- HECnet - lists @ Update

by pontus＠update.uu.se

Now, I wish that were true, I could sure use some relaxing burning and pillaging right now. Some time ago, psilo (the bridge) broke down and we replaced the motherboard/CPU/Memory with whatever we had lying around. The motherboard had issues and finally broke down last week. We bought a brand new combo just to find that the new motherboard BIOS wasn't compatible with the specific version of Ivy Bridge CPU we got. And all stores had closed. So today we finally got a new motherboard to match the new CPU and we are back. Remember we are running this out of a closet waiting for the computer room to be fixed. And we can finally get out of, erm, the closet. We are hoping to get things in proper order then, like a failover for the mailing list. cheers, Pontus. On 08/08/2012 11:14 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote: Maybe there's been a pagan revival in Uppsala, some drunken Vikings have decided to take over the University hall and drink to Odin. But that's just my guess as a Finn. Sampsa On 9 Aug 2012, at 00:12, Mark Benson wrote: I'll third that, my hash of destinations basically returns me. I read that as psilo/130.238.19.25 is not receiving my packets? On 8 Aug 2012, at 21:28, Sampsa Laine wrote: Same here. On 8 Aug 2012, at 16:42, Bob Armstrong wrote: I notice that the bridge is down again this morning. Is it just me? Bob -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

12 years, 11 months

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Bridge down??

by drb＠msu.edu

bridge is down again So, kinda new at this, but I think LEGATO can't see other stuff in area 2. Perhaps Bob's bridge<->multinet setup is having trouble? De

12 years, 11 months

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Connectivity problems

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 12 Aug 2012, at 12:21, Mark Wickens wrote: It could quite possibly be a problem at this end, given that SLAVE has not been up for a while... No, I restarted my bridge and I've got nothing outside my local network (again). -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

12 years, 11 months

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Bridge down??

by sampsa＠mac.com

Ah, that's because GORVAX is connected all over the place: NCP>tel gorvax show know circ Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 13-AUG-2012 20:23:38 Circuit State Loopback Adjacent Name Routing Node QNA-0 on TCP-0-19 on 19.41 (SG1) TCP-0-2 on 2.1 (LEGATO) TCP-0-3 on 3.171 (NUK1C) TCP-0-59 on 59.58 (STUPI) TCP-0-6 on -starting Sampsa On 13 Aug 2012, at 20:22, Gregg Levine wrote: On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: But the mailing list is up! Al7amdulilah al rubb al 'alameen. Sampsa On 13 Aug 2012, at 05:40, Oleg Safiullin wrote: On 08/09/2012 07:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-09 09:05, Mark Benson wrote: On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:56, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-08 15:42, Bob Armstrong wrote: I notice that the bridge is down again this morning. Is it just me? Nope. I noticed that Psilo was down, but only now did I recheck and as psilo was back up, I restarted the bridge. I've restarted mine several times and I'm still not getting anything outside my LAN. :\ Hum. So psilo rebooted again a few hours ago... Restarted the bridge right now. Johnny bridge is down again :) -- NCP SHO ACT NOD Active nodes summary as of 13-AUG-12 04:38:59 Executor node = 1.13 (MIM) State = On, Identification = "RSX system at Update, Sweden" Remote Active Next Node State Links Delay Circuit Node 8.400 (GORVAX) 0 4 18.1 (GATE18) 0 4 18.101 (RENO) 0 4 52.555 (LABVAX) 0 4 52.556 (KUHAVX) 0 4 Hello! Well actually Sampsa he did see your machines, which tells something is working. However how many of the rest of us can not see anything else? ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

12 years, 11 months

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Bridge down??

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: But the mailing list is up! Al7amdulilah al rubb al 'alameen. Sampsa On 13 Aug 2012, at 05:40, Oleg Safiullin wrote: On 08/09/2012 07:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-09 09:05, Mark Benson wrote: On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:56, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-08 15:42, Bob Armstrong wrote: I notice that the bridge is down again this morning. Is it just me? Nope. I noticed that Psilo was down, but only now did I recheck and as psilo was back up, I restarted the bridge. I've restarted mine several times and I'm still not getting anything outside my LAN. :\ Hum. So psilo rebooted again a few hours ago... Restarted the bridge right now. Johnny bridge is down again :) -- NCP SHO ACT NOD Active nodes summary as of 13-AUG-12 04:38:59 Executor node = 1.13 (MIM) State = On, Identification = "RSX system at Update, Sweden" Remote Active Next Node State Links Delay Circuit Node 8.400 (GORVAX) 0 4 18.1 (GATE18) 0 4 18.101 (RENO) 0 4 52.555 (LABVAX) 0 4 52.556 (KUHAVX) 0 4 Hello! Well actually Sampsa he did see your machines, which tells something is working. However how many of the rest of us can not see anything else? ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

12 years, 11 months

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Bridge down??

by sampsa＠mac.com

But the mailing list is up! Al7amdulilah al rubb al 'alameen. Sampsa On 13 Aug 2012, at 05:40, Oleg Safiullin wrote: On 08/09/2012 07:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-09 09:05, Mark Benson wrote: On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:56, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-08 15:42, Bob Armstrong wrote: I notice that the bridge is down again this morning. Is it just me? Nope. I noticed that Psilo was down, but only now did I recheck and as psilo was back up, I restarted the bridge. I've restarted mine several times and I'm still not getting anything outside my LAN. :\ Hum. So psilo rebooted again a few hours ago... Restarted the bridge right now. Johnny bridge is down again :) -- NCP SHO ACT NOD Active nodes summary as of 13-AUG-12 04:38:59 Executor node = 1.13 (MIM) State = On, Identification = "RSX system at Update, Sweden" Remote Active Next Node State Links Delay Circuit Node 8.400 (GORVAX) 0 4 18.1 (GATE18) 0 4 18.101 (RENO) 0 4 52.555 (LABVAX) 0 4 52.556 (KUHAVX) 0 4

12 years, 11 months

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Bridge down??

by form＠pdp-11.org.ru

On 08/09/2012 07:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-09 09:05, Mark Benson wrote: On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:56, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-08-08 15:42, Bob Armstrong wrote: I notice that the bridge is down again this morning. Is it just me? Nope. I noticed that Psilo was down, but only now did I recheck and as psilo was back up, I restarted the bridge. I've restarted mine several times and I'm still not getting anything outside my LAN. :\ Hum. So psilo rebooted again a few hours ago... Restarted the bridge right now. Johnny bridge is down again :) -- >NCP SHO ACT NOD Active nodes summary as of 13-AUG-12 04:38:59 Executor node = 1.13 (MIM) State = On, Identification = "RSX system at Update, Sweden" Remote Active Next Node State Links Delay Circuit Node 8.400 (GORVAX) 0 4 18.1 (GATE18) 0 4 18.101 (RENO) 0 4 52.555 (LABVAX) 0 4 52.556 (KUHAVX) 0 4 >

12 years, 11 months

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Sweet, now I can make my Ubuntu boxes look like VMS :)

by sampsa＠mac.com

CDE has been open-sourced: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/09/cde_goes_opensource/

12 years, 11 months

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Connectivity problems

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

Hi guys, Anyone experiencing DECNET/HECNET connecting problems at the moment? I noticed that http://www.update.uu.se/~bqt/hecnet.html is not currently responding. It might be the setup at this end, but I've tried most things although I do appear to have a link through to psilo.update.uu.se: 192.168.1.127 4711 4711 130.238.19.25 4711 3 0 Non-authoritative answer: psilo.update.uu.se canonical name = Psilocybe.update.uu.se. Name: Psilocybe.update.uu.se Address: 130.238.19.25 It could quite possibly be a problem at this end, given that SLAVE has not been up for a while... Regards, Mark

12 years, 11 months

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Is the bridge down again?

by sampsa＠mac.com

Can't get seem to connect to update.. Sampsa

12 years, 11 months

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getting the bridge working on OpenBSD

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

Yeah, I think I had an older copy. Pulled the latest down and it built cleanly other than the MAX redefinition warning and the "openbsd thinks you're a moron for using strcpy()" warning. All appears well as Sampsa can talk to HECnet via a bridge to me tunneled over OpenVPN. Ugly, but functional. :) -brian On 8/10/2012 6:54 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Brian, could you verify that you have the latest version? I did some work to try and get rid of warnings a while back, and even though I'm sure some issues might be because of 64 bit issues, I would have expected some of the warnings you reported to have been fixed already... Johnny On 2012-08-09 21:00, Brian Hechinger wrote: I'm trying to get the bridge built on OpenBSD 5.1 64-bit but it keep segfaulting. Anyone ever get this working? # cc -O2 -Wall -o bridge bridge.c -lpcap bridge.c:65:1: warning: "MAX" redefined In file included from /usr/include/netdb.h:90, from bridge.c:32: /usr/include/sys/param.h:191:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition bridge.c: In function 'add_bridge': bridge.c:241: warning: implicit declaration of function 'inet_aton' bridge.c:263: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 2 has type 'char *' bridge.c:263: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 3 has type 'char *' bridge.c: In function 'add_service': bridge.c:276: warning: format '%s' expects type 'char *', but argument 3 has type 'struct BRIDGE *' bridge.c: In function 'dump_data': bridge.c:524: warning: implicit declaration of function 'inet_ntoa' bridge.c:531: warning: format '%s' expects type 'char *', but argument 4 has type 'int' bridge.c: In function 'main': bridge.c:564: warning: unused variable 'port' bridge.c:561: warning: unused variable 'len' /tmp//cc69aRp2.o(.text+0x934): In function `add_bridge': : warning: strcpy() is almost always misused, please use strlcpy() # cp bridge /var/bridge/ # cd /var/bridge/ # ./bridge 4711 Adding router ''local''. 00000000:0 Adding router ''sampsa''. 0afc2a0a:4711 Adding DECnet bridge local. Trying to match local Matching against: local Found match: local == local Adding DECnet bridge sampsa. Trying to match sampsa Matching against: local Matching against: sampsa Found match: sampsa == sampsa Adding LAT bridge local. Trying to match local Matching against: local Found match: local == local Adding LAT bridge sampsa. Trying to match sampsa Matching against: local Matching against: sampsa Found match: sampsa == sampsa Host table: Segmentation fault (core dumped) -brian

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

What I meant is that the os fit was done in firmware. Not, like the VAX, where the instruction set was designed to match demands from the os. IIRC the queue instructions aren't part of the Alpha instruction set. On or off topic? It's Digital Lore, right :-) -----Original Message----- From: Phil Mendelsohn <phil at rephil.org> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:29:00 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation On 10/08/2012 3:10 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:07 PM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Correct, Windows started off on four platforms so the intimacy of VMS with the VAX was just not there. But VMS was a lot farther away from Alpha too. I don't think that's accurate. Most operating systems are not closely tied to a specific platform. And in the case of VMS, the Alpha architecture had some specific attributes that were meant to make porting VMS easier. I agree. Alpha architecture was done with a posteriori and first-hand internal knowledge of VMS and where it was headed / what it's customers needed. I had a pre-release AXP Architecture Handbook which would confirm, if I could lay my hands on the tree ware. But this is OT, I suppose. Phil M -- "Worry is a misuse of imagination." -- Some Guy Called Dan Zadra

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by phil＠rephil.org

On 10/08/2012 3:10 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:07 PM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Correct, Windows started off on four platforms so the intimacy of VMS with the VAX was just not there. But VMS was a lot farther away from Alpha too. I don't think that's accurate. Most operating systems are not closely tied to a specific platform. And in the case of VMS, the Alpha architecture had some specific attributes that were meant to make porting VMS easier. I agree. Alpha architecture was done with a posteriori and first-hand internal knowledge of VMS and where it was headed / what it's customers needed. I had a pre-release AXP Architecture Handbook which would confirm, if I could lay my hands on the tree ware. But this is OT, I suppose. Phil M -- "Worry is a misuse of imagination." -- Some Guy Called Dan Zadra

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 08/10/2012 05:21 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Try adding -fomit-frame-pointer; that will free up a register, which is pretty important on register-starved architectures such as x86 and x86_64. (depending on your -O<n> level, it might already be turned on though) According to the manpage, that's already the default as of GCC V4.6. I'm currently doing some tests with GCC 4.7.0, the latest release. Cool. But...the default? With no frame pointers, debugging is pretty difficult. I assume it's only enabled with -O[n], and disabled with -g[xxx]? No, but you can enable frame pointers if you need them. Depending on the debugger, you may not need them. For example, MIPS seems to have them in theory, but in practice there is no reason to use them (except if a function calls alloca() in which case GCC forces a frame pointer for that one function). Interesting! I didn't know that. Thanks for the info! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Aug 10, 2012, at 5:06 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 08/10/2012 04:29 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Try adding -fomit-frame-pointer; that will free up a register, which is pretty important on register-starved architectures such as x86 and x86_64. (depending on your -O<n> level, it might already be turned on though) According to the manpage, that's already the default as of GCC V4.6. I'm currently doing some tests with GCC 4.7.0, the latest release. Cool. But...the default? With no frame pointers, debugging is pretty difficult. I assume it's only enabled with -O[n], and disabled with -g[xxx]? No, but you can enable frame pointers if you need them. Depending on the debugger, you may not need them. For example, MIPS seems to have them in theory, but in practice there is no reason to use them (except if a function calls alloca() in which case GCC forces a frame pointer for that one function). paul

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 08/10/2012 04:29 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Try adding -fomit-frame-pointer; that will free up a register, which is pretty important on register-starved architectures such as x86 and x86_64. (depending on your -O<n> level, it might already be turned on though) According to the manpage, that's already the default as of GCC V4.6. I'm currently doing some tests with GCC 4.7.0, the latest release. Cool. But...the default? With no frame pointers, debugging is pretty difficult. I assume it's only enabled with -O[n], and disabled with -g[xxx]? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by neozeed＠gmail.com

oddly enough the Alpha compiler on NT was HORRIBLE... And it had DEC strewn all over its copyrites so I suspect it wasn't a 100% Microsoft thing.. Naturally by the time you could compile with O2 and have the exe actually run properly support for the Alpha was dropped in the Compaq HP acquisition. Even the leaked NT source complained bitterly about the Alpha C compiler.. Oh well it's all ancient history now. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:07 PM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Correct, Windows started off on four platforms so the intimacy of VMS with the VAX was just not there. But VMS was a lot farther away from Alpha too. The reason support for Windows was dropped for all platforms other than IA32 and IA64 indicates that it is too costly if not impossible to engineer. After all these years Windows settled nicely on IA32. What Microsoft probably lacks is DEC's compiler architects. Those guys live with Intel now and performance these days is very much their line of business. It wouldn't surprise me if Intel and Microsoft did do a little bit of joint engineering since 1998. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Mendelsohn <phil at rephil.org> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 13:29:06 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation On 10/08/2012 10:51 AM, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: > Windows is a relative of vms, an ugly cousin but still family. Its growth is stunted, Windows 7 is the fifth version after W 3.5. VMS grew a lot faster, with more (end user) functionalty, more stability during its first two decades. > Even then Windows 5.1 (aka XP) is stable and useful. Vista wasn't then again VMS 6.1 wasn't that mature either... But VMS had the advantage that it and the processor (VAX) that ran it were designed in concert. x86 architecture and Windows are more a case of being cobbled together iteratively and separately. -- "Worry is a misuse of imagination." -- Some Guy Called Dan Zadra

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-08-10 22:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: Correct, Windows started off on four platforms so the intimacy of VMS with the VAX was just not there. But VMS was a lot farther away from Alpha too. The reason support for Windows was dropped for all platforms other than IA32 and IA64 indicates that it is too costly if not impossible to engineer. I don't think that technical issues was the problem. There just wasn't enough of a business case to make it profitable. You don't put the effort into it, if it don't give atleast the money back... What has this to do with HECnet, or DECnet...? :-) Johnny After all these years Windows settled nicely on IA32. What Microsoft probably lacks is DEC's compiler architects. Those guys live with Intel now and performance these days is very much their line of business. It wouldn't surprise me if Intel and Microsoft did do a little bit of joint engineering since 1998. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Mendelsohn <phil at rephil.org> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 13:29:06 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation On 10/08/2012 10:51 AM, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: Windows is a relative of vms, an ugly cousin but still family. Its growth is stunted, Windows 7 is the fifth version after W 3.5. VMS grew a lot faster, with more (end user) functionalty, more stability during its first two decades. Even then Windows 5.1 (aka XP) is stable and useful. Vista wasn't then again VMS 6.1 wasn't that mature either... But VMS had the advantage that it and the processor (VAX) that ran it were designed in concert. x86 architecture and Windows are more a case of being cobbled together iteratively and separately.

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 10/08/2012, a les 22:06, <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> va escriure: I suppose I could try llvm for Linux, I'm not sure if that exists on a Mac. But gcc is what I know. And it seems to do a pretty good job optimizing. For one thing, a lot of people (a number of them Intel employees) have worked hard on the Intel back end. Actually, LLVM is the default compiler in the current version of MacOS :) You could also try the Intel compiler for Linux. It is said it optimizes better than GCC, but I have not benchmarked it myself. paul On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:58 PM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Is gcc the only option you've got Paul? Gcc must satisfy a lot of terget platforms, may be optimal gets defined differently? -----Original Message----- From: <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:37:47 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation Yes, the makefile sets the optimize flags. It tells it to optimize pretty hard, but I'm redoing some tests with a later version. I'm also going to try (first time I've done that) profile directed optimizing. The simh code at one point used inline, but not any longer. It may be relying on recent compilers to do that automaticallly, I'll find out. paul On Aug 10, 2012, at 11:51 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Paul, so the makefile sets the compiler flags, right? So it might be worth figuring out how much effort the compiler puts in optimizing its output. Windows is a relative of vms, an ugly cousin but still family. Its growth is stunted, Windows 7 is the fifth version after W 3.5. VMS grew a lot faster, with more (end user) functionalty, more stability during its first two decades. Even then Windows 5.1 (aka XP) is stable and useful. Vista wasn't then again VMS 6.1 wasn't that mature either... Hans -----Original Message----- From: <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:28:45 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation In my case, gcc with the default makefile. I don't use VC (or the OS it runs on) unless serious force is applied... paul On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:02 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: How was simh compiled? I used Visual C and the difference between running the compiler with optimization on or off made quite a difference for the generated code. And gcc might compile even faster codefiles. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 23:07:24 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation Why is SIMH so slow though? As far as I can understand, one MIPS is roughly one VUPS, correct? So how come I get 14 VUPS on the same host running SIMH whilst my Hercules install peaks at 180? Are the architectures that different (obviously they are) or what is it? Sampsa

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 08/10/2012 04:07 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Yes, the makefile sets the optimize flags. It tells it to optimize pretty hard, but I'm redoing some tests with a later version. I'm also going to try (first time I've done that) profile directed optimizing. The simh code at one point used inline, but not any longer. It may be relying on recent compilers to do that automaticallly, I'll find out. What target architecture are you compiling for? x86_64-linux. And x86_64-darwin. GCC is known to produce very good code for x86_64. I think it might be worth giving LLVM a try, but I don't think you'll get quite the output quality of GCC. Try adding -fomit-frame-pointer; that will free up a register, which is pretty important on register-starved architectures such as x86 and x86_64. (depending on your -O<n> level, it might already be turned on though) According to the manpage, that's already the default as of GCC V4.6. I'm currently doing some tests with GCC 4.7.0, the latest release. paul

12 years, 11 months

1
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AXP Emulation

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 08/10/2012 04:07 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Yes, the makefile sets the optimize flags. It tells it to optimize pretty hard, but I'm redoing some tests with a later version. I'm also going to try (first time I've done that) profile directed optimizing. The simh code at one point used inline, but not any longer. It may be relying on recent compilers to do that automaticallly, I'll find out. What target architecture are you compiling for? x86_64-linux. And x86_64-darwin. GCC is known to produce very good code for x86_64. I think it might be worth giving LLVM a try, but I don't think you'll get quite the output quality of GCC. Try adding -fomit-frame-pointer; that will free up a register, which is pretty important on register-starved architectures such as x86 and x86_64. (depending on your -O<n> level, it might already be turned on though) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:07 PM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Correct, Windows started off on four platforms so the intimacy of VMS with the VAX was just not there. But VMS was a lot farther away from Alpha too. I don't think that's accurate. Most operating systems are not closely tied to a specific platform. And in the case of VMS, the Alpha architecture had some specific attributes that were meant to make porting VMS easier. paul

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

Correct, Windows started off on four platforms so the intimacy of VMS with the VAX was just not there. But VMS was a lot farther away from Alpha too. The reason support for Windows was dropped for all platforms other than IA32 and IA64 indicates that it is too costly if not impossible to engineer. After all these years Windows settled nicely on IA32. What Microsoft probably lacks is DEC's compiler architects. Those guys live with Intel now and performance these days is very much their line of business. It wouldn't surprise me if Intel and Microsoft did do a little bit of joint engineering since 1998. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Mendelsohn <phil at rephil.org> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 13:29:06 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation On 10/08/2012 10:51 AM, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: Windows is a relative of vms, an ugly cousin but still family. Its growth is stunted, Windows 7 is the fifth version after W 3.5. VMS grew a lot faster, with more (end user) functionalty, more stability during its first two decades. Even then Windows 5.1 (aka XP) is stable and useful. Vista wasn't then again VMS 6.1 wasn't that mature either... But VMS had the advantage that it and the processor (VAX) that ran it were designed in concert. x86 architecture and Windows are more a case of being cobbled together iteratively and separately. -- "Worry is a misuse of imagination." -- Some Guy Called Dan Zadra

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 08/10/2012 02:37 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Yes, the makefile sets the optimize flags. It tells it to optimize pretty hard, but I'm redoing some tests with a later version. I'm also going to try (first time I've done that) profile directed optimizing. The simh code at one point used inline, but not any longer. It may be relying on recent compilers to do that automaticallly, I'll find out. What target architecture are you compiling for? x86_64-linux. And x86_64-darwin. paul

12 years, 11 months

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AXP Emulation

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

I suppose I could try llvm for Linux, I'm not sure if that exists on a Mac. But gcc is what I know. And it seems to do a pretty good job optimizing. For one thing, a lot of people (a number of them Intel employees) have worked hard on the Intel back end. paul On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:58 PM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Is gcc the only option you've got Paul? Gcc must satisfy a lot of terget platforms, may be optimal gets defined differently? -----Original Message----- From: <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:37:47 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation Yes, the makefile sets the optimize flags. It tells it to optimize pretty hard, but I'm redoing some tests with a later version. I'm also going to try (first time I've done that) profile directed optimizing. The simh code at one point used inline, but not any longer. It may be relying on recent compilers to do that automaticallly, I'll find out. paul On Aug 10, 2012, at 11:51 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Paul, so the makefile sets the compiler flags, right? So it might be worth figuring out how much effort the compiler puts in optimizing its output. Windows is a relative of vms, an ugly cousin but still family. Its growth is stunted, Windows 7 is the fifth version after W 3.5. VMS grew a lot faster, with more (end user) functionalty, more stability during its first two decades. Even then Windows 5.1 (aka XP) is stable and useful. Vista wasn't then again VMS 6.1 wasn't that mature either... Hans -----Original Message----- From: <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:28:45 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation In my case, gcc with the default makefile. I don't use VC (or the OS it runs on) unless serious force is applied... paul On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:02 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: How was simh compiled? I used Visual C and the difference between running the compiler with optimization on or off made quite a difference for the generated code. And gcc might compile even faster codefiles. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 23:07:24 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] AXP Emulation Why is SIMH so slow though? As far as I can understand, one MIPS is roughly one VUPS, correct? So how come I get 14 VUPS on the same host running SIMH whilst my Hercules install peaks at 180? Are the architectures that different (obviously they are) or what is it? Sampsa

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