- HECnet - lists @ Update

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

Hello! Odd. I'd thought that they would be named Hagar and Hamlet. When those things first came out, the advertising being used was indeed from Hagar the Horrible, a Viking. In fact I even have a mouse pad from it...... And there's a reason why those shell commands were beyond the comprehension of regular people. They were not written by people..... ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: On Sep 29, 2013, at 17:01, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 09/29/2013 04:26 PM, Hans Vlems wrote: It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human comprehension... Smit (graphical) and smitty (textual). On one of the boxes at PSU when I was there renamed to smut and smutty. :) -brian

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 23:06, Brian Hechinger wrote: To work behind a NAT box you'll need to be able to pass SNMP and GRE through to the DECbrouter. If you can do that you'll be golden. GRE doesn't run over a port, it's a Layer 4 (transport) protocol. Oooo, how I hate it when people try to make the IP stack line up with the OSI model... :-) They are *incompatible*. SNMP is 161. That is port 161 in both UDP and TCP. Sorry, I just felt like nitpicking today. Grumpy I guess. Call me an old fart. :-) Johnny The email address is just where you want notification emails sent so your normal email is probably appropriate. The emails that are sent can also be copy and pasted into the router in the event that SNMP doesn't work. -brian On Sep 29, 2013, at 4:00, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com <mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>> wrote: I was going to have a go at this today, but thinking about it I am not sure this can work at DEC Legacy or even here at home because it would always be behind NAT. Can we make this work with NAT? What ports would you need? Nevertheless I have it configured with DECnet and I have entered the two SNMP commands below (I used the public community name, not sure if that is right because I know very little about SNMP). The information you wanted was: Your external IP Addres: 86.4.69.74 Your external FQDN: jarratt.dyndns.org <http://jarratt.dyndns.org> Is this a dynamic IP: yes The DECnet area at this location: 5 The source interface on your router: Ethernet0 The email address you want updates sent to: rob at jarratt.me.uk <mailto:rob at jarratt.me.uk> (not sure if this is what you mean, this goes to my regular email address, are we talking about some email capability in the router?) The snmp community from the above directions: public I hope that is the information you need. Regards Rob *From:*Jarratt RMA [mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com] *Sent:* 24 September 2013 21:14 *To:* HECnet *Subject:* Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct I won't be home until the end of the week, I will try it this weekend. Regards Rob On 24 September 2013 21:03, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net <mailto:wonko at 4amlunch.net>> wrote: Ok, 5 lines. :) first you need to enable DECnet routing: decnet routing X.Y (where X.Y is the DECnet address you want to give it) decnet node-type area Then you need to add this to the interface that talks to your DECnet LAN segment: decnet cost 10 Then you need to allow my config tool to talk to your router: access-list 10 permit 37.59.44.141 snmp-server community <community name> RW 10 Then you just need to get me all that info I asked for and we should be good. The machine running the config tool is down right now so I'm in no hurry. :) -brian On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:37:23PM +0100, Jarratt RMA wrote: > I have no idea how to set up GRE, but I believe the DECbrouter I have can > do it, does anyone have any pointers on how to set it up? I will also want > to add GRE to my user mode router when I get chance, but for DEC Legacy > using the brouter might be nice. Once I can get it (the brouter) working > let me know how to update your db with the IP address. Question though, > does the IP address change have to be made manually or could it be > automatic? > > Thanks > > Rob > > > On 22 September 2013 23:32, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net <mailto:wonko at 4amlunch.net>> wrote: > > > If you want to use the GRE tunnels I can give you access to the db to > > update your IP. > > > > -brian > > > > On Sep 22, 2013, at 16:18, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com <mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > I don't have multinet and I have never installed it. What protocol does > > it > > > use under the covers, is it something proprietary to multinet? Could I > > get > > > the DECbrouter I bought recently to interoperate with your side? If it is > > > not too hard I could try implementing Multinet interop in my user mode > > > router. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>] On > > Behalf > > > Of Steve Davidson > > > Sent: 22 September 2013 11:43 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE> > > > Subject: RE: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > > > > > > > If you decide to use Multinet and have access to a dynamic DNS name, > > then I > > > can link SG1:: to it via the SW at this end. It is completely automated. > > > If we can manage to install Multinet on GORVAX:: then the links would be > > > even faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> on behalf of Mark Wickens > > > Sent: Sat 9/21/2013 16:18 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE> > > > Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > On 21/09/2013 21:12, Robert Jarratt wrote: > > > > > > I am hoping to connect to HECnet from the DEC Legacy event in October, > > > hopefully connecting a few interesting systems to HECnet and allowing > > > attendees to explore HECnet. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would be using a USB 3G device to do this, so I wouldn't know my IP > > until > > > the day itself. Is there anyone with a bridge on HECnet who would be > > > available during UK daytime on those days to configure their bridge to > > peer > > > with me? There may be more than one change of IP address over the course > > of > > > the weekend though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are there any other options? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > Obviously I will have my home bridge going, so maybe we can keep this > > > in-house with a bit of experimentation? I think this is maybe what I did > > > last time, I really can't remember but it makes a lot of sense and it > > does > > > shake my memory a bit! > > > > > > Mark. > > > > > > <winmail.dat> > > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On Sep 29, 2013, at 17:01, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 09/29/2013 04:26 PM, Hans Vlems wrote: It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human comprehension... Smit (graphical) and smitty (textual). On one of the boxes at PSU when I was there renamed to smut and smutty. :) -brian

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

To work behind a NAT box you'll need to be able to pass SNMP and GRE through to the DECbrouter. If you can do that you'll be golden. GRE doesn't run over a port, it's a Layer 4 (transport) protocol. SNMP is 161. The email address is just where you want notification emails sent so your normal email is probably appropriate. The emails that are sent can also be copy and pasted into the router in the event that SNMP doesn't work. -brian On Sep 29, 2013, at 4:00, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote: I was going to have a go at this today, but thinking about it I am not sure this can work at DEC Legacy or even here at home because it would always be behind NAT. Can we make this work with NAT? What ports would you need? Nevertheless I have it configured with DECnet and I have entered the two SNMP commands below (I used the public community name, not sure if that is right because I know very little about SNMP). The information you wanted was: Your external IP Addres: 86.4.69.74 Your external FQDN: jarratt.dyndns.org Is this a dynamic IP: yes The DECnet area at this location: 5 The source interface on your router: Ethernet0 The email address you want updates sent to: rob at jarratt.me.uk (not sure if this is what you mean, this goes to my regular email address, are we talking about some email capability in the router?) The snmp community from the above directions: public I hope that is the information you need. Regards Rob From: Jarratt RMA [mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com] Sent: 24 September 2013 21:14 To: HECnet Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct I won't be home until the end of the week, I will try it this weekend. Regards Rob On 24 September 2013 21:03, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: Ok, 5 lines. :) first you need to enable DECnet routing: decnet routing X.Y (where X.Y is the DECnet address you want to give it) decnet node-type area Then you need to add this to the interface that talks to your DECnet LAN segment: decnet cost 10 Then you need to allow my config tool to talk to your router: access-list 10 permit 37.59.44.141 snmp-server community <community name> RW 10 Then you just need to get me all that info I asked for and we should be good. The machine running the config tool is down right now so I'm in no hurry. :) -brian On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:37:23PM +0100, Jarratt RMA wrote: > I have no idea how to set up GRE, but I believe the DECbrouter I have can > do it, does anyone have any pointers on how to set it up? I will also want > to add GRE to my user mode router when I get chance, but for DEC Legacy > using the brouter might be nice. Once I can get it (the brouter) working > let me know how to update your db with the IP address. Question though, > does the IP address change have to be made manually or could it be > automatic? > > Thanks > > Rob > > > On 22 September 2013 23:32, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: > > > If you want to use the GRE tunnels I can give you access to the db to > > update your IP. > > > > -brian > > > > On Sep 22, 2013, at 16:18, "Robert Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> > > wrote: > > > > > I don't have multinet and I have never installed it. What protocol does > > it > > > use under the covers, is it something proprietary to multinet? Could I > > get > > > the DECbrouter I bought recently to interoperate with your side? If it is > > > not too hard I could try implementing Multinet interop in my user mode > > > router. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On > > Behalf > > > Of Steve Davidson > > > Sent: 22 September 2013 11:43 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE > > > Subject: RE: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > > > > > > > If you decide to use Multinet and have access to a dynamic DNS name, > > then I > > > can link SG1:: to it via the SW at this end. It is completely automated. > > > If we can manage to install Multinet on GORVAX:: then the links would be > > > even faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Wickens > > > Sent: Sat 9/21/2013 16:18 > > > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE > > > Subject: Re: [HECnet] Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct > > > > > > On 21/09/2013 21:12, Robert Jarratt wrote: > > > > > > I am hoping to connect to HECnet from the DEC Legacy event in October, > > > hopefully connecting a few interesting systems to HECnet and allowing > > > attendees to explore HECnet. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would be using a USB 3G device to do this, so I wouldn't know my IP > > until > > > the day itself. Is there anyone with a bridge on HECnet who would be > > > available during UK daytime on those days to configure their bridge to > > peer > > > with me? There may be more than one change of IP address over the course > > of > > > the weekend though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are there any other options? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > Obviously I will have my home bridge going, so maybe we can keep this > > > in-house with a bit of experimentation? I think this is maybe what I did > > > last time, I really can't remember but it makes a lot of sense and it > > does > > > shake my memory a bit! > > > > > > Mark. > > > > > > <winmail.dat> > >

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 09/29/2013 04:26 PM, Hans Vlems wrote: It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human comprehension... Smit (graphical) and smitty (textual). -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human comprehension... Van: Sampsa Laine Verzonden: zondag 29 september 2013 20:36 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :) Not sure how many of you guys know about the "simple" user interface that IBM developed for using TSO ("time sharing option", the interactive bit of MVS / OS/390 / z/OS) and it's called ISPF. It's basically a set of screens that invoke TSO commands on behalf of the user (mostly to compile / link programs, which is insanely complex on IBM systems for some reason). Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to write an ISPF clone and deploy it on CHIMPY - because I'm lazy I'm going to do it in Python (so it prob will never run on a VAX), but I'll let you guys know when it's finished. Basically I think I'll just define a "Panel Language" that is used to describe the menu and what DCL command to run if that option is chosen. If I feel particularly ambitious I might include 3270-like cursor key navigation of the panels as well :) NOTE: This is not a serious endeavour, more of a "wouldn't it be funny if this looked like a mainframe" type idea..

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by sampsa＠mac.com

This is a little bit unfair for the blue guys :) ISPF is far more than a set of screens to invoke TSO commands. The panels (that's how ISPF screens are called) are just a part of the whole thing. ISPF integrates with TSO, so we are talking about: - The TSO command language (CLIST language) and also the REXX language. - The panel facility. - The skeleton facility. It is quite easy to "simulate" the ISPF panels (you just need DCL to do it, I did it when I worked with DEC machines in a mostly IBM-centric company), but that would be just the user interface. The APIs provided with ISPF are way beyond that... I was planning on developing a simple format for defining the panels, mapping the options to DCL and any params / switches they need. I am aware that ISPF can be used for way more than the basic IDE / sysop functions that it comes with by default, don't some ISVs actually build their software using ISPF panels as the interface? I just thought a IBM mainframe lookalike interface to VMS would be amusing if nothing else. Sampsa

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 29/09/2013, a les 20:36, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: Not sure how many of you guys know about the "simple" user interface that IBM developed for using TSO ("time sharing option", the interactive bit of MVS / OS/390 / z/OS) and it's called ISPF. It's basically a set of screens that invoke TSO commands on behalf of the user (mostly to compile / link programs, which is insanely complex on IBM systems for some reason). Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to write an ISPF clone and deploy it on CHIMPY - because I'm lazy I'm going to do it in Python (so it prob will never run on a VAX), but I'll let you guys know when it's finished. Basically I think I'll just define a "Panel Language" that is used to describe the menu and what DCL command to run if that option is chosen. If I feel particularly ambitious I might include 3270-like cursor key navigation of the panels as well :) NOTE: This is not a serious endeavour, more of a "wouldn't it be funny if this looked like a mainframe" type idea.. This is a little bit unfair for the blue guys :) ISPF is far more than a set of screens to invoke TSO commands. The panels (that's how ISPF screens are called) are just a part of the whole thing. ISPF integrates with TSO, so we are talking about: - The TSO command language (CLIST language) and also the REXX language. - The panel facility. - The skeleton facility. To follow an example, the "background" option in the ISPF main menu takes the user to another menu where he chooses the language he wants to use. When the user chooses an option, a CLIST (a TSO command procedure) is fired, which loads and displays an ISPF panel. The fields of that pannel are bound to variables in the CLIST, which _could_ also be bound to the user profile (so the values of those variables are persistent). The user fills the pannel (with the source location, the output dataset and the compiler options) and then some magic begins. ISPF loads what is called a "skeleton", which is a file with placeholders. That skeleton is a JCL deck which contains all the "cards" neede to compile and link the program. ISPF replaces the placeholders with the variable values and then submits the JCL deck for batch execution. It is quite easy to "simulate" the ISPF panels (you just need DCL to do it, I did it when I worked with DEC machines in a mostly IBM-centric company), but that would be just the user interface. The APIs provided with ISPF are way beyond that... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by sampsa＠mac.com

Not sure how many of you guys know about the "simple" user interface that IBM developed for using TSO ("time sharing option", the interactive bit of MVS / OS/390 / z/OS) and it's called ISPF. It's basically a set of screens that invoke TSO commands on behalf of the user (mostly to compile / link programs, which is insanely complex on IBM systems for some reason). Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to write an ISPF clone and deploy it on CHIMPY - because I'm lazy I'm going to do it in Python (so it prob will never run on a VAX), but I'll let you guys know when it's finished. Basically I think I'll just define a "Panel Language" that is used to describe the menu and what DCL command to run if that option is chosen. If I feel particularly ambitious I might include 3270-like cursor key navigation of the panels as well :) NOTE: This is not a serious endeavour, more of a "wouldn't it be funny if this looked like a mainframe" type idea..

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

IOS images

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 29 Sep 2013, Gregg Levine wrote: Hello! Here's an interesting question: How are these images delivered to the interested router? TFTP or ftp to the flash. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:48 PM, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: http://wiggum.4amlunch.net/hecnet/ios/ 12.4 and 15.1 images for the 1841 router. Unless the router is maxed on ram I'd say use the 12.4 image. I also have 181x (both 12.4 and 15.1) and 2800 (both 12.4 and 15.1) images if anyone needs those. -brian -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

AFAIK the only common thing was that both the TU56 and TU58 were block addressable tapes. Our PDP 11/40 ran RT-11 V 4. From an RK05 unless we expected visitors, then it ran V2 from DECtape I. Spinning reels always impressed them. DECtape II has never impressed anyone at all, beyond the speed it could let seasoned system managers fall asleep... Van: Clem Cole Verzonden: zondag 29 september 2013 15:44 Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Cc: Sampsa Laine Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS? On Sunday, September 29, 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 14:48, Sampsa Laine VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... sounds reasonable as I have forgotten but I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. I just remember it was a PITA to work with. I also remember b*tching about how brain dead it was in the lunchroom one day only to have the guy that wrote much if it sitting behind me - as Garrison Keiler says: "today's embarrassing moment is tomorrow's funny story. " That said, I agree as my memory was that 9-track was the traditional sneaker-net medium. -- Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 15:44, Clem Cole wrote: On Sunday, September 29, 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 14:48, Sampsa Laine VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... sounds reasonable as I have forgotten but I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. I just remember it was a PITA to work with. I also remember b*tching about how brain dead it was in the lunchroom one day only to have the guy that wrote much if it sitting behind me - as Garrison Keiler says: "today's embarrassing moment is tomorrow's funny story. " You are right about that thing, but that was a "DECtape II". No relation to a DECtape. And yes, that device sucked in more ways than most. That said, I agree as my memory was that 9-track was the traditional sneaker-net medium. Indeed. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 15:25, Sampsa Laine wrote: VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... Oh, bummer, always wanted to play around with DECtape :) So, get a real computer. :-) And simh is not a DECtape. The easiest way to transfer files between a PDP-11 and VAX would of course be DECnet, but in case you wanted to do it on a physical storage medium, the popular choices were RL02 or 9-track tape. But potentially, RK06, RK07, RM02, RM03, RM05, RP04, RP05, RP06 and RA60 were also pretty usable. Let's say I run RSX-11 on the PDP-11, what file system (I believe the PDP supports some level of Files-11) should I INIT the disks to? Can I INIT the disk on the RSX side and write to it on the VMS box? I don't remember the invocations in VMS, but yes, RSX uses Files-11, just like VMS. But more specifically, RSX uses ODS-1, while VMS uses ODS-2 or ODS-5. I think only VMS on VAX supported volumes using ODS-1. But pretty much all you need is for the volume to have the file system set up. Once that it done, you just mount it like any other volume in VMS, and away you go. You can initialize the file system on either RSX or VMS. As for DECNET: Yes, that's obviously the sane way to do it. This is more of a "do it for the sake of doing it" type of an idea.. :-) And don't forget floppies... True. Are there any 8" floppy emulators available on SIMH? :) I don't want to use anything boring.. No idea. I don't really get the point if you are just going to simulate the hardware anyway. But that is just me. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Clem Cole wrote: I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. That's a TU58 (I believe it was actually called "DECtape-II"). That's supported by pretty much all versions of VMS. The driver was removed from some of the recent versions, but it's easy to add back. The only special hardware (on the VAX side) required by the TU58 was a serial port, though. The traditional DECtape (those little reels of tape) was a different thing. Bob

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by clemc＠ccc.com

On Sunday, September 29, 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 14:48, Sampsa Laine VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... sounds reasonable as I have forgotten but I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. I just remember it was a PITA to work with. I also remember b*tching about how brain dead it was in the lunchroom one day only to have the guy that wrote much if it sitting behind me - as Garrison Keiler says: "today's embarrassing moment is tomorrow's funny story. " That said, I agree as my memory was that 9-track was the traditional sneaker-net medium. -- Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Johnny Billquist wrote: VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... Not officially, but there was a driver in DECUS. Sorry, I don't have it though. Of course the only way to connect a TU56 to a real VAX would be to have a VAX model that supported a UBA (e.g. VAX-11/7xx, VAX-82/3xx, 86xx, and maybe one or two others) and a TC11. There wasn't a big demand for such a setup :-) Bob

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... Oh, bummer, always wanted to play around with DECtape :) The easiest way to transfer files between a PDP-11 and VAX would of course be DECnet, but in case you wanted to do it on a physical storage medium, the popular choices were RL02 or 9-track tape. But potentially, RK06, RK07, RM02, RM03, RM05, RP04, RP05, RP06 and RA60 were also pretty usable. Let's say I run RSX-11 on the PDP-11, what file system (I believe the PDP supports some level of Files-11) should I INIT the disks to? Can I INIT the disk on the RSX side and write to it on the VMS box? As for DECNET: Yes, that's obviously the sane way to do it. This is more of a "do it for the sake of doing it" type of an idea.. And don't forget floppies... True. Are there any 8" floppy emulators available on SIMH? :) I don't want to use anything boring..

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 14:48, Sampsa Laine wrote: I noticed that the SIMH PDP-11 distribution contains emulation of TC11/TU56 DECtape drives. My questions are: - How hard would these be to port to the VAX SIMH emulation? - Do modern VMS (e.g > 7.0) OSes support DECtapes? I figure it would be a nice way to transfer files between a PDP-11 and VAX system for example.. VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... The easiest way to transfer files between a PDP-11 and VAX would of course be DECnet, but in case you wanted to do it on a physical storage medium, the popular choices were RL02 or 9-track tape. But potentially, RK06, RK07, RM02, RM03, RM05, RP04, RP05, RP06 and RA60 were also pretty usable. And don't forget floppies... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

I noticed that the SIMH PDP-11 distribution contains emulation of TC11/TU56 DECtape drives. My questions are: - How hard would these be to port to the VAX SIMH emulation? - Do modern VMS (e.g > 7.0) OSes support DECtapes? I figure it would be a nice way to transfer files between a PDP-11 and VAX system for example..

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Non ASCII fonts on VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

PPS: Arabic is a pain in the ass frankly, to write - each letter has up to FOUR versions, depending on its position in the word (initial, medial, final, by itself) and depending on the letter, it can either connect to previous and next letter or JUST the previous, which means that the next letter has to use the INITIAL form even though it's in the middle of a word... BTW, this means that converting from UTF-8 to a non-smart terminal would require 28 x 4 (letters * positions) letters in a byte, plus maybe a control character to indicate that the text is to be printed right-to-left. Looking at the code pages on my Mac, it seems that several of these were in fact in existence back in the day, but the Arabic keyboard on OS X only input Unicode. Sampsa

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Non ASCII fonts on VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

I just realized I read a previous line of yours too quickly. I read "Both of the iTerm pass the preliminary VTTEST suites..." as "Both iTerm and Terminal.app pass...", which I couldn't get to fit with the fact that Terminal.app fail on DECCOLM. Oh well. My fault. Just ran VTTEST against the (admittedly old, the version has great code page support for PC / ANSI BBF 8-bit characters and other weird things I need occasionally) iTerm and it broke a lot more than Terminal.app.. Might install latest version of iTerm and run that as well. But as I said, I have not come across any show stopping bugs in my use of Terminal.app, so until I do, I'll probably stick with it. PS: iTerm couldn't display Arabic ligatures either :) PPS: Arabic is a pain in the ass frankly, to write - each letter has up to FOUR versions, depending on its position in the word (initial, medial, final, by itself) and depending on the letter, it can either connect to previous and next letter or JUST the previous, which means that the next letter has to use the INITIAL form even though it's in the middle of a word... It takes the average student about 5 weeks to figure this out. Don't get me started on the short vowel pointing system (long vowel are indicated by consonants (!) and you just have to know from context whether something is read as a YA or a long I sound), feminine nouns using Ta Marbuta (urgh) or Tanween (diacritics used to mark adverbs). It's an insane writing system all in all, but I love it for some reason..:)

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Non ASCII fonts on VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 28 Sep 2013, at 20:47, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-09-28 11:45, Sampsa Laine wrote: On 28 Sep 2013, at 11:39, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote: On 2013-09-28 11:33, Sampsa Laine wrote: If I type the document locally and upload it via Kermit, it sort of works. Unfortunately it doesn't keep the ligatures which makes it more or less useless for Arabic :) How do you verify that it "works"? What does the document look like on the Mac? I mean, if you really look at all the bytes. What did you use to create it? The letters are all there, but they're not correctly connected (ligatures) - again, probably a Terminal.app problem, VMS is storing them just fine. That could be a question of fixed font width. Would they look ok if you types the same file in Terminal.app but running locally on the Mac? When 'cat'd on the Mac, it looks the same as it does on the VMS system. The text editor I used uses a fixed width font and draws the ligatures correctly (I suppose they make the horizontal base line shorter/longer as necessary). In this case, until I get Terminal (it's broken in iTerm too, BTW) to display the ligatures correctly, I won't even worry about using the files on VMS.* As for Hebrew, I know the alphabet but don't know more than a dozen words of the language. So technically possible I suppose but not very useful :) If I remember correctly, the is a DW MOTIF for HEBREW license in the hobbyist PAK, wonder what that did? Right to left writing? * Microsoft Word on Mac didn't unbreak the ligatures until about 2008. Never heard so much Arabic swearing as when somebody on a Mac gets sent an important but impossible to read document in MS DOC format :)

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Non ASCII fonts on VMS?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 12:40, Mark Wickens wrote: On 29/09/2013 11:32, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 00:08, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes: Doh! Just checked iterm2, and it also fails on DECCOLM... Both have their issues but then, so does xterm. I found so many issues with the Xorg issue of xterm that I'm now building it from source; not that that doesn't have issues too, it's just not as many. If you find any, I'm all ears. At the moment I'm not aware of any issues in xterm, but I have fixed bugs in it in the past. Johnny I did raise an obscure compilation issue with xterm on Digital Unix 3.2C, but to be fair, I did say that he should feel free to ignore me :) Compilation issues are also a completely different ballpark. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Fwd: DTSS (stuck?).

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

Switch it off would be my reaction if there is no phase 5 server configured . Van: Mark Wickens Verzonden: zondag 29 september 2013 12:39 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] Fwd: DTSS (stuck?). Malcolm has asked a question about DTSS which I'm not familiar with - does anyone know the answer? Regards, Mark. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: DTSS (stuck?). Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 10:36:34 +0000 From: Malcolm Blunden <malcolm_blunden at hotmail.com> To: Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> Hi Mark! Do you know anyone with experience of DTSS? On Bernd Ulmann's machine, FASOLT, DTSS$CLERK is stuck in LEF, apparently waiting for something that will never happen, and has come up like that through at least two consecutive reboots. I don't know whether he doesn't know how to fix it or hasn't noticed. I don't like to bother him because I know he is very busy, so I'd prefer to be able to offer some suggestions before raising the matter. My own experience, such as it is, is only that DTSS is a nice idea when it works but a real pain when it doesn't. If it isn't fixed before the last Sunday in October, it will cause a slight problem. Any ideas? Regards, Malcolm.

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

Non ASCII fonts on VMS?

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

On 29/09/2013 11:32, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 00:08, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes: Doh! Just checked iterm2, and it also fails on DECCOLM... Both have their issues but then, so does xterm. I found so many issues with the Xorg issue of xterm that I'm now building it from source; not that that doesn't have issues too, it's just not as many. If you find any, I'm all ears. At the moment I'm not aware of any issues in xterm, but I have fixed bugs in it in the past. Johnny I did raise an obscure compilation issue with xterm on Digital Unix 3.2C, but to be fair, I did say that he should feel free to ignore me :) Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

11 years, 10 months

1
0
0 0

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

HECnet