- HECnet - lists @ Update

embedded libraries for PDP-11, was Re: [HECnet] DECUS RSX C compiler

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Oct 26, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 10/26/2012 04:52 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: The 2.11BSD lib looks leaner, and I am using it in my pet OS project (I pick the pieces I need "on the run", I have not done a complete port... yet). If the above suggestion doesn't get you anywhere, perhaps avrlibc could be hacked into a PDP-11 library. All of the hardware support will have to be ripped out of course, but there are nice tight implementations of generic library functions in there. I took a look at that. It seems to be largely assembly code, which makes it not very helpful. I've lifted more than a few routines from it, and they've all been C. Guess I just got lucky. Sorry for the false start. No problem. Meanwhile, I'm digging through the rt11 sig tapes from trailing-edge, which seem to have various bits of decus c in them. It's hard to sort out what's what but I ran across a directory full of libc type things in c. So that looks promising. I also found RSTS libc pieces, which is nice for another day... paul

12 years, 9 months

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Area 6 restored

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:56, Brian Hechinger wrote: Who are you? :-P I'm not even sure myself at the moment, why? Is it important? ;) -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

12 years, 9 months

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Area 6 restored

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 10/26/2012 3:08 PM, Mark Benson wrote: Hi, After prolonged downtime, and a major upheaval in my room, including shutting down my Microserver that formally ran 24/7, I have finally got STAR69 running agin and Area 6's routing functioning once more. STAR69 is not running on a RaspberryPi (old 256MB version) and seems to be working normally again. The bridge is also up on the same Linux unit. I bet no-one even noticed, right? ;) Who are you? :-P -brian

12 years, 9 months

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embedded libraries for PDP-11, was Re: [HECnet] DECUS RSX C compiler

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/26/2012 04:52 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: The 2.11BSD lib looks leaner, and I am using it in my pet OS project (I pick the pieces I need "on the run", I have not done a complete port... yet). If the above suggestion doesn't get you anywhere, perhaps avrlibc could be hacked into a PDP-11 library. All of the hardware support will have to be ripped out of course, but there are nice tight implementations of generic library functions in there. I took a look at that. It seems to be largely assembly code, which makes it not very helpful. I've lifted more than a few routines from it, and they've all been C. Guess I just got lucky. Sorry for the false start. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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embedded libraries for PDP-11, was Re: [HECnet] DECUS RSX C compiler

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Oct 22, 2012, at 3:32 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: ... The 2.11BSD lib looks leaner, and I am using it in my pet OS project (I pick the pieces I need "on the run", I have not done a complete port... yet). If the above suggestion doesn't get you anywhere, perhaps avrlibc could be hacked into a PDP-11 library. All of the hardware support will have to be ripped out of course, but there are nice tight implementations of generic library functions in there. I took a look at that. It seems to be largely assembly code, which makes it not very helpful. paul

12 years, 9 months

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Area 6 restored

by md.benson＠gmail.com

Hi, After prolonged downtime, and a major upheaval in my room, including shutting down my Microserver that formally ran 24/7, I have finally got STAR69 running agin and Area 6's routing functioning once more. STAR69 is not running on a RaspberryPi (old 256MB version) and seems to be working normally again. The bridge is also up on the same Linux unit. I bet no-one even noticed, right? ;) -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/23/2012 08:37 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I might be able to find a Qbus SCSI host adapter, but I those seem to run quite a bit on ebay, but I have other resources (that don't seem to have anything DEC ) They are expensive, but they're well worth having if you can scrape together the bucks. I think it'd be cheaper for me to find some DSSI drives. (Or add a DSSI <-----> SCSI adapter in to the mix ) Well, trouble is, they're drying up fast. Think I could make a VAX work with iSCSI? ;) That's an idea! Would be easier on a weekend due to my eyesight making me unable to drive, so i'd need someone to drive me there. Although I have a few friends a little ways from Pittsburgh who might be able to help in some way. Me getting there directly is a bit challenging, both due to my eyesight and possibly being the youngest here ;). Understood. I generally don't differentiate much between weekdays and weekends, so either is fine for me. (You have no idea how hard it is to get this working in a VM ). Oh yes I do. ;) I virtualized a gaggle of SCO OpenServer machines for a customer about two years ago, using VMware. Oh man that was a mess...VMware was the only virtualization platform that would work, and even that took some doing. They're all still running, though, but now on VERY different hardware. :-) At least it's not Hyper-V I couldn't get anything to run in Hyper-V save for windows. And not even NT 4! Eeeeeek! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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Leaving HECnet

by marc＠bluevine.net

Ah, I don't know anything about Multinet. Is there a reason why you can't use the bridge in that case? The bridge program probably would have worked better, but since I'm shutting down the server hosting these virtual machines (along with a couple Solaris VMs, a Linux VM, and a Windows VM), it's easier just to keep the stuff offline except for the rare times when I might need to boot up a VMS or PDP-11 system. (Given the amount of times I've accessed the systems in the past year, I suspect that it's more about archiving them for reference.) --Marc

12 years, 9 months

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Leaving HECnet

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

-----Original Message----- From: Marc Chametzky [mailto:marc at bluevine.net] Sent: 25 October 2012 20:53 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Cc: Rob Jarratt Subject: Re: [HECnet] Leaving HECnet Can you explain a little more about the randomization of the source port number? I might be being stupid here, but I don't see what problem that would cause, the bridge runs over UDP. Or are you talking about some other way of tunnelling DECnet over IP? I'm not using the bridge program. I'm using MultiNet's DECnet-over-IP circuit. It sends packets to the remote system over UDP on port 700. The problem is that its source port is also 700. My firewall randomizes the source port for security reasons and is not configurable in that regard. When the destination system receives packets from my network, it drops them because they don't have the right source port. --Marc Ah, I don't know anything about Multinet. Is there a reason why you can't use the bridge in that case? Regards Rob

12 years, 9 months

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Leaving HECnet

by marc＠bluevine.net

Can you explain a little more about the randomization of the source port number? I might be being stupid here, but I don't see what problem that would cause, the bridge runs over UDP. Or are you talking about some other way of tunnelling DECnet over IP? I'm not using the bridge program. I'm using MultiNet's DECnet-over-IP circuit. It sends packets to the remote system over UDP on port 700. The problem is that its source port is also 700. My firewall randomizes the source port for security reasons and is not configurable in that regard. When the destination system receives packets from my network, it drops them because they don't have the right source port. --Marc

12 years, 9 months

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Leaving HECnet

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

-----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Marc Chametzky Sent: 25 October 2012 19:49 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: [HECnet] Leaving HECnet I'm working on consolidating my system and as part of this, I'm getting rid of my ESXi server that's running my virtual systems. I'm going to move them to my file server where I'll simply run them on demand from my Mac. I thought about keeping HECnet around, but given that my connectivity hasn't been working anyway due to my firewall's insistence on randomizing the source port number for the DECnet-over-IP circuit, I think I'm just going to drop off at this point. Plus, I don't know when I'd be back online again in the future once I shut the server down. The affected nodes to be removed are 19.300 through 19.304. Thanks so much for letting me hang around. I still love the idea of a hobbyist DECnet. :-) --Marc Marc, Can you explain a little more about the randomization of the source port number? I might be being stupid here, but I don't see what problem that would cause, the bridge runs over UDP. Or are you talking about some other way of tunnelling DECnet over IP? Regards Rob

12 years, 9 months

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Leaving HECnet

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/25/2012 02:49 PM, Marc Chametzky wrote: I'm working on consolidating my system and as part of this, I'm getting rid of my ESXi server that's running my virtual systems. I'm going to move them to my file server where I'll simply run them on demand from my Mac. I thought about keeping HECnet around, but given that my connectivity hasn't been working anyway due to my firewall's insistence on randomizing the source port number for the DECnet-over-IP circuit, I think I'm just going to drop off at this point. Plus, I don't know when I'd be back online again in the future once I shut the server down. The affected nodes to be removed are 19.300 through 19.304. Thanks so much for letting me hang around. I still love the idea of a hobbyist DECnet. :-) :-( -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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Leaving HECnet

by marc＠bluevine.net

I'm working on consolidating my system and as part of this, I'm getting rid of my ESXi server that's running my virtual systems. I'm going to move them to my file server where I'll simply run them on demand from my Mac. I thought about keeping HECnet around, but given that my connectivity hasn't been working anyway due to my firewall's insistence on randomizing the source port number for the DECnet-over-IP circuit, I think I'm just going to drop off at this point. Plus, I don't know when I'd be back online again in the future once I shut the server down. The affected nodes to be removed are 19.300 through 19.304. Thanks so much for letting me hang around. I still love the idea of a hobbyist DECnet. :-) --Marc

12 years, 9 months

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Possible downtime on the 7:th of nov

by pontus＠update.uu.se

Hi MIM and psilo will likely loose network connectivity sometime during the 7:th of november due to maintenance in the building. Regards, Pontus.

12 years, 9 months

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Re: HECNet

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I installed it fine too, I just couldn t get it to actually do anything. Regards Rob From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: 24 October 2012 23:37 To: hecnet at update.uu.se Subject: [HECnet] Re: HECNet Well the package installs fine, I am just waiting on an email from Johnny Billquist with the info I need. On Wednesday, October 24, 2012, Rob Jarratt wrote: I could never get that package to work on Debian. I am not an expert in matters Linux, but if you can share your experiences it might be useful when I have another go at some point. Thanks Rob From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: 24 October 2012 21:25 To: hecnet at update.uu.se Subject: [HECnet] HECNet Well, I have been a lurker long enough, I have the router setup on Linux, and ready to install the apt-get install dnet-progs pkg. Robbie Moran

12 years, 9 months

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HECNet

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 25/10/2012, a les 0:33, Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> va escriure: I could never get that package to work on Debian. I am not an expert in matters Linux, but if you can share your experiences it might be useful when I have another go at some point. No (big) problems here, running Ubuntu, which is debian based... The routing stuff does not work until you recompile your kernel. And you will want to have Alexey Kuznetsov's iproute2 package. I'm not sure if that one installs by default... Be advised that level 2 (area) routing does not seem to work at all. Oh, and I have go occasional kernel oopses connecting to the linux box using CTERM... :) Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

12 years, 9 months

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Re: HECNet

by lotec25＠gmail.com

Well the package installs fine, I am just waiting on an email from Johnny Billquist with the info I need. On Wednesday, October 24, 2012, Rob Jarratt wrote: I could never get that package to work on Debian. I am not an expert in matters Linux, but if you can share your experiences it might be useful when I have another go at some point. Thanks Rob From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: 24 October 2012 21:25 To: hecnet at update.uu.se Subject: [HECnet] HECNet Well, I have been a lurker long enough, I have the router setup on Linux, and ready to install the apt-get install dnet-progs pkg. Robbie Moran

12 years, 9 months

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HECNet

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I could never get that package to work on Debian. I am not an expert in matters Linux, but if you can share your experiences it might be useful when I have another go at some point. Thanks Rob From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: 24 October 2012 21:25 To: hecnet at update.uu.se Subject: [HECnet] HECNet Well, I have been a lurker long enough, I have the router setup on Linux, and ready to install the apt-get install dnet-progs pkg. Robbie Moran

12 years, 9 months

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HECNet

by lotec25＠gmail.com

Well, I have been a lurker long enough, I have the router setup on Linux, and ready to install the apt-get install dnet-progs pkg. Robbie Moran

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 10/23/2012 8:37 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Think I could make a VAX work with iSCSI? ;) I've been wanting something like this forever. I've never found any SCSI-iSCSI bridges that weren't insanely priced though and of course so such thing exists for DSSI. :) -brian

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions

by jeep＠scshome.net

Cory, I run the Eastern US Backbone connection for HECnet. This end supports Dynamic-IP addressing via Multinet Tunnels. If you can get Multinet running on a physical (or virtual) VAX (or Alpha) then you can connect to this site (bridge.declab.org) (or bridge.hecnet.org). -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 16:06 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: [HECnet] DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions Was anyone ever crazy enough to try to implement any DECnet bits for 4.3BSD? I doubt it was very highly demanded, thus the "crazy" bit. I'd consider trying to implement it myself, but I don't know C, BSD internals, or in-depth DECnet info and the craziest I've done is gotten a crippled Perl 5 built on Quasijarus. (while i'm on that topic, anyone ever manage to build autoconf/automake on 4.3BSD?) My eventual end goal is to build irssi on 4.3BSD and ignoring the fact it's pretty much impossible. I'm having trouble finding good documentation for latest TOPS-10 and TOPS-20, anyone know of links off hand? I'd like to get more familiar with them. Also, how would I go about configuring DECnet on TOPS-20? (using pre-built panda, grab me some good manuals and some product tape images and I can roll my own if need be). I suck at google and I get a lot of "top" lists every time I try to find TOPS-10/TOPS-20 stuff... Yeah, I don't know everything about all of DEC's older stuff, but I like learning my way around, I just need good resources...and an explanation of the document naming conventions. Also, it's probably better I mention connecting here so all the crazy solutions get mentioned. Dynamic IP, located in Ohio, US. I have several spare UNIX systems to run a bridge on, and I would prefer to get several systems connected (what area should I use? I'll get back with node names...once I figure out how to change them in RSTS/E and TOPS-20) I'm not very good with using emacs, maybe I should just stick with a more basic editor. Or find a better terminal emulator...I don't have any real DEC terminals or any real DEC hardware...yet. Apologies if any of my questions are a bit annoying or anything. Thanks! -- Cory

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions

by b4＠gewt.net

On Oct 23, 2012, at 8:14 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/23/2012 06:55 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: On-topic, if you're hurting for VAXen, I can free up a 4000-series machine. Mmm, I think i'd do better here than finding a VAX on ebay, There are more VAXen here than on eBay. ;) which 4000-series model in particular? I have...many. I'll have to check to be more specific. I also have several desktop VAXen, like 3100 series machines. I have some 4000/60s and 4000/90s, but I'll be hanging onto those. Also do you happen to have drives for one? All I have spare are some 16G 5.25" SCA SCSI drives + adapters for fast SCSI. Also, if you happen to have any adapters for MMJ as I don't have any real terminals, that'd be nice, too. Well these would generally use DSSI drives, unless you can score a Qbus SCSI host adapter. I might be able to free up one DSSI drive, but that'd cost you...they're drying up fast, and I've got machines to keep running. I might be able to find a Qbus SCSI host adapter, but I those seem to run quite a bit on ebay, but I have other resources (that don't seem to have anything DEC ) I think it'd be cheaper for me to find some DSSI drives. (Or add a DSSI <-----> SCSI adapter in to the mix ) Think I could make a VAX work with iSCSI? ;) I can spare you an MMJ adapter or two. Off toppic, and off the top of my head, probably a dozen racks' worth of comparatively recent Sun hardware. And Crays. These would involve some serious swappage, though. Have any pentium-era systems? I need something to run Slackware 4.0 on for openlook. Maybe, but I've never been much into PC hardware...200+ machines here and maybe six of them are PCs. We'll see what we can dig up, though. Clean out your car and pick a weekend, man! (or a weekday..) My lady's a chef; I'll sweet-talk her into whipping us up something tasty. Would be easier on a weekend due to my eyesight making me unable to drive, so i'd need someone to drive me there. Although I have a few friends a little ways from Pittsburgh who might be able to help in some way. Me getting there directly is a bit challenging, both due to my eyesight and possibly being the youngest here ;). (You have no idea how hard it is to get this working in a VM ). Oh yes I do. ;) I virtualized a gaggle of SCO OpenServer machines for a customer about two years ago, using VMware. Oh man that was a mess...VMware was the only virtualization platform that would work, and even that took some doing. They're all still running, though, but now on VERY different hardware. :-) At least it's not Hyper-V I couldn't get anything to run in Hyper-V save for windows. And not even NT 4! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/23/2012 06:55 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: On-topic, if you're hurting for VAXen, I can free up a 4000-series machine. Mmm, I think i'd do better here than finding a VAX on ebay, There are more VAXen here than on eBay. ;) which 4000-series model in particular? I have...many. I'll have to check to be more specific. I also have several desktop VAXen, like 3100 series machines. I have some 4000/60s and 4000/90s, but I'll be hanging onto those. Also do you happen to have drives for one? All I have spare are some 16G 5.25" SCA SCSI drives + adapters for fast SCSI. Also, if you happen to have any adapters for MMJ as I don't have any real terminals, that'd be nice, too. Well these would generally use DSSI drives, unless you can score a Qbus SCSI host adapter. I might be able to free up one DSSI drive, but that'd cost you...they're drying up fast, and I've got machines to keep running. I can spare you an MMJ adapter or two. Off toppic, and off the top of my head, probably a dozen racks' worth of comparatively recent Sun hardware. And Crays. These would involve some serious swappage, though. Have any pentium-era systems? I need something to run Slackware 4.0 on for openlook. Maybe, but I've never been much into PC hardware...200+ machines here and maybe six of them are PCs. We'll see what we can dig up, though. Clean out your car and pick a weekend, man! (or a weekday..) My lady's a chef; I'll sweet-talk her into whipping us up something tasty. (You have no idea how hard it is to get this working in a VM ). Oh yes I do. ;) I virtualized a gaggle of SCO OpenServer machines for a customer about two years ago, using VMware. Oh man that was a mess...VMware was the only virtualization platform that would work, and even that took some doing. They're all still running, though, but now on VERY different hardware. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions

by b4＠gewt.net

On 23 Oct 2012, at 18:23, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/23/2012 01:46 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Also, it's probably better I mention connecting here so all the crazy solutions get mentioned. Dynamic IP, located in Ohio, US. I have several spare UNIX systems to run a bridge on, and I would prefer to get several systems connected (what area should I use? I'll get back with node names once I figure out how to change them in RSTS/E and TOPS-20) I'm not very good with using emacs, maybe I should just stick with a more basic editor. Or find a better terminal emulator I don't have any real DEC terminals or any real DEC hardware yet. Where in Ohio? I'm in western PA, just a hair northeast of Pittsburgh. Near Columbus. Ahh ok, so 3-3.5hrs out. Not too bad. I can hook you up with some hardware. I have, erm, a bit of a surplus at the moment. What do you have as surplus? Good heavens, that's a loaded question. ;) On-topic, if you're hurting for VAXen, I can free up a 4000-series machine. Mmm, I think i'd do better here than finding a VAX on ebay, which 4000-series model in particular? Also do you happen to have drives for one? All I have spare are some 16G 5.25" SCA SCSI drives + adapters for fast SCSI. Also, if you happen to have any adapters for MMJ as I don't have any real terminals, that'd be nice, too. Depending on which model, that'd be better than the VAXservers/VAXstations I've found. Off toppic, and off the top of my head, probably a dozen racks' worth of comparatively recent Sun hardware. And Crays. These would involve some serious swappage, though. Have any pentium-era systems? I need something to run Slackware 4.0 on for openlook. (You have no idea how hard it is to get this working in a VM ). -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet on 4.3BSD/TOPS-20 and other questions

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/23/2012 01:46 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Also, it's probably better I mention connecting here so all the crazy solutions get mentioned. Dynamic IP, located in Ohio, US. I have several spare UNIX systems to run a bridge on, and I would prefer to get several systems connected (what area should I use? I'll get back with node names once I figure out how to change them in RSTS/E and TOPS-20) I'm not very good with using emacs, maybe I should just stick with a more basic editor. Or find a better terminal emulator I don't have any real DEC terminals or any real DEC hardware yet. Where in Ohio? I'm in western PA, just a hair northeast of Pittsburgh. Near Columbus. Ahh ok, so 3-3.5hrs out. Not too bad. I can hook you up with some hardware. I have, erm, a bit of a surplus at the moment. What do you have as surplus? Good heavens, that's a loaded question. ;) On-topic, if you're hurting for VAXen, I can free up a 4000-series machine. Off toppic, and off the top of my head, probably a dozen racks' worth of comparatively recent Sun hardware. And Crays. These would involve some serious swappage, though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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