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DECnet compatibility update

by HECNET＠beyondthepale.ie

I can successfully connect from a VAX (4000-700a) running VMS v7.3 to the PDP-11/53 (again, running RSTS/E v10.1) via: $ set host/appl=rterm 61.4 Terminal control is a bit wonky, but it works. This is what crashes from the Alpha running VMS v8.3. I can also add that $ set host/appl=rterm 61.4 crashes out in a similar way on an Alpha running V8.2. However, it can be used to successfully connect to a VAX running VAX/VMS V5.5-2. On the other hand, VAX/VMS V5.5-2 does not have the /APPLICATION qualifier to SET HOST so outgoing RTERM connections are not possible from it. Regards, Peter Coghlan.

12 years, 9 months

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PDP-11 other thoughts

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

Hello! I went back to that same Wikipedia page, cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11 and making my way further down and after the PDT-11 family I found that crowd: SBC 11/21 (boardname KXT11) Falcon and Falcon Plus single board computer on a Qbus card implementing the basic PDP-11 instruction set, based on T11 chipset containing 32 KB static RAM, two ROM sockets, three serial lines, 20 bit parallel I/O, three interval timers and a two-channel DMA controller. Up to 14 Falcons could be placed into one Qbus system. KXJ11 QBUS card (M7616) with PDP-11 based peripheral processor and DMA controller. Based on a J11 CPU equipped with 512 kB RAM, 64 kB ROM and parallel and serial interfaces. What I am thinking of is taking one of each and putting them into a card cage. Of course the other issue that's, ah, fuzzy at best, is finding them. The page also shows individual processors, the F-11 or the J-11 ones. Again group I am only thinking here. The incredibly big problem is still the obvious, that of finding them, and then a card cage. And no I've not even got a basket of clews here to explain where I am going with this one. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by wilson＠dbit.com

From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> JOHN! You're alive! How have you been? Totally sidetracked with scatterbrained hardware projects! (Anyone who hasn't at least *looked* at the XMOS XS1 microcontroller has been WASTING THEIR LIFE! They are exceedingly cool, and perfect for bit-banging weird things like old DEC busses.) Clearly I've been missing a lot of fun HECnet chatter. How's life with you? I'm just accustomed to RSTS/E and RSX-11M, "big" OSs. Little ones don't really do much for me. That's all. Actually I have the same bias, so adjusting to RT after an earlier RSTS life was a shock, but the way the tiny pieces fit together is really beautiful. .READC/.WRITC and .SPND/.RSUM are trivially simple but getting the same functionality on a supposedly "modern" OS is such a pain... John Wilson D Bit

12 years, 9 months

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DECnet compatibility update

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I can successfully connect from a VAX (4000-700a) running VMS v7.3 to the PDP-11/53 (again, running RSTS/E v10.1) via: $ set host/appl=rterm 61.4 Terminal control is a bit wonky, but it works. This is what crashes from the Alpha running VMS v8.3. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Some more machine porn: Burroughs B80 (14" disk drive not visible): http://www.neurotica.com/misc/DECporn/DSC_0791.JPG Burroughs card-based accounting machine (100% mechanical!): http://www.neurotica.com/misc/DECporn/DSC_0792.JPG Data General S/280, with DEC LA120 and IBM 029 keypunch: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/DECporn/DSC_0793.JPG And some non-computer-related geeky pics, since a friend asked me for some quick pics of my electronics lab: Test bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0796.JPG Rest of test bench (mostly RF gear): http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0797.JPG Soldering bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0798.JPG Close-up of soldering bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0799.JPG Optical bench: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0801.JPG Electronic component stocks: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0802.JPG Calibration and reference standards, electronics chemicals: (hmm, and an thermal imaging camera, that's where that went!) http://www.neurotica.com/misc/LabPics/DSC_0803.JPG -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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by fcoffey＠misernet.net

Hi all Got word from Steve Davidson in NH (USA) that he is without Internet access most likely due to what is left of Sandy. He'll advise when he's back on the "air". Fred ---- Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:06 AM, John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> wrote: From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> I had a PDT-11/150 many years ago, mid-80s. It was kinda fun, but also kinda pointless. The only thing you can run on it is RT-11. I had one too back then and had a blast! RT-11 is terrific (infinitely better than contemporary microcomputer OSes), and anyway a 150 will run pretty much anything an 11/03 will run (but with 30 KW of memory instead of just 28) so it's really pretty flexible. I wrote a FORTH-79 system on mine (including a stand-alone 4-user version with a blinky NULJOB display on the two LEDs), and a PDP-8 cross-assembler, and one side of a two-user "pong" game that worked over the modem, and ported Small-C to it, and did a zillion other things I don't even remember. Something or other with a Microsoft serial mouse plugged into the modem port? It was such a great machine!!! John Wilson D Bit Hello! Actually, Dave, and you too John, those are two of many reasons why I'd give one of my lives for finding one of those things. I naturally have other reasons that're too numerous to mention. In fact I have to updated my website at http://www.gregg.levine,name which insists that on the equipment wanted page its just the PDP-11/23 and the PDP-11/53 who're wearing those interesting features, to now include one of those little devils. For example Dave if you come across the guts to actually build one of the PDT-11/150 and such like but have nothing for it to do then I'll be glad to accept it, of course there are other issues a foot. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by jeep＠scshome.net

Yes. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of sampsa at mac.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 22:34 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: [HECnet] RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1 Has anyone actually managed to get this to work (i.e. RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1)? :) Sampsa

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/30/2012 01:36 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I would kill for a VT180, I don't know why I like CP/M machines but that would just make such an awesome OPA0 for CHIMPY I'm kinda shocked to see that you wouldn't be able to run NetBSD /on/ a VT180 ;) Z80...no MMU, 16-bit address space Ah, right. I keep forgetting how old the Z80 actually is and the fact it doesn't offer too much in the way of anything beyond small embedded stuff now. And lots of VERY enjoyable retrocomputing. Hmmm, I've been reminded of that project someone accomplished once: simh + a phone + a vt100. But instead someone could go: simh + raspberry pi + VT180 ;). Hide the pi within the cabinet, implement a little piece of software to go between simh and a real serial interface (or can simh interface directly now?) and run VMS "in" a VT180. That's certainly doable. With most any of the VT family, I'd say. Was CP/M in ROM on the VT180? Nope, booted from 5.25" floppy from an RX180 disk subsystem. You'll be able to see one when you come visit, though I can't find the floppy cable. Aww, shame you can't find the cable. :( Yeah. I have the pinout, and it's DC37<->DC37, which I should have some of somewhere, so I will make one if it comes down to that. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by b4＠gewt.net

On 30 Oct 2012, at 15:39, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/30/2012 03:36 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Sent some emails your way, let me know if your spam filters thought I was spam and they didn't reach you. (I don't want to see bothersome about this, I just don't trust spam filters to not consider me a false-positive. It's happened before with gmail and others which is interesting because I use google apps for email...) Yup, got 'em, all is well, just busy today. I'll get caught up in a few hours. Okay, cool. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/30/2012 03:36 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Sent some emails your way, let me know if your spam filters thought I was spam and they didn't reach you. (I don't want to see bothersome about this, I just don't trust spam filters to not consider me a false-positive. It's happened before with gmail and others which is interesting because I use google apps for email...) Yup, got 'em, all is well, just busy today. I'll get caught up in a few hours. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by b4＠gewt.net

On 30 Oct 2012, at 03:53, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: On Oct 30, 2012, at 3:40 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/30/2012 03:01 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Come bring me some good trading fodder and you can take home a VAXstation. I have a feeling you'd want something more valuable than an iPad 2 + bluetooth keyboardcase. ;) Perhaps not...are you looking to unload the iPad? I'd hook you up with a sweet system for that. Yeah, I'll part with the iPad. Don't have much use for it now save for as a musical instrument. I can include 2 keyboards, one docked and one Bluetooth. 2 cases as well, keyboard is built in to one of them. Wall charger and sync cable included. Hell, I still have the box... Hmmm. Ok. Let's take this off-list. (tomorrow...about to crash here) Yeah, okay. Tomorrow. Sent some emails your way, let me know if your spam filters thought I was spam and they didn't reach you. (I don't want to see bothersome about this, I just don't trust spam filters to not consider me a false-positive. It's happened before with gmail and others which is interesting because I use google apps for email...) Have any interest in a USB/eSATA SATA drive dock? Nope. Unfortunately, all that remains is the keyboard and processor. And 6G of laptop DDR3. It was a fairly broken laptop. I /might/ still have the display, too. That's, umm, not terribly useful. ;) What happened to it?? It had several issues. The power system was touchy...it would be fine for months, then it would sometimes endlessly turn itself on and off (for a better description I'd need to consult logs...it's been awhile), graphics would glitch, disc drive loved oftentimes not working, it couldn't boot from USB CDROM. It couldn't do hardware-assisted virt, the NIC might not have been GigE, short battery life. It wasn't very old either... Even more amusing? It was a product model that did not exist. The model did not appear on the manufacturer's website. So I scrapped it for useful parts. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/30/2012 05:47 AM, Sampsa Laine wrote: I would kill for a VT180, I don't know why I like CP/M machines but that would just make such an awesome OPA0 for CHIMPY... You like CP/M machines because they ROCK. That's all there is to it. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/30/2012 05:19 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: You can alternatively look for a VT103 as well, since that is pretty much the same thing as a PDT-11/130. If you do some wiring on the Qbus backplane, you can do 22-bit. Throw in an 11/93 CPU, SCSI and what else, and you'll have an awesome system in a VT100 body. This is probably a better idea, but it will likely need some beefing-up of the power supply. The power supply in a VT103 is a bit underpowered for bigger hardware. It can be done, though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by sampsa＠mac.com

I've got an Intertec Superbrain sitting around on my desk in London but no software for it - that'd make a pretty nifty OPA0 too I think. I think the drives are fubar'd though and they're some weird quad density format, so I thought I'd _carefully_ disassemble the machine and put like a modern machine into the casing, booting into some souped up CP/M emulation thingie... On 30 Oct 2012, at 19:36, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Oct 30, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/30/2012 01:26 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I would kill for a VT180, I don't know why I like CP/M machines but that would just make such an awesome OPA0 for CHIMPY I'm kinda shocked to see that you wouldn't be able to run NetBSD /on/ a VT180 ;) Z80...no MMU, 16-bit address space Ah, right. I keep forgetting how old the Z80 actually is and the fact it doesn't offer too much in the way of anything beyond small embedded stuff now. Hmmm, I've been reminded of that project someone accomplished once: simh + a phone + a vt100. But instead someone could go: simh + raspberry pi + VT180 ;). Hide the pi within the cabinet, implement a little piece of software to go between simh and a real serial interface (or can simh interface directly now?) and run VMS "in" a VT180. Was CP/M in ROM on the VT180? Nope, booted from 5.25" floppy from an RX180 disk subsystem. You'll be able to see one when you come visit, though I can't find the floppy cable. Aww, shame you can't find the cable. :( -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by b4＠gewt.net

On Oct 30, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/30/2012 01:26 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I would kill for a VT180, I don't know why I like CP/M machines but that would just make such an awesome OPA0 for CHIMPY I'm kinda shocked to see that you wouldn't be able to run NetBSD /on/ a VT180 ;) Z80...no MMU, 16-bit address space Ah, right. I keep forgetting how old the Z80 actually is and the fact it doesn't offer too much in the way of anything beyond small embedded stuff now. Hmmm, I've been reminded of that project someone accomplished once: simh + a phone + a vt100. But instead someone could go: simh + raspberry pi + VT180 ;). Hide the pi within the cabinet, implement a little piece of software to go between simh and a real serial interface (or can simh interface directly now?) and run VMS "in" a VT180. Was CP/M in ROM on the VT180? Nope, booted from 5.25" floppy from an RX180 disk subsystem. You'll be able to see one when you come visit, though I can't find the floppy cable. Aww, shame you can't find the cable. :( -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/30/2012 01:26 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I would kill for a VT180, I don't know why I like CP/M machines but that would just make such an awesome OPA0 for CHIMPY I'm kinda shocked to see that you wouldn't be able to run NetBSD /on/ a VT180 ;) Z80...no MMU, 16-bit address space... Was CP/M in ROM on the VT180? Nope, booted from 5.25" floppy from an RX180 disk subsystem. You'll be able to see one when you come visit, though I can't find the floppy cable. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by marc＠bluevine.net

On 10/30/12 1:32 AM, Marc Chametzky wrote: Very interesting... and quite different from the way I did it way back when. Whoops, I remembered last night that the technique of generating a PAKGEN license wouldn't work with the Macro-32 file I sent you. That was a different licensing hack. I think I had patched LMF.EXE to generate my own licenses once upon a time. But, that was ages ago. --Marc

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by b4＠gewt.net

On Oct 30, 2012, at 5:47 AM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 11:19, Johnny Billquist wrote: You can alternatively look for a VT103 as well, since that is pretty much the same thing as a PDT-11/130. If you do some wiring on the Qbus backplane, you can do 22-bit. Throw in an 11/93 CPU, SCSI and what else, and you'll have an awesome system in a VT100 body. Johnny I would kill for a VT180, I don't know why I like CP/M machines but that would just make such an awesome OPA0 for CHIMPY I'm kinda shocked to see that you wouldn't be able to run NetBSD /on/ a VT180 ;) Was CP/M in ROM on the VT180?

12 years, 9 months

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embedded libraries for PDP-11, was Re: [HECnet] DECUS RSX C compiler

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 22/10/2012, a les 21:32, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> va escriure: The 2.11BSD lib looks leaner, and I am using it in my pet OS project (I pick the pieces I need "on the run", I have not done a complete port... yet). If the above suggestion doesn't get you anywhere, perhaps avrlibc could be hacked into a PDP-11 library. All of the hardware support will have to be ripped out of course, but there are nice tight implementations of generic library functions in there Doing an unrelated search, I've found this: http://pdclib.e43.eu I have to take a closer look, but it seems promising. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 30 Oct 2012, at 11:19, Johnny Billquist wrote: You can alternatively look for a VT103 as well, since that is pretty much the same thing as a PDT-11/130. If you do some wiring on the Qbus backplane, you can do 22-bit. Throw in an 11/93 CPU, SCSI and what else, and you'll have an awesome system in a VT100 body. Johnny I would kill for a VT180, I don't know why I like CP/M machines but that would just make such an awesome OPA0 for CHIMPY...

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-10-30 04:58, Dave McGuire wrote: On 10/29/2012 11:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Yeah, archiving this stuff would be a great idea. Dump them all in a format we'll all be able to read in a few years and store it on say, amazon glacier. Who would want anything less than advertised eleven nines for storing email? I dunno, I'd want something more than storing it on someone else's hardware. Especially when that someone else is a huge corporation, subject to corporate whims. Your data could go away at any time. Well, We are running a network of computers... It would seem to me it would make way more sense to have such an archive available on our computers... Johnny

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-10-30 04:47, sampsa at mac.com wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 05:46, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: On Oct 29, 2012, at 11:41 PM, sampsa at mac.com wrote: God I love this mailing list, I have no idea of half the stuff people are talking about, but it's all nifty. I expected this mailing list to be less helpful with regards to my noob questions, I was pleasantly surprised. I've learned quite a bit from this mailing list in a short while. ;) On that note, we really should be archiving this stuff. I think I've got most mails going back a few years in my inbox still (I don't believe in folders, that's why search was invented). I probably have everything, but it's mixed with personal messages to me related to HECnet as well, so it would take a little work to clean it up for access. Johnny

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-10-30 04:30, Gregg Levine wrote: On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: On Oct 29, 2012, at 11:03 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/29/2012 10:55 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote: I missed that part, that's an actual PDP-11? Can we get a photo or something? Here you go, taken just now: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/pdp1153-1.jpg http://www.neurotica.com/misc/pdp1153-2.jpg Not exactly quality portraits, but you get the idea. ;) I can take some better ones if you guys are interested in some quality DECporn. ;) I'd enjoy some quality DECporn. :p Unrelated: but if you ever want an interesting and absolutely useless task, you should try and set that up as a fuzzball. I found a bit of a "guide" but couldn't get it working in simh, could prove challenging to get the files to real disks though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA Hello! Don't laugh folks. At one point I actually wanted an LSI-11 here to work with. Then I ran out of space.... Now I'm interested in this thing: Models without standard bus PDT-11/150 PDT-11/110 PDT-11/130 PDT-11/150 The PDT series were desktop systems marketed as "smart terminals". The /110 and /130 were housed in a VT100 terminal enclosure. The /150 was housed in a table-top unit which included two 8 inch floppy drives, three asynchronous serial ports, one printer port, one modem port and one synchronous serial port and required an external terminal. All three employed the same chipset as used on the LSI-11/03 and LSI-11/2 in four "microm"s. There was an option which combined two of the microms into one dual carrier, freeing one socket for an EIS/FIS chip. The /150 in combination with a VT105 terminal was also sold as MiniMINC, a budget version of the MINC-11. I abstracted the text from this Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11 . I figured that of all of the machines we know that one is least well known. I'm not sure what I can do with any of them, but I certainly hope I could manage something appropriate to what we are discussing. Incidentally Dave I'm still waiting. Outside your place are a van of frustrated yetis and related individuals in a brown van who're waiting and watching. You can alternatively look for a VT103 as well, since that is pretty much the same thing as a PDT-11/130. If you do some wiring on the Qbus backplane, you can do 22-bit. Throw in an 11/93 CPU, SCSI and what else, and you'll have an awesome system in a VT100 body. Johnny

12 years, 9 months

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RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1

by bqt＠softjar.se

Oh, c'mon. There is plenty of real hardware on HECnet... Including some really big iron. :-) Johnny On 2012-10-30 04:24, Sampsa Laine wrote: Is this a node on HECnet BTW? Because if so, it really should be on the front page of the website... Sampsa On 30 Oct 2012, at 05:03, Dave McGuire wrote: On 10/29/2012 10:55 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote: I missed that part, that's an actual PDP-11? Can we get a photo or something? Here you go, taken just now: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/pdp1153-1.jpg http://www.neurotica.com/misc/pdp1153-2.jpg Not exactly quality portraits, but you get the idea. ;) I can take some better ones if you guys are interested in some quality DECporn. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 9 months

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