How to paint any kind of graphics into Terminal.app windows are beyond me. But if you want to play with soft fonts, or sixel graphis (or ReGIS), you need to intercept the incoming byte stream to Terminal.app, and then interpret that stuff to pull out what you are expected to display.
Johnny
That was going to be my basic approach, write a little shim that looks for control chars and if it sees ReGIS/SIXEL it draws a canvas, otherwise it passes it along to Terminal.app..
Some guys did with PNGs and JPEGs in Python, this could be fun..
sampsa
On the run up to DEC Legacy can anyone furnish me with information about a game called 'SHARK ATTACK' which I believe was available on the PDP/11. My school friend and I used to played this game via an acoustic coupler and an ASR/33 connected to the local college's PDP (which I think was an 11 of some description).
Are there any other PDP games that people have or can remember? We definitely played more than just SHARK ATTACK but I don't remember any others and my friend is also coming up a blank. Source code would be great - I can probably port to VAX/VMS if required.
We are due to have two restored ASR33's coming to DEC Legacy, it's definitely an opportunity not to be missed!
Regards, Mark
On 2013-09-18 11:43, Sampsa Laine wrote:
To point out a few (maybe obvious) things.
Sixel graphics is not the same as soft fonts. Soft fonts are defined in a very sixel-like format, but you cannot get a sixel graphics image and display it on such a terminal.
I was just going to paint the bitmap canvas into the Terminal.app window, that should work right?
Not sure what you mean here. Sixel is a bitmap format. On pixel per bit. Six bits per byte. Each group of six pixels are done vertically, but the stream of bytes are done horizontally. So you get one band six pixels wide at a time. If you want to do colors with sixel you need to do several passes. Each pass do one color.
The VT330 and VT340 were the last terminals who could deal with this. Obviously a lot of DEC printers also did sixel graphics.
The soft fonts on the other hand defines characters. You can have a maximum of 96 characters defined. So that is one limit. Each character however, can look any way you want. The software that converts gif for a VT320 finds common patterns to decide what characters to define, and then use those characters to paint the picture. So there are obviously going to be imperfections in the picture when viewed on a VT320.
How to paint any kind of graphics into Terminal.app windows are beyond me. But if you want to play with soft fonts, or sixel graphis (or ReGIS), you need to intercept the incoming byte stream to Terminal.app, and then interpret that stuff to pull out what you are expected to display.
Johnny
To point out a few (maybe obvious) things.
Sixel graphics is not the same as soft fonts. Soft fonts are defined in a very sixel-like format, but you cannot get a sixel graphics image and display it on such a terminal.
I was just going to paint the bitmap canvas into the Terminal.app window, that should work right?
Not that I've done any OS X development to speak of.
On 2013-09-18 10:23, Sampsa Laine wrote:
If you're looking for real world examples then Google is your friend. There is a program floating around that converts gifs to sixel graphics that can be displayed using the soft character set on VT320 terminals.
Regards, Tim.
Yup, I converted some GIFs using NETPBM to Sixel graphics.
I wish there was a Mac or Windows terminal emulator capable of showing them..
Did you checkout VTstar? That runs on Windows. Although I'm not sure of the latest version it will work on. I believe it works with Vista. Here is the link anyway:
Sadly it doesn't work either. I'm tempted to write some kind of shim that would capture ReGIS / Sixel escape sequences and draw them on Terminal.app.
The protocols are pretty simple.
To point out a few (maybe obvious) things.
Sixel graphics is not the same as soft fonts. Soft fonts are defined in a very sixel-like format, but you cannot get a sixel graphics image and display it on such a terminal.
The soft fonts do indeed differ between the terminals. There are some limited backward compatibility between them, but that is best left alone. The differences are pretty much just a question of different resolution, or size of the character cell if you want to put it that way.
Also, I think a couple of extra parameters were added to the escape sequence along the way, but nothing really significant.
The OS do not really have to do anything in relation to this. It's just like any other font on the terminal. You can switch between them using escape sequences, and the OS is none the wiser.
I've designed fonts for pretty much all VT models, in both 80 and 132 column format. I did this for the Z-machine font, which I used with my Z-machine emulator when playing Beyond Zork.
And so, yes, I have a font editor. This have been mentioned before on the list. It can be found at MIM::DU:[FED]. Written in C (not by me originally], converted to DECUS C, and adapted to handle most VT models. Free to play with if people want...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2013-09-18 02:08, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Sep 17, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
...
Many LK-xxx keyboards
I have a VT501 but no keyboard for that (LK201 has the wrong plug). Do you have something compatible?
Did you mean a VT510 Paul?
I assume you know that a normal PC keyboard with a PS/2 connector works? You don't get all the right keys, but at least you can use it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2013-09-18 02:07, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Sep 17, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
Bob how big is the DELNI? And the DECserver-100? I am always
interested in new gear.
Those are both 19 inch rack devices, 2 or 3 U, forgot which. Not very deep, less than 19 inches as I recall.
They can both be rack mounted, but the default for them is to be standalone. But the outer plastic shell can be removed, and brackets attached.
If someone wants to get a picture, just search the net. There are plenty.
The DELNI and DS100 are the same height and width, but I'm trying to remember if the DELNI isn't even shallower than the DS. They are both way less than 19" anyway.
They are both pretty light. Mostly air inside.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I have a Dec Server 300 coming and want to put some mmj sockets in two rooms. Does anyone know where I can source these?
Regards,
Daniel.
Sent from my iPad
If you're looking for real world examples then Google is your friend. There is a program floating around that converts gifs to sixel graphics that can be displayed using the soft character set on VT320 terminals.
Regards, Tim.
Yup, I converted some GIFs using NETPBM to Sixel graphics.
I wish there was a Mac or Windows terminal emulator capable of showing them..
Did you checkout VTstar? That runs on Windows. Although I'm not sure of the latest version it will work on. I believe it works with Vista. Here is the link anyway:
Sadly it doesn't work either. I'm tempted to write some kind of shim that would capture ReGIS / Sixel escape sequences and draw them on Terminal.app.
The protocols are pretty simple.
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> If you're looking for real world examples then Google is your friend. There is a program floating around that converts gifs to sixel graphics that can be displayed using the soft character set on VT320 terminals.
>
> Regards, Tim.
Yup, I converted some GIFs using NETPBM to Sixel graphics.
I wish there was a Mac or Windows terminal emulator capable of showing them..
Did you checkout VTstar? That runs on Windows. Although I'm not sure of the latest version it will work on. I believe it works with Vista. Here is the link anyway:
http://decuslib.com/freeware/freewarev70/vtstar/
Regards, Tim.
If you're looking for real world examples then Google is your friend. There is a program floating around that converts gifs to sixel graphics that can be displayed using the soft character set on VT320 terminals.
Regards, Tim.
Yup, I converted some GIFs using NETPBM to Sixel graphics.
I wish there was a Mac or Windows terminal emulator capable of showing them..
sampsa
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
I came across this little gem when perusing VT220 escape code:
"4.4.2 Designating Soft (Down-Line-Loadable) Character Sets
You can define a soft character set (font) that may or may not replace one of the existing hard sets (ROM fonts). If you do replace a hard set, the replacement occurs for both the 80 and 132-column versions"
Does VMS support this? Or is it up to the terminal emulator?
Here's the link: http://vt100.net/docs/vt220-rm/chapter4.html
That stuff generally needs a real terminal to work. As Julian pointed out, there are some emulators that do support this feature. I believe the VTstar software might do it, although I can't confirm that right now. The DECterm terminal window doesn't support it, that is the only way I think VMS could support it given it is a feature of the terminal. I'm pretty sure (it's been a while since I played with this stuff) that the soft character set is not the same on different models of terminal either.
If you're looking for real world examples then Google is your friend. There is a program floating around that converts gifs to sixel graphics that can be displayed using the soft character set on VT320 terminals.
Regards, Tim.
I'll have to look into that Mac240 software, sounds cool.
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 18 Sep 2013, at 08:14, Julian Wolfe <julian at twinax.org> wrote:
I just did a bunch of work messing with this. It works on the Mac emulator called "Mac240" for 68K machines, which also emulates ReGIS graphics. I would have no idea what VMS would 'support', but it's just a matter of dumping escape code sequences to the terminal.
I have been unsuccessful at getting a real 220 to respond to the escape codes that the Mac emulator seems to accept, according to the VT220 programmer's reference.
On Sep 18, 2013, at 12:40 AM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
I came across this little gem when perusing VT220 escape code:
"4.4.2 Designating Soft (Down-Line-Loadable) Character Sets
You can define a soft character set (font) that may or may not replace one of the existing hard sets (ROM fonts). If you do replace a hard set, the replacement occurs for both the 80 and 132-column versions"
Does VMS support this? Or is it up to the terminal emulator?
Here's the link: http://vt100.net/docs/vt220-rm/chapter4.html
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
I just did a bunch of work messing with this. It works on the Mac emulator called "Mac240" for 68K machines, which also emulates ReGIS graphics. I would have no idea what VMS would 'support', but it's just a matter of dumping escape code sequences to the terminal.
I have been unsuccessful at getting a real 220 to respond to the escape codes that the Mac emulator seems to accept, according to the VT220 programmer's reference.
On Sep 18, 2013, at 12:40 AM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
I came across this little gem when perusing VT220 escape code:
"4.4.2 Designating Soft (Down-Line-Loadable) Character Sets
You can define a soft character set (font) that may or may not replace one of the existing hard sets (ROM fonts). If you do replace a hard set, the replacement occurs for both the 80 and 132-column versions"
Does VMS support this? Or is it up to the terminal emulator?
Here's the link: http://vt100.net/docs/vt220-rm/chapter4.html
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
I came across this little gem when perusing VT220 escape code:
"4.4.2 Designating Soft (Down-Line-Loadable) Character Sets
You can define a soft character set (font) that may or may not replace one of the existing hard sets (ROM fonts). If you do replace a hard set, the replacement occurs for both the 80 and 132-column versions"
Does VMS support this? Or is it up to the terminal emulator?
Here's the link: http://vt100.net/docs/vt220-rm/chapter4.html
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
Hello!
Pontus I've been dunning myself, in the general direction of Kessel
for the same issue, (your good idea), for two items as well. As it
happens my Fedex account is fully workable........
----
Dave this is your fault, none of the Yetis surrounding you or Cory
want to help. All they want to do is use your resources to commit
mayhem in Asia.
----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:30 AM, Pontus <pontus at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 09/18/2013 01:25 AM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
H919 20 slot 8/E OMNIBUS backplane
Argh, I've been looking for one of those for a while. Does it have the "flip
chips" for connecting to another backplane (I don't know the number)?
Is there anybody local who would pick it up and ship to me in Sweden? For a
reasonable reward of course.
Regards,
Pontus.
On 09/18/2013 01:25 AM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
H919 20 slot 8/E OMNIBUS backplane
Argh, I've been looking for one of those for a while. Does it have the "flip chips" for connecting to another backplane (I don't know the number)?
Is there anybody local who would pick it up and ship to me in Sweden? For a reasonable reward of course.
Regards,
Pontus.
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 09:08:36AM -0700, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
Best change? Putting the reason at the top of the email instead of the bottom :)
Yes. I agree. :)
-brian
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 11:50:46PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 09/17/2013 11:09 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Reloading router: 50.73.179.1 xxxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-gw.neurotica.com-ipv4.txt
Error reloading router: gw.neurotica.com :: No SNMP response received before timeout
Reloading router: 208.73.57.126 xxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-hub.platinum.net-ipv4.txt
running..........
successful
Reloading router: 10.42.255.5 xxxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-bart.4amlunch.net-ipv4.txt
running.......
successful
Reloading router: 75.60.194.48 xxxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-dev.gimme-sympathy.org-ipv4.txt
Error reloading router: dev.gimme-sympathy.org :: No SNMP response received before timeout
So Cory and Dave, please update your ACLs. :)
Sorry, very busy here. What address are you coming from now?
37.59.44.141
And, umm, you might consider sanitizing your outbound mail a bit.
I've deleted the passwords in the quoted message above. Similarly I
Oh, that was rather silly of me. Sorry.
recently found headers referencing a certain private mailing list
archived in Oracle's forums, in the context of sieve rules.
Who what why? Please point me to that? I don't think I've ever used
Oracle's forums. I barely used them when they were run by Sun.
-brian
On 09/17/2013 11:09 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Reloading router: 50.73.179.1 xxxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-gw.neurotica.com-ipv4.txt
Error reloading router: gw.neurotica.com :: No SNMP response received before timeout
Reloading router: 208.73.57.126 xxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-hub.platinum.net-ipv4.txt
running..........
successful
Reloading router: 10.42.255.5 xxxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-bart.4amlunch.net-ipv4.txt
running.......
successful
Reloading router: 75.60.194.48 xxxxxxx 37.59.44.141 tunnel-dev.gimme-sympathy.org-ipv4.txt
Error reloading router: dev.gimme-sympathy.org :: No SNMP response received before timeout
So Cory and Dave, please update your ACLs. :)
Sorry, very busy here. What address are you coming from now?
And, umm, you might consider sanitizing your outbound mail a bit.
I've deleted the passwords in the quoted message above. Similarly I
recently found headers referencing a certain private mailing list
archived in Oracle's forums, in the context of sieve rules.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 07:28:57PM -0400, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Bob how big is the DELNI?
I used to have one of those!!
A *long* time ago.
Replaced it with a cisco 10mbit switch that used fiber and got a bunch
of AUI/fiber tranceivers.
Don't have that anymore either. :)
-brian
On Sep 17, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
...
Many LK-xxx keyboards
I have a VT501 but no keyboard for that (LK201 has the wrong plug). Do you have something compatible?
paul
On Sep 17, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
Bob how big is the DELNI? And the DECserver-100? I am always
interested in new gear.
Those are both 19 inch rack devices, 2 or 3 U, forgot which. Not very deep, less than 19 inches as I recall.
paul
Hello!
Now there's an idea.
------
However how's that device shutdown coming?
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 17 Sep 2013, at 19:33, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
I already asked about that one!
I pressed return before i received your reply! ;)
------
And until the Yetis resolve the bandwidth problem you're not allowed
anything else, they want you to turn off six items including the game
system and that strange looking thing in someone's bedroom.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 17 Sep 2013, at 19:25, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
... well, sort of. It's time to clean out the storage place, and as a
result I have a lot of DEC stuff that I need to make "go away". Most of it
is just spare parts and those I'm willing to just give away to the first
person who picks them up in Milpitas CA USA. Most of this stuff is big and
heavy and I absolutely am not willing to ship any of it - sorry. I realize
that most of HECnet is not local and so it's probably a waste of your time,
but I thought I'd share the list just in case I have that one single item
that somebody can't live without. It'd be a shame to see it go to the
recyclers if that's the case.
There are a few complete systems and peripherals at the end of the list
(e.g. 9 track drives) that I'd rather trade for something I can use. I
don't really want money for any of it, and in a pinch I could probably be
persuaded to give that away too. And just in case you have any doubts as to
what I can use, send me an email and I'll send you a wish list :-)
Free Stuff
----------
Chassis and parts
Several BA23 boxes (floor stand, rack mount, you name it ...) and
various related bits
Two BA11-L chassis (the short box for the 11/04-34)
One H775 power supply for the BA11-L
One or two BA11-N chassis (11/03-23)
Several short corporate rack end panels, doors, etc
A couple of doors for the older, pre-corporate short DEC racks (I forget
the H number - sorry!)
Rainbow/Pro/DECmate floor stand
Spares
RA8x spares - motors, starting capacitors, power supplies, etc. No
HDAs!
VT1xx spares - power supplies, CRTs, etc
Extra BA23 power supplies
Many LK-xxx keyboards
I could use some of these. Hmmmmm.
Other
A couple of crashed RL02 packs (well, you can always make a clock out of
'em!)
one or two DELNIs
one DEMPR
DECserver-100
Would you be interested in shipping the DS100? Those can t weigh much.
Four new rolls of palette wrap
Several 874 power controllers
H919 20 slot 8/E OMNIBUS backplane
12 slot OMNIBUS PDP-8/A backplane
Trade Stuff
-----------
DS20E ALPHAserver (incomplete)
Cipher F880 9 track drive (Pertec interface)
Four DEC TS05 drives (identical to the F880)
Two DEC TU81+ 9 track drives (LESI interface)
8 line DECtalk-III IVR system in DF100-RM rack mount enclosure (bad PS)
What do you want for that? It might run off an ATX supply. ;)
One VAXstation-4000/VLC
Various VAXstation-3100s
Various VAXstation-2000s
DEC2000 (aka the Jensen) missing skins
Various DECPCs
Various DEC3000
