECnet with KLH, you just need to get the
host it runs on to handle the MAC address change and Ethernet multicast
packets.
Both T10 and T20 suffers from that it's tricky to open a IP-tunnel from
inside the monitor itself.
I poked around with a combination of user-program and kernel-decnet interface
to talk DECnet over IP/UDP the way Multinet does it.
As any small cisco router talks DECnet in IP, I solved the problem
that way...
-P
(and there was a radi64 encoded blob I could not read on this subject,
sorry...)
bart#show decnet
% DECnet is not enabled
Any idea how I enable it?
-brian
MRC's Panda T20 monitor talks DECnet with KLH, you just need to get the
host it runs on to handle the MAC address change and Ethernet multicast
packets.
Both T10 and T20 suffers from that it's tricky to open a IP-tunnel from
inside the monitor itself.
I poked around with a combination of user-program and kernel-decnet interface
to talk DECnet over IP/UDP the way Multinet does it.
As any small cisco router talks DECnet in IP, I solved the problem
that way...
-P
(and there was a radi64 encoded blob I could not read on this subject,
sorry...)
Joe,
Could you explain how the TOPS-20 system is connected to your network?
Your mail indicates the ability to do a SET HOST from WOPR to TOPS20, is that right?
If so then there is DECnet connectivity between WOPR and TOPS20.
or am I missing something?
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Joe Ferraro
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] TOPS-20 DECnet
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 03:49
I'll echo the sentiment of not wanting to sound like an AOL user.... With all of the recent, invigorating HECnet discussion, I am curious if anyone has a decent [approachable] resource for getting a TOPS-20 instance on the [HEC] net. I have a non-panda instance up (ARPAnet), and have a version of DECnet [apparently] installed, but no dice with HECnet connectivity. Worse case I guess I may use a captive account of sorts to gateway from WOPR:: to the 20x node via telnet.... but that just seems wrong in principle... Joe
On 2012-01-11 10.48, gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 21:49:49 -0500, you wrote:
With all of the recent, invigorating HECnet discussion, I am curious if
anyone has a decent [approachable] resource for getting a TOPS-20 instance
on the [HEC] net. I have a non-panda instance up (ARPAnet), and have a
version of DECnet [apparently] installed, but no dice with HECnet
connectivity. Worse case I guess I may use a captive account of sorts to
gateway from WOPR:: to the 20x node via telnet.... but that just seems
wrong in principle...
Well, I've seen no answer on this topic from other members, so I'll try
myself. In truth I've no TOPS-20 DECnet experience, but I've it on TOPS-10.
BTW, I seem to remember that years ago there was a TOPS-20 host on HECnet.
.ncp tell sol sho exec
Node summary as of 11-JAN-12 12:00:09
Executor node = 59.10 (SOL)
Identification = Systems Concepts SF CA USA - SC30M - DN-20 4.0
State = On, Active links = 0
.
Unfortunately I don't have many suggestions on how you do it. You do need to use ethernet, so my bridge would be a potential solution, but you might also have a VMS box on the same ethernet segment, and let that one do your routing for you.
Unless I remember wrong, there is one or two files in the system which have all the configuration parameters needed. I could probably dig some stuff up, but I know there are way more competent people in this area around, so I'll try to refrain from giving half-baked advice...
Johnny
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 21:49:49 -0500, you wrote:
With all of the recent, invigorating HECnet discussion, I am curious if
anyone has a decent [approachable] resource for getting a TOPS-20 instance
on the [HEC] net. I have a non-panda instance up (ARPAnet), and have a
version of DECnet [apparently] installed, but no dice with HECnet
connectivity. Worse case I guess I may use a captive account of sorts to
gateway from WOPR:: to the 20x node via telnet.... but that just seems
wrong in principle...
Well, I've seen no answer on this topic from other members, so I'll try
myself. In truth I've no TOPS-20 DECnet experience, but I've it on TOPS-10.
BTW, I seem to remember that years ago there was a TOPS-20 host on HECnet.
I do know that TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 are quite dissimilar, but I've to say
that setting up DECnet on TOPS-10 was not so difficult, so I think that on
TOPS-20 it will be even easier, given the overall OS look and feel. After a
brief Google search, if I'm not wrong, it appears that you need at least
TOPS-20 V6.1 to partecipate in an Ethernet DECnet network.
On TOPS-10 I had just to load the DECnet tape contents into the relevant
directories (i.e. help files in HLP: executables in SYS: and so on) and to
rebuild the monitor to include Ethernet network support by following an
on-screen procedure not so different from an old Linux make config.
For help, I consider alt.sys.pdp10, Bitsavers archive and Trailing-Edge
repository to be the most valuable sources (along with many other tiny sites
you may discover by just using the right search terms with Google).
Are you experiencing some particular problem?
Bye, :)
G.
The latter option makes it a bit difficult to read, even now and you've only
9 nodes on your map!
Still learning.
There's new version, HECnet_20120111.png ready.
--
Regards, Rok
Rok,
I just copied HECNET.PNG. It holds a lot of detail, more detail than I
intended to put in the map.
One question: area 44 has only my systems in it and they are all on the same
network, a switched ethernet. So a drawing either ought to sho a single line
with all nodes connected to it or point-to-point connections for all nodes.
The latter option makes it a bit difficult to read, even now and you've only
9 nodes on your map!
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Rok
Vidmar
Verzonden: dinsdag, januari 2012 0:01
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet map update
Copied to
http://vaxsys.mikromuseo.org/example/HECNETUTCMAP1.GIF
Check MUSIPC::HECnet.png. BE is Bridged Ethernet, read are
area routers, green are endnodes, black lines are Multinet tunnels.
--
Regards, Rok
There's a new, corrected picture on OZON: HECNETUTCMAP3.GIF
It has all the changes mailed today.
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Bob
Armstrong
Verzonden: dinsdag, januari 2012 21:33
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: [HECnet] info Steve Davidson
It's astounding
time is fleeting.
Madness takes its toll.
Bob
It's astounding
time is fleeting.
Madness takes its toll.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf
Of hvlems at zonnet.nl
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:23 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] info Steve Davidson
Yeah, that sums it up nicely :)
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Angela Kahealani
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] info Steve Davidson
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 21:17
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 09:54:52AM -0500, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Hmm, we aren't in daylight savings now? Or is that DST? I can never
freakin' remember. :-D
It's long past time for humans to stop lying to themselves about "what time
it is" and everyone convert to UTC...
it is, after all, "Universal" :-)
--
Aloha, IW(TM): Celestial Angela; SL(TM): Celeste Python; Angela
Kahealani
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are private
between
the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights reserve without
prejudice by
Angela Kahealani
http://www.kahealani.com/kahealani/angela_kahealani.html
Yeah, that sums it up nicely :)
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Angela Kahealani
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] info Steve Davidson
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 21:17
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 09:54:52AM -0500, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Hmm, we aren't in daylight savings now? Or is that DST? I can never
freakin' remember. :-D
It's long past time for humans to stop lying to themselves about
"what time it is" and everyone convert to UTC...
it is, after all, "Universal" :-)
--
Aloha, IW(TM): Celestial Angela; SL(TM): Celeste Python; Angela Kahealani
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are private between
the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights reserve without prejudice by
Angela Kahealani http://www.kahealani.com/kahealani/angela_kahealani.html
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 09:54:52AM -0500, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Hmm, we aren't in daylight savings now? Or is that DST? I can never
freakin' remember. :-D
It's long past time for humans to stop lying to themselves about
"what time it is" and everyone convert to UTC...
it is, after all, "Universal" :-)
--
Aloha, IW(TM): Celestial Angela; SL(TM): Celeste Python; Angela Kahealani
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are private between
the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights reserve without prejudice by
Angela Kahealani http://www.kahealani.com/kahealani/angela_kahealani.html
Hmm, we aren't in daylight savings now? Or is that DST? I can never freakin' remember. :-D
-brian
On 1/10/2012 9:53 AM, Steve Davidson wrote:
Area 19 is in UTC-5
________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of H Vlems
Sent: Mon 1/9/2012 15:52
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] info Steve Davidson
Steve,
what timezone are you(r systems) in?
Hans
Area 19 is in UTC-5
________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of H Vlems
Sent: Mon 1/9/2012 15:52
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] info Steve Davidson
Steve,
what timezone are you(r systems) in?
Hans
Just remember that there are about 600 timezones. While there are only about 30 different offset values at any one time, the rules by which they change during the year vary randomly all over the map. Timezones are much much messier than a lot of people realize.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Peter Coghlan
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:59 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: SV: [HECnet] Hecnet map update
I like the idea of expanding the info.txt .. time zone column
Fine by me. How is time zone expressed? Simply giving a numeric offset
from GMT is problematic for places that observe daylight savings time -
we'd have to update the file twice every year. Can we use something like PST8PDT??
If we want to specify a time zone, the only reasonable way to do it is numerically, specifying both hours and minutes as not all timezones are on hour boundaries. Strings such as PST and PDT are not defined for all timezones, are not unique and many are not well understood at a distance. I am told that EST means two different things in Australia and another in the US for example.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
We use it for the location, right.
Sounds like we're only using TZ as an excuse for longitude, and assuming
no HECnet members live in the southern hemisphere. Just use the city and/or
country name, which is already in the INFO.TXT file.
Bob
DST changes aren't even necessary. Unless someone plans to adjust the map periodically.
I agree with Peter: put UTC+delta in INFO.TXT. For the moment that is fine.
No southern hemisphere users in HECnet, right ?
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Peter Lothberg
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Cc: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: SV: [HECnet] Hecnet map update
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 20:47
I like the idea of expanding the info.txt .. time zone column=20
Fine by me. How is time zone expressed? Simply giving a numeric =
offset from GMT is problematic for places that observe daylight savings =
time - we'd have to update the file twice every year. Can we use =
something like PST8PDT??
Bob
A box of worms:
So there is 1h, 30min and 15min timezones and some +300 local
daylight savings rules.
Suggestion is that you put the current UTC offset in the file, and
have a local batch/cron job that modifies it according to local DST
rules.
For those intertested, http://www.iana.org/time-zones has the
list... -:)
--Peter
I like the idea of expanding the info.txt .. time zone column=20
Fine by me. How is time zone expressed? Simply giving a numeric =
offset from GMT is problematic for places that observe daylight savings =
time - we'd have to update the file twice every year. Can we use =
something like PST8PDT??
Bob
A box of worms:
So there is 1h, 30min and 15min timezones and some +300 local
daylight savings rules.
Suggestion is that you put the current UTC offset in the file, and
have a local batch/cron job that modifies it according to local DST
rules.
For those intertested, http://www.iana.org/time-zones has the
list... -:)
--Peter
Meh. Nice idea perhaps, but not working. Oh well.
There are some possible tricks anyway.
You could create a file on the remote machine if allowed, and check the =
timestamp.
You can also check local time using remote datatrieve.
If you have a decnet-aware finger server, that might tell you.
And of course, if you can log in or run remote jobs, anything can be =
done.
But how about expanding the host.txt file (or whatever the name was)?
Johnny
--
I can find out how my clock is compared to UTC by looking in Circular-T... _:)
-P
I like the idea of expanding the info.txt .. time zone column
Fine by me. How is time zone expressed? Simply giving a numeric offset
from GMT is problematic for places that observe daylight savings time - we'd
have to update the file twice every year. Can we use something like PST8PDT??
If we want to specify a time zone, the only reasonable way to do it is
numerically, specifying both hours and minutes as not all timezones are on hour
boundaries. Strings such as PST and PDT are not defined for all timezones, are
not unique and many are not well understood at a distance. I am told that EST
means two different things in Australia and another in the US for example.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Use the UTC+delta format and forget about summertime. We use it for the location, right.
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Bob Armstrong
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: SV: [HECnet] Hecnet map update
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 03:07
I like the idea of expanding the info.txt .. time zone column
Fine by me. How is time zone expressed? Simply giving a numeric offset from GMT is problematic for places that observe daylight savings time - we'd have to update the file twice every year. Can we use something like PST8PDT??
Bob
No problem, bay area is fine.
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Bob Armstrong
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet map update
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 01:45
When mapped on timezones the HECnet links are rather bizarre....
Some of you guys in the EU need to move to California...
Bob
On the other hand, using TZ as a way to place mahines
geographically basically sucks.
The location of each machine is already in the file, at least in the form of a city and country name. I'm sure there's some web service that would translate that into a lat/long.
Bob
