On 10/31/2012 03:34 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Also do we send any encrypted stuff over this? What if something
commercial gets routed through say CHIMPYMAIL.COM - will this be a
problem or is it a "problem" in theory only?
I thought encryption and commercial messages were strictly verboten
on HAM stuff.
They are. So let's not encrypt stuff. And how much commercial data
flows across HECnet? ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 10/31/2012 03:33 PM, Fred wrote:
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
I was thinking about that (also in regard's to Steve's comment about him
having an IP on the 44. amateur reserved net). I experimented with this
years ago, but there was no one around my area to test with.
Wouldn't latency be an issue?
I think it could be handled. Thinking of all the slow links DECnet
was used with in its early days, I'd be surprised if it didn't handle
them well.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 31 Oct 2012, at 15:04, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
But the network of geostationary satellites idea is not gonna fly, is it?
What about raspberry pi based weather balloons that also handle HECnet?
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 20:58, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/31/2012 08:16 AM, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Also do we send any encrypted stuff over this? What if something commercial gets routed through say CHIMPYMAIL.COM - will this be a problem or is it a "problem" in theory only?
I thought encryption and commercial messages were strictly verboten on HAM stuff.
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:33, Fred wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012, Dave McGuire wrote:
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
I was thinking about that (also in regard's to Steve's comment about him having an IP on the 44. amateur reserved net). I experimented with this years ago, but there was no one around my area to test with.
Wouldn't latency be an issue?
Fred
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012, Dave McGuire wrote:
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
I was thinking about that (also in regard's to Steve's comment about him having an IP on the 44. amateur reserved net). I experimented with this years ago, but there was no one around my area to test with.
Wouldn't latency be an issue?
Fred
Let's hijack one - I thought the Iranians managed to get one up there, don't think anyone would particularly give us trouble in the West if we took it over..
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:05, Dave McGuire wrote:
Probably not. I dunno about you, but I'm not sitting on a wad of
cash. :-(
-Dave
On 10/31/2012 03:04 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
But the network of geostationary satellites idea is not gonna fly, is it?
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 20:58, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/31/2012 08:16 AM, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Probably not. I dunno about you, but I'm not sitting on a wad of
cash. :-(
-Dave
On 10/31/2012 03:04 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
But the network of geostationary satellites idea is not gonna fly, is it?
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 20:58, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/31/2012 08:16 AM, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
But the network of geostationary satellites idea is not gonna fly, is it?
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 20:58, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/31/2012 08:16 AM, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 10/31/2012 08:16 AM, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
We could probably do that...encapsulate DECnet packets in AX.25..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Oct 31, 2012, at 2:31 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/31/2012 01:58 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
FWIW, for those who like Forth, there's a Forth implementation
available as a run-time system on RSTS/E. It's part of the
unsupported stuff on V10.1 (and possibly somewhat earlier, maybe as
early as V9.0, I forgot). I did the port; I used it among other
things for implementing an interactive crash dump analyzer *very*
loosely modeled on VMS "SDA".
I spent some time with that RTS just a few days ago! I didn't know
you did that port. Very nice! I just looked at the source, and there's
your name right at the top. :-)
I came to love Forth many years after I got out of RSTS/E. Having
gotten back into it a couple of years ago, and finding a Forth system
for it, was a really cool feeling. Life is good. :)
Is there a way to do FIP calls from that Forth implementation?
Definitely. In the unsupported directory there should be odt.fth, which should show that. There is also sda.fth, but that's a lot bigger and more complex, partly because it completely redefines the Forth guts to be 32-bit instead of 16-bit...
paul
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:06:51 +0000, you wrote:
It shouldn't be a big delay: connecting to a non-existent object generates an
explicit reject that comes back right away. There isn't any timeout involved,
or "no answer".
The delay is about three to four seconds long, but maybe it depends on the
speed of the (emulated) RSTS host too. I do know that there is not such a
thing as a "no answer"; it was just an oversimplification of what a casual
user could think upon seeing an error instead of a login prompt. :)
G.
On 10/31/2012 01:58 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
FWIW, for those who like Forth, there's a Forth implementation
available as a run-time system on RSTS/E. It's part of the
unsupported stuff on V10.1 (and possibly somewhat earlier, maybe as
early as V9.0, I forgot). I did the port; I used it among other
things for implementing an interactive crash dump analyzer *very*
loosely modeled on VMS "SDA".
I spent some time with that RTS just a few days ago! I didn't know
you did that port. Very nice! I just looked at the source, and there's
your name right at the top. :-)
I came to love Forth many years after I got out of RSTS/E. Having
gotten back into it a couple of years ago, and finding a Forth system
for it, was a really cool feeling. Life is good. :)
Is there a way to do FIP calls from that Forth implementation?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
The FORTH run-time system is available on PLUTO:: (RSTS/E V10.1) Now
that the Internet has returned I should boot the machine up.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 13:58
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1
On Oct 30, 2012, at 1:06 AM, John Wilson wrote:
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
I had a PDT-11/150 many years ago, mid-80s. It was kinda fun, but
also kinda pointless. The only thing you can run on it is RT-11.
I had one too back then and had a blast! RT-11 is terrific
(infinitely better than contemporary microcomputer OSes),
and anyway a
150 will run pretty much anything an 11/03 will run (but
with 30 KW of
memory instead of just 28) so it's really pretty flexible.
I wrote a FORTH-79 system on mine ...
FWIW, for those who like Forth, there's a Forth
implementation available as a run-time system on RSTS/E.
It's part of the unsupported stuff on V10.1 (and possibly
somewhat earlier, maybe as early as V9.0, I forgot). I did
the port; I used it among other things for implementing an
interactive crash dump analyzer *very* loosely modeled on VMS "SDA".
paul
On Oct 31, 2012, at 12:38 PM, <gerry77 at mail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:12:05 +0000 (WET), you wrote:
VAX/VMS V5.5-2 does not have the /APPLICATION qualifier to SET HOST so
outgoing RTERM connections are not possible from it.
I'd like to add my two cents. :)
| Password:
| Welcome to VAX/VMS version V4.7 on node FLORRY
| Last interactive login on Sunday, 28-OCT-2012 13:56
| Last non-interactive login on Sunday, 8-JAN-2012 09:19
| $ set host rsts
| %REM-I-REMOTE, connection established to remote node RSTS::
| RSTS V10.1-L 31-Oct-12 05:05 PM
| User:
I think that VAX/VMS V4.7 does first try with CTERM and then, upon receiving
no answer (i.e. receiving a disconnect with a "unrecognized object" reason),
it falls back to RTERM. Actually there is a noticeable delay while it does try
both protocols.
That sounds familiar.
It shouldn't be a big delay: connecting to a non-existent object generates an explicit reject that comes back right away. There isn't any timeout involved, or "no answer".
paul
Neither. CTERM is not implemented at all on RSTS -- we never had any inclination to try because it is a very bad fit to RSTS terminal behavior, and it's very complex. So it has all the disadvantages of the old VMS/RSX protocols plus many more.
What exists is two implementations of the older protocol. The standard install gives you only the RSTS flavor of that protocol; the "unsupported" (program "netuns") gives you all four variants, so you can talk to VMS, RSX, RT11, TOPS-10, TOPS-20. It should be on the DECnet kit, but I don't have a kit handy or the scripts that create one so I can't tell how precisely to find it.
Then on the VMS end you need the older object (possibly called "RTERM") installed so the RSTS end has something to talk to. And similarly in the other direction, you need some magic switch on the Set Host command on VMS to tell it to speak the pre-CTERM protocol.
paul
On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:05 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
But CTERM doesn't work without some patch or something that nobody seems to be able to find?
Sampsa
On 30 Oct 2012, at 22:39, Steve Davidson wrote:
Yes.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of sampsa at mac.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 22:34
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1
Has anyone actually managed to get this to work (i.e. RSTS/E
+ DECNET 4.1)? :)
Sampsa
On Oct 30, 2012, at 1:06 AM, John Wilson wrote:
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
I had a PDT-11/150 many years ago, mid-80s. It was kinda fun, but
also kinda pointless. The only thing you can run on it is RT-11.
I had one too back then and had a blast! RT-11 is terrific (infinitely
better than contemporary microcomputer OSes), and anyway a 150 will run
pretty much anything an 11/03 will run (but with 30 KW of memory instead of
just 28) so it's really pretty flexible. I wrote a FORTH-79 system on mine ...
FWIW, for those who like Forth, there's a Forth implementation available as a run-time system on RSTS/E. It's part of the unsupported stuff on V10.1 (and possibly somewhat earlier, maybe as early as V9.0, I forgot). I did the port; I used it among other things for implementing an interactive crash dump analyzer *very* loosely modeled on VMS "SDA".
paul
I'm actually working on Packet over Radio (HF and VHF) since this wonderful storm. My cell phone was used as a hotspot while I waited for the landline to return. I have my own Ham domain and an IP address in the 44 block. All I need now is a dedicated VHF (or HF) rig to make this permanent.
-Steve
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:06
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Area 19
On Oct 31, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
I _demand_ a set of HECnet satellite transponders onto some satellites in geostationary orbit now.
We can't have this kind of stuff disturb our valuable traffic.
We also need undersea cables and redundant leased lines dedicated to area-to-area HECnet communication.
And a backup DECnet-over-avian-carrier/DECnet-over-semaphore network..
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:16, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
Hope everything is okay for you and yours Steve (when you are able to read this)....
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Fred <fcoffey at misernet.net> wrote:
Hi all
Got word from Steve Davidson in NH (USA) that he is without Internet access most likely due to what is left of Sandy. He'll advise when he's back on the "air".
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
SG1:: (SGC::) and AREA-19 have returned! Internet was down just short
of 24 hours.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Fred
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 19:00
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: [HECnet] Area 19
Hi all
Got word from Steve Davidson in NH (USA) that he is without Internet
access most likely due to what is left of Sandy. He'll
advise when he's
back on the "air".
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people
use in a polite but derogatory manner to imply that the
future direction they prefer is not that which they view as
the current direction.
But CTERM doesn't work without some patch or something that nobody seems to be able to find?
Sampsa
On 30 Oct 2012, at 22:39, Steve Davidson wrote:
Yes.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of sampsa at mac.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 22:34
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] RSTS/E + DECNET 4.1
Has anyone actually managed to get this to work (i.e. RSTS/E
+ DECNET 4.1)? :)
Sampsa
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:12:05 +0000 (WET), you wrote:
VAX/VMS V5.5-2 does not have the /APPLICATION qualifier to SET HOST so
outgoing RTERM connections are not possible from it.
I'd like to add my two cents. :)
| Password:
| Welcome to VAX/VMS version V4.7 on node FLORRY
| Last interactive login on Sunday, 28-OCT-2012 13:56
| Last non-interactive login on Sunday, 8-JAN-2012 09:19
| $ set host rsts
| %REM-I-REMOTE, connection established to remote node RSTS::
| RSTS V10.1-L 31-Oct-12 05:05 PM
| User:
I think that VAX/VMS V4.7 does first try with CTERM and then, upon receiving
no answer (i.e. receiving a disconnect with a "unrecognized object" reason),
it falls back to RTERM. Actually there is a noticeable delay while it does try
both protocols. Once connected, you can tell which protocol it's using because
if you hit CTRL/P you get a RTERM specific prompt that does not appear when
you are in a CTERM session. On the other hand, CTRL/Y works only with CTERM.
| Valid commands:
|
| ^x Send a CTRL/x to remote node
| CO[NTINUE] Return to terminal mode
| CL[OSE] Close any logging file
| CT[RL/P] Send a CTRL/P to remote node
| EX[IT] Exit remote terminal session
| HE[LP] Type this help message
| LO[G] file Create and use the logging file
| NO[RMAL] Restore NORMAL mode
| OD[T] Enter ODT mode
|_FLORRY::REM>
HTH, :)
G.
On 31 Oct 2012, at 18:06, Cory Smelosky wrote:
And a backup DECnet-over-avian-carrier
Ahh, the ever popular Ad-Decnet Al-Hamam Az-Zajil implementation.
Or ADA7AZ as I like to call it..
(That's an aspirated H on the hamam and an alef between the two meems, of course).
On Oct 31, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
I _demand_ a set of HECnet satellite transponders onto some satellites in geostationary orbit now.
We can't have this kind of stuff disturb our valuable traffic.
We also need undersea cables and redundant leased lines dedicated to area-to-area HECnet communication.
And a backup DECnet-over-avian-carrier/DECnet-over-semaphore network..
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:16, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
Hope everything is okay for you and yours Steve (when you are able to read this)....
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Fred <fcoffey at misernet.net> wrote:
Hi all
Got word from Steve Davidson in NH (USA) that he is without Internet access most likely due to what is left of Sandy. He'll advise when he's back on the "air".
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
I _demand_ a set of HECnet satellite transponders onto some satellites in geostationary orbit now.
We can't have this kind of stuff disturb our valuable traffic.
Sampsa
On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:16, Joe Ferraro wrote:
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
Hope everything is okay for you and yours Steve (when you are able to read this)....
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Fred <fcoffey at misernet.net> wrote:
Hi all
Got word from Steve Davidson in NH (USA) that he is without Internet access most likely due to what is left of Sandy. He'll advise when he's back on the "air".
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
If we only had the HF Radio DECnet link figured out... ;)
Hope everything is okay for you and yours Steve (when you are able to read this)....
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Fred <fcoffey at misernet.net> wrote:
Hi all
Got word from Steve Davidson in NH (USA) that he is without Internet access most likely due to what is left of Sandy. He'll advise when he's back on the "air".
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
