- HECnet - lists @ Update

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 9 Jun 2012, at 17:21, Rob Jarratt wrote: That *is* cheap, but wrong continent :-( I will look around for these now. Regards Rob There's one rx2600 on Ebay right now, check item #200773544925. That's as cheap as it gets. Damn, I need one of those server front-panels ;) Almost all Itanium machines can run VMS. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html I didn't realise it was that widespread, although most of those are later model Integrity servers that came *after* the rx2600, and so are likely outside the Hobbyist ballpark. Maybe I was confusing the framebuffer support or something. If you are feeling RICH there's always eBay #170855134495 - Nice lump of hardware for that money but you;d need a SAS 2.5" disk which would cost nearly as much as the server :P The workstation models are unfortunately rare. ... and when you find zx6000s they usually have FireGL4 cards in like the one I just ripped out of mine. No VMS support for those and HP-UX support is limited only to the specific distribution supplied with the zx2000/6000 workstations :( Radeon 7000 and 7500 cards for Itanium are rarer than the machines! Sometimes you might find one on Ebay. The advantage of the workstation models are that the fans are more quiet than the server models have. You can tell if a machine has the zx6000 fans, visually, because they are only half depth compared to the rx2600 server fans (so only fill the front half of the hot-swap fan bay). As Kari says, the zx6000 fans are much quieter, probably not so droning as server fans either. My zx6000 is quite amicable to sit next to with 1x 15krpm 73GB disk, however I yanked a CPU out ogf mine so it only has one CPU turbo-fan running which cuts the noise down quite a bit. Just some food for thought... My zx6000 came orgiinally configured with 24GB of RAM and 2x 1.3GHz CPUs and a FireGL4 graphics card. The original purpose? It was a CAD station for Honda Formula 1 at Bracknell :) I think Mark Wickens has one (but his has all the outer skins still, mine doesn't) fropm the same place and so does Dan Williams. for machines that date back to 2003... that's a lot of spec! -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 9 Jun 2012, at 17:17, Sampsa Laine wrote: Does anyone know how to reset the iLO module? I somehow lost the password and the reset button doesn't work - is there someway to force it back to factory settings? Sampsa, does that output as a frame-buffer in OpenVMS DECWindows? It apparently should do... -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

It's described in the Owner's Guide, but if don't have it at hand, you can find it at: http://bizsupport1.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/lpn04096/lpn… See the page 3-26 Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 19:17, Sampsa Laine wrote: Does anyone know how to reset the iLO module? I somehow lost the password and the reset button doesn't work - is there someway to force it back to factory settings? Sampsa On 9 Jun 2012, at 17:06, Kari Uusim ki wrote: Forgot to mention that the graphics adapter support on Itanium machines is really limited. There's a good article on that at the Hoff site: http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/46 Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:52, Kari Uusim ki wrote: There's one rx2600 on Ebay right now, check item #200773544925. That's as cheap as it gets. It is exactly the same as zx6000 except for the I/O card cage and the fans. Almost all Itanium machines can run VMS. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html The workstation models are unfortunately rare. Sometimes you might find one on Ebay. The advantage of the workstation models are that the fans are more quiet than the server models have. Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:16, Rob Jarratt wrote: I occasionally think about getting some kind of Itanium to run VMS on. I know zero about these machine, what models would people suggest that I might be able to buy at hobbyist prices? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson Sent: 09 June 2012 15:39 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] HP Integrity On 9 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Kari Uusim ki wrote: I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000 Itanium machines do demand a LOT of RAM. I can only assume the assembly language/machine code is very inefficient ;) but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. Yeah, a lot of HP gear of the same era uses the RAM This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Indeed. I more wanted to let folks know I can provide the spares on a sale or trade basis at community pricing (i.e. cheap) as they are still very expensive from most sources. -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts. . . .

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

That *is* cheap, but wrong continent :-( I will look around for these now. Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki Sent: 09 June 2012 16:53 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] HP Integrity There's one rx2600 on Ebay right now, check item #200773544925. That's as cheap as it gets. It is exactly the same as zx6000 except for the I/O card cage and the fans. Almost all Itanium machines can run VMS. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html The workstation models are unfortunately rare. Sometimes you might find one on Ebay. The advantage of the workstation models are that the fans are more quiet than the server models have. Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:16, Rob Jarratt wrote: I occasionally think about getting some kind of Itanium to run VMS on. I know zero about these machine, what models would people suggest that I might be able to buy at hobbyist prices? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner- hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson Sent: 09 June 2012 15:39 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] HP Integrity On 9 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Kari Uusim ki wrote: I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000 Itanium machines do demand a LOT of RAM. I can only assume the assembly language/machine code is very inefficient ;) but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. Yeah, a lot of HP gear of the same era uses the RAM This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Indeed. I more wanted to let folks know I can provide the spares on a sale or trade basis at community pricing (i.e. cheap) as they are still very expensive from most sources. -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts. .

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by sampsa＠mac.com

Does anyone know how to reset the iLO module? I somehow lost the password and the reset button doesn't work - is there someway to force it back to factory settings? Sampsa On 9 Jun 2012, at 17:06, Kari Uusim ki wrote: Forgot to mention that the graphics adapter support on Itanium machines is really limited. There's a good article on that at the Hoff site: http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/46 Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:52, Kari Uusim ki wrote: There's one rx2600 on Ebay right now, check item #200773544925. That's as cheap as it gets. It is exactly the same as zx6000 except for the I/O card cage and the fans. Almost all Itanium machines can run VMS. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html The workstation models are unfortunately rare. Sometimes you might find one on Ebay. The advantage of the workstation models are that the fans are more quiet than the server models have. Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:16, Rob Jarratt wrote: I occasionally think about getting some kind of Itanium to run VMS on. I know zero about these machine, what models would people suggest that I might be able to buy at hobbyist prices? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson Sent: 09 June 2012 15:39 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] HP Integrity On 9 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Kari Uusim ki wrote: I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000 Itanium machines do demand a LOT of RAM. I can only assume the assembly language/machine code is very inefficient ;) but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. Yeah, a lot of HP gear of the same era uses the RAM This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Indeed. I more wanted to let folks know I can provide the spares on a sale or trade basis at community pricing (i.e. cheap) as they are still very expensive from most sources. -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts. . .

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

Forgot to mention that the graphics adapter support on Itanium machines is really limited. There's a good article on that at the Hoff site: http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/46 Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:52, Kari Uusim ki wrote: There's one rx2600 on Ebay right now, check item #200773544925. That's as cheap as it gets. It is exactly the same as zx6000 except for the I/O card cage and the fans. Almost all Itanium machines can run VMS. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html The workstation models are unfortunately rare. Sometimes you might find one on Ebay. The advantage of the workstation models are that the fans are more quiet than the server models have. Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:16, Rob Jarratt wrote: I occasionally think about getting some kind of Itanium to run VMS on. I know zero about these machine, what models would people suggest that I might be able to buy at hobbyist prices? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson Sent: 09 June 2012 15:39 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] HP Integrity On 9 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Kari Uusim ki wrote: I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000 Itanium machines do demand a LOT of RAM. I can only assume the assembly language/machine code is very inefficient ;) but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. Yeah, a lot of HP gear of the same era uses the RAM This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Indeed. I more wanted to let folks know I can provide the spares on a sale or trade basis at community pricing (i.e. cheap) as they are still very expensive from most sources. -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts. . .

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

There's one rx2600 on Ebay right now, check item #200773544925. That's as cheap as it gets. It is exactly the same as zx6000 except for the I/O card cage and the fans. Almost all Itanium machines can run VMS. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html The workstation models are unfortunately rare. Sometimes you might find one on Ebay. The advantage of the workstation models are that the fans are more quiet than the server models have. Regards, Kari On 9.6.2012 18:16, Rob Jarratt wrote: I occasionally think about getting some kind of Itanium to run VMS on. I know zero about these machine, what models would people suggest that I might be able to buy at hobbyist prices? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson Sent: 09 June 2012 15:39 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] HP Integrity On 9 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Kari Uusim ki wrote: I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000 Itanium machines do demand a LOT of RAM. I can only assume the assembly language/machine code is very inefficient ;) but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. Yeah, a lot of HP gear of the same era uses the RAM This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Indeed. I more wanted to let folks know I can provide the spares on a sale or trade basis at community pricing (i.e. cheap) as they are still very expensive from most sources. -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts. .

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I occasionally think about getting some kind of Itanium to run VMS on. I know zero about these machine, what models would people suggest that I might be able to buy at hobbyist prices? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson Sent: 09 June 2012 15:39 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] HP Integrity On 9 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Kari Uusim ki wrote: I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000 Itanium machines do demand a LOT of RAM. I can only assume the assembly language/machine code is very inefficient ;) but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. Yeah, a lot of HP gear of the same era uses the RAM This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Indeed. I more wanted to let folks know I can provide the spares on a sale or trade basis at community pricing (i.e. cheap) as they are still very expensive from most sources. -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 9 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Kari Uusim ki wrote: I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000 Itanium machines do demand a LOT of RAM. I can only assume the assembly language/machine code is very inefficient ;) but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. Yeah, a lot of HP gear of the same era uses the RAM This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Indeed. I more wanted to let folks know I can provide the spares on a sale or trade basis at community pricing (i.e. cheap) as they are still very expensive from most sources. -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

On 9.6.2012 17:02, Mark Benson wrote: If anyone has a HP Integrity zx6000, rx2600 or a similar machine that takes DDR2100 Registered ECC RAM I have 2x spare pairs of 2GB RAM sticks available pulled fresh working from my zx6000. I also have a 1.3GHz/3MB cache CPU module that I might be persuaded to part with. This is more an FYI than a 'I must get rid of these for cash now' - I figured a few people were running Integrity machines and might want he parts. I took mine down to 1 CPU and 8GB of RAM to cut down the power consumption and heat output (it's down from 480W to 200W at idle now :) ). Now to install VMS 8.4 on it! I had a problem with lacking memory (1GB) on my zx6000, but then I dug into a scrap pile of HP blades (BL20p) and found memory which had the same parameters as a zx6000/rx2600 needs. Decided to test and to my big surprise I found out that the blade memory worked in the zx6000. Now I have enough memory. This is more like a nice to know post for everybody. Kari

13 years, 1 month

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netowrk flapping....

by marc＠bluevine.net

With my connection, I noticed that the circuit would disconnect and reconnect periodically. It corresponded to the timeout in my firewall causing the UDP association to be lost. When I increased the timeout in my firewall for these port 700 UDP "connections", that made my circuit much more stable. Unfortunately, my firewall (a SonicWALL NSA 240) is also stupid in that it *must* randomize the source port for outgoing packets, so I'm not able to connect to HECnet because MultiNet insists that the source port must also be 700 and mine are coming through with random port numbers. --Marc

13 years, 1 month

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HP Integrity

by md.benson＠gmail.com

If anyone has a HP Integrity zx6000, rx2600 or a similar machine that takes DDR2100 Registered ECC RAM I have 2x spare pairs of 2GB RAM sticks available pulled fresh working from my zx6000. I also have a 1.3GHz/3MB cache CPU module that I might be persuaded to part with. This is more an FYI than a 'I must get rid of these for cash now' - I figured a few people were running Integrity machines and might want he parts. I took mine down to 1 CPU and 8GB of RAM to cut down the power consumption and heat output (it's down from 480W to 200W at idle now :) ). Now to install VMS 8.4 on it! -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

13 years, 1 month

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Introducing myself... and my little network

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 09/06/2012, a les 7:01, Peter Lothberg va escriure: 1) Defining the permanent node database for both TOPS10 and TOPS20. NCP rejects the DEFINE NODE commands. I guess there is some sort of utility like the one in RSX (CFE) to define the "permanent" node list, but I've not been able to find that one. There is a NIPGEN in TOPS-10 to build a CMD file with the SET NODE commands, but no NIPGEN in TOPS-20 that I've been able to find... T10/T20 has no permanent database, nor does it understand copy, look for a program named nodnam.exe it reads ini:NODNAM.INI and populated the node-name-table.. And nodnam.ini looks like this... (...) I've found NODNAM in both TOPS10 and TOPS20... Now I'll try to find where to hook it so its get executed on system startup. define node 1.42 name BIGBOA define node 1.100 name FLETCH define node 1.150 name GLGMSH Hmmm time to code a little program to parse the output of SHOW KNOWN NODES and build this file :) Here's what's on SOL.. type 7-PTYCON.ATO SILENCE (...) Do you know what is the equivalent file for TOPS-10? Is that SYSJOB.INI? type SYSTEM:NCP.CMD ENTER NCP SET KNOWN LOGGING STATE OFF SET EXECUTOR ID "SC40M, Stupi Stockholm, Tops20" SET KNOWN CIRCUIT ROUTER PRIORITY 10 SET CIRCUIT NI-0-0 STATE ON SET CIRCUIT NI-0-0 SERVICE ENABLED SET CIRCUIT CI-0-0.14 STATE ON SET CIRCUIT CI-0-0.15 STATE ON ;SET MODULE X25-ACCESS NODE SCMV1 NETWORK TELENET RETURN $ Understood. Now I've got another problem. The TOPS-10 node goes yo-yo: $ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 9-JUN-2012 13:58:58.19 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user DECNET on BITXOV DECnet event 4.18, adjacency down

13 years, 1 month

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netowrk flapping....

by jeep＠scshome.net

I see these message about every 20 minutes from random nodes. The error message is almost always: "Unexpected packet type" So where do we go from here? -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 01:15 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] netowrk flapping.... On 2012-06-09 07:06, Peter Lothberg wrote: We (all of us with Multinet, I think) see this problem occasionally. AFAIK no one has come up with an adequate explanation, let alone a solution. Let's figure it out. It hapens more or less exaclty every 10 minutes. You can always turn off logging if it bothers you :-) Bob, If someone trying to use the link, they will be unhappy.. (In internet backboone between core routers at 10G or 40G or 100G we started to troubleshoot if the error rate got over 1x10-e13 for a single hop...) I agree. If something is telling you that there is a problem, you should fix the problem, not silence the information. Johnny

13 years, 1 month

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netowrk flapping....

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-06-09 07:06, Peter Lothberg wrote: We (all of us with Multinet, I think) see this problem occasionally. AFAIK no one has come up with an adequate explanation, let alone a solution. Let's figure it out. It hapens more or less exaclty every 10 minutes. You can always turn off logging if it bothers you :-) Bob, If someone trying to use the link, they will be unhappy.. (In internet backboone between core routers at 10G or 40G or 100G we started to troubleshoot if the error rate got over 1x10-e13 for a single hop...) I agree. If something is telling you that there is a problem, you should fix the problem, not silence the information. Johnny

13 years, 1 month

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netowrk flapping....

by roll＠Stupi.SE

We (all of us with Multinet, I think) see this problem occasionally. AFAIK no one has come up with an adequate explanation, let alone a solution. Let's figure it out. It hapens more or less exaclty every 10 minutes. You can always turn off logging if it bothers you :-) Bob, If someone trying to use the link, they will be unhappy.. (In internet backboone between core routers at 10G or 40G or 100G we started to troubleshoot if the error rate got over 1x10-e13 for a single hop...) --Peter

13 years, 1 month

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Introducing myself... and my little network

by roll＠Stupi.SE

1) Defining the permanent node database for both TOPS10 and TOPS20. NCP rejects the DEFINE NODE commands. I guess there is some sort of utility like the one in RSX (CFE) to define the "permanent" node list, but I've not been able to find that one. There is a NIPGEN in TOPS-10 to build a CMD file with the SET NODE commands, but no NIPGEN in TOPS-20 that I've been able to find... T10/T20 has no permanent database, nor does it understand copy, look for a program named nodnam.exe it reads ini:NODNAM.INI and populated the node-name-table.. And nodnam.ini looks like this... define node 1.42 name BIGBOA define node 1.100 name FLETCH define node 1.150 name GLGMSH define node 1.200 name PLINTH define node 1.201 name CRISPS define node 1.202 name NIPPER define node 1.301 name CTEPBA define node 1.302 name XPEH 2) LAT. LAT works fine in TOPS-20. In TOPS-10 LCP tells me LAT is active, but it does not work (does not even announce itself). How do I enable LAT in TOPS-10? Don't knew. 3) And, spealking of LAT... How do I change the service identification in TOPS-20? What do you mean with service identification? The stuff in "sh exec char?" I mean, how do I change it PERMANENTLY? I guess I have to put it in some sort of auto-executing file. SYSTEM.CMD? Something in 7-1-CONFIG.CMD? Again, any pointer to docs would be very appreciated. I don't want to bug you with the thousands of questions I've got :) Right There is nothing permanent, unless you poke it in to the monitr.exe file.... Here's what's on SOL.. type 7-PTYCON.ATO SILENCE NO LOG DEFINE 0 OPR CONN OPR LOGIN OPERATOR FOO OPERATOR OPR TAKE SYSTEM:SYSTEM TAKE SYSTEM:NCP EXIT ;DEFINE SYSTEM: PS:<NEW-SYSTEM>,PS:<SYSTEM> ;SYSTEM:EXEC ^ESET LOGIN ANY ;POP OPR TAKE SYSTEM:UPMSG EXIT LOGOUT ^X EXIT $ type SYSTEM:NCP.CMD ENTER NCP SET KNOWN LOGGING STATE OFF SET EXECUTOR ID "SC40M, Stupi Stockholm, Tops20" SET KNOWN CIRCUIT ROUTER PRIORITY 10 SET CIRCUIT NI-0-0 STATE ON SET CIRCUIT NI-0-0 SERVICE ENABLED SET CIRCUIT CI-0-0.14 STATE ON SET CIRCUIT CI-0-0.15 STATE ON ;SET MODULE X25-ACCESS NODE SCMV1 NETWORK TELENET RETURN $

13 years, 1 month

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Introducing myself... and my little network

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

-----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Bob Armstrong Sent: 08 June 2012 23:58 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: RE: [HECnet] Introducing myself... and my little network On 06/08/2012 03:53 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote: I was once told that a TF series drive might be able to read past the error, but that TKs won't. FWIW, The TFxx drives have DSSI interfaces. The TZ drives are SCSI (e.g. TZ85 or TZ87). The TK drives (TK50, TK70) have DEC proprietary interfaces. A TF8x drive isn't going to do you any good unless you have a MicroVAX with a DSSI controller - Yes, I have two machines with DSSI. a TZ8x drive can at least be connected to any VAX or PDP with SCSI. AFAIK there isn't any difference, other than the interface, between a TF85 and a TZ85, or a TF87 vs TZ87. I don't think there's such a thing as a TK85 or TK87 - DEC dropped the proprietary interface after the TK70s. And I don't think there were any DSSI drives after the TF87. I know I have a TZ85 or TZ87 (maybe even both) somewhere but whether it's any better at reading bad TK50s I won't even speculate. BTW, If anybody has a TF drive that they'd like to swap for a TZ, let me know. I've got a rack of DSSI drives (RF7x and RF3x) that'd love to have a little tape drive for a cousin :-) I too would like to find any TF or RF drives, also would like to find a KFQSA so I can try out my KA655 CPUs. Regards Rob

13 years, 1 month

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Introducing myself... and my little network

by bob＠jfcl.com

On 06/08/2012 03:53 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote: I was once told that a TF series drive might be able to read past the error, but that TKs won't. FWIW, The TFxx drives have DSSI interfaces. The TZ drives are SCSI (e.g. TZ85 or TZ87). The TK drives (TK50, TK70) have DEC proprietary interfaces. A TF8x drive isn't going to do you any good unless you have a MicroVAX with a DSSI controller - a TZ8x drive can at least be connected to any VAX or PDP with SCSI. AFAIK there isn't any difference, other than the interface, between a TF85 and a TZ85, or a TF87 vs TZ87. I don't think there's such a thing as a TK85 or TK87 - DEC dropped the proprietary interface after the TK70s. And I don't think there were any DSSI drives after the TF87. I know I have a TZ85 or TZ87 (maybe even both) somewhere but whether it's any better at reading bad TK50s I won't even speculate. BTW, If anybody has a TF drive that they'd like to swap for a TZ, let me know. I've got a rack of DSSI drives (RF7x and RF3x) that'd love to have a little tape drive for a cousin :-) Bob

13 years, 1 month

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Introducing myself... and my little network

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 06/08/2012 03:53 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote: I have a TK50 cartridge that I have been trying to read for some time, it keeps failing at a single point. I was once told that a TF series drive might be able to read past the error, but that TKs won't. I don't know how much truth there might be to it, but I have been trying to find a TF drive for a long time, they just don't seem to come up. Are they as rare as they seem? I didn't think they were all that rare, but now that you mention it, I have seen many more TK50s and TK70s than Tx85 drives. Not sure why. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

13 years, 1 month

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promiscuous mode, was Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Connections to SG1::

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-06-08 22:07, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:36 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-06-08 21:28, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:18 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: ... If you don't need 16 distinct values, you simply pad the table with extra copies of any of the meaningful values; that way the result is what you want. The easiest way to do that is to make extra copies of the entry that specifies the MAC address, but that isn't necessary, it is mentioned only because it's easy to remember. Right. But there are some interesting passages in the manual. " More than one physical address may be specified, but in Normal mode, only the first is used for receiving datagrams, and as the source address for system ID messages generated by the DELQA. In DEQNA-lock mode the specifications of multiple physical Ethernet addesses will cause the DELQA to filter all such physical Ethernet addesses for packet reception. NOTE Enabling more than one physical address is not recommended under normal circumstances. This may have a substantial impact on performance. " What do you make of that? Johnny Hm. I wonder if the LQA uses a chip that doesn't natively support multiple MAC addresses (LANCE is one such, I think). If so, it would mean that it would have to emulate this QNA feature by setting promiscuous mode on that chip and doing the 16-entry exact filtering in firmware. Well, we *know* that the LQA uses the LANCE, so I guess that answers that question. Sounds reasonable that the LQA emulates the QNA by always placing the ethernet in promiscuous mode, if the QNA works the way you describe. Bummer. That would imply that QNA actually has some benefits over LQA, which I didn't expect. :-) I wonder if "substantial" is actually true. As I mentioned, the multiple individual address feature was introduced to allow LAT not to be broken by DECnet startup, so any OS that starts LAT before DECnet (VMS is one such, I think) would end up with multiple MAC addresses. And since the main reason for LQA was to make Local Area VAXclusters work right, one would assume the performance impact from this mode is not that high, since clusters are rather picky about performance issues. Thinking about it, in combination with what you wrote, I'd say yes, if you really put several physical addresses in the table. However, a) I don't expect VMS to run a LQA in QNA mode when it can perform much better in LQA mode, and b) I don't expect (even on VMS) that LAT is started before DECnet, or that LAT would not survive a change of MAC address after the start. I know that normally I always start LAT after DECnet on my VMS boxen, but on the other hand, there is no place in the provided templates where LAT is started, so it could go anywhere. Johnny

13 years, 1 month

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promiscuous mode, was Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Connections to SG1::

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:36 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-06-08 21:28, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:18 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: ... If you don't need 16 distinct values, you simply pad the table with extra copies of any of the meaningful values; that way the result is what you want. The easiest way to do that is to make extra copies of the entry that specifies the MAC address, but that isn't necessary, it is mentioned only because it's easy to remember. Right. But there are some interesting passages in the manual. " More than one physical address may be specified, but in Normal mode, only the first is used for receiving datagrams, and as the source address for system ID messages generated by the DELQA. In DEQNA-lock mode the specifications of multiple physical Ethernet addesses will cause the DELQA to filter all such physical Ethernet addesses for packet reception. NOTE Enabling more than one physical address is not recommended under normal circumstances. This may have a substantial impact on performance. " What do you make of that? Johnny Hm. I wonder if the LQA uses a chip that doesn't natively support multiple MAC addresses (LANCE is one such, I think). If so, it would mean that it would have to emulate this QNA feature by setting promiscuous mode on that chip and doing the 16-entry exact filtering in firmware. Bummer. That would imply that QNA actually has some benefits over LQA, which I didn't expect. I wonder if "substantial" is actually true. As I mentioned, the multiple individual address feature was introduced to allow LAT not to be broken by DECnet startup, so any OS that starts LAT before DECnet (VMS is one such, I think) would end up with multiple MAC addresses. And since the main reason for LQA was to make Local Area VAXclusters work right, one would assume the performance impact from this mode is not that high, since clusters are rather picky about performance issues. paul

13 years, 1 month

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Introducing myself... and my little network

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I have a TK50 cartridge that I have been trying to read for some time, it keeps failing at a single point. I was once told that a TF series drive might be able to read past the error, but that TKs won't. I don't know how much truth there might be to it, but I have been trying to find a TF drive for a long time, they just don't seem to come up. Are they as rare as they seem? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: 08 June 2012 08:57 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Introducing myself... and my little network On 06/08/2012 03:55 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I haven't tried cleaning TK50 heads in years, but I will (now that I have a more respectable workspace) start trying that. I will let you know how things go. I'll probably start digging into those within the next month or two. Thank you for the suggestion! I take it TK50 tapes won't read in a later drive? They will. TK70 and TK85 (if I remember right) can both read TK50. You also have the TZ30 (I think the name is), which is a TK50 compatible, but smaller drive, with SCSI. The TK85 can read TK50s? I didn't know that! If that's the case, it's likely that the TF85 (DSSI version) may as well, and I have one of those. That may be one more option to get my huge pile of TK50s read. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

13 years, 1 month

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Introducing myself... and my little network

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

Al 08/06/12 08:22, En/na Peter Lothberg ha escrit: I've got also some emulated PDP10 which I've not networked (yet). I'm having trouble plugging into DECNET a TOPS20/Panda machine... If someone could point me to any docs I would appreciate it a lot Does Ethernet-Multicast get set up correclty on your host? Well, after struggling all day with those machines, I've got both the TOPS20 and TOPS10 KHL10 systems visibles from DECNET. So those machines are now in HECnet as nodes 6.78 (BITXT2) and 6.80 (BITXT1). Don't ever try to find logic in my node number assignement. It used to be rational, but right now is a mess... :) To cut the story short, I run the KLH10s inside a virtualbox VM instead of running them in bare metal. Why? Two reasons: for some reason the dte interface gets wedged when I run it on iron, and second, that's the way I can assign a dedicated ethernet adapter for each instance. The problem was that KLH10 failed to set up the interfaces to promiscuous mode, and failed also to change the hardware address. I "fixed" it doing it before firing the emulator, using ifconfig. Now both machines can set up DECNET and it seems to work. Things to be fixed, or learnt yet: 1) Defining the permanent node database for both TOPS10 and TOPS20. NCP rejects the DEFINE NODE commands. I guess there is some sort of utility like the one in RSX (CFE) to define the "permanent" node list, but I've not been able to find that one. There is a NIPGEN in TOPS-10 to build a CMD file with the SET NODE commands, but no NIPGEN in TOPS-20 that I've been able to find... 2) LAT. LAT works fine in TOPS-20. In TOPS-10 LCP tells me LAT is active, but it does not work (does not even announce itself). How do I enable LAT in TOPS-10? 3) And, spealking of LAT... How do I change the service identification in TOPS-20? I mean, how do I change it PERMANENTLY? I guess I have to put it in some sort of auto-executing file. SYSTEM.CMD? Something in 7-1-CONFIG.CMD? Again, any pointer to docs would be very appreciated. I don't want to bug you with the thousands of questions I've got :) 4) A few minutes after startup of TOPS-10. I get the following message at the console: CCPOEF Output error on DSKB:SER001.EXE[10,1], status=40017 It does not seem to have any advert effect, but I'd like to know what's wrong. I've not seen such a message in my KS-based TOPS-10 running under SIMH. Now, I've got to install in the KLH10 TOPS-10 all the stuff I've got... :) That will keep me busy for a while.

13 years, 1 month

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promiscuous mode, was Re: [HECnet] Multinet Tunnel Connections to SG1::

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-06-08 21:28, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:18 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-06-08 19:02, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: ... Thanks for making me re-read the DELQA manual again. :-) You're very welcome! I'm not totally clear on this point. This might be getting a little too technical and offtopic here, but basically, reading the manual, it might appear that having several unicast addresses in the setup might only be respected if you are running your DELQA in DEQNA mode, and the manual warn against potential performance issues if you do this. But I had forgotten quite a lot of the DEQNA/DELQA anyway, including that you were supposed to fill the table with your own address to make it full. Gah! I've never liked the Q-bus ethernet controllers. And they are so buggy... Johnny QNA, yes -- it was abandoned after revision L still didn't work right. LQA is a completely new design that does work, but it is compatible at the driver level with QNA (or nearly so). There are bugs in the LQA as well. But yes, it is a totally different design than the QNA. The address match is really very simple. There are no bugs here... the hardware has a 16 entry table and it accepts packets whenever the DA matches any of the 16 entries (essentially a 16 entry CAM). There are no "valid" bits (as you might find in some more advanced CAMs) so it treats all 16 entries as meaningful addresses. That means you have to fill in all 16. Yes. If you don't need 16 distinct values, you simply pad the table with extra copies of any of the meaningful values; that way the result is what you want. The easiest way to do that is to make extra copies of the entry that specifies the MAC address, but that isn't necessary, it is mentioned only because it's easy to remember. Right. But there are some interesting passages in the manual. " More than one physical address may be specified, but in Normal mode, only the first is used for receiving datagrams, and as the source address for system ID messages generated by the DELQA. In DEQNA-lock mode the specifications of multiple physical Ethernet addesses will cause the DELQA to filter all such physical Ethernet addesses for packet reception. NOTE Enabling more than one physical address is not recommended under normal circumstances. This may have a substantial impact on performance. " What do you make of that? Johnny

13 years, 1 month

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