On 10/02/2013 05:59 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
Dave -- might want to tighten comment that a little. GNU-emacs builds
on most anything with a 32 bit linear address space or greater. Other
emacs implementations YMMV.
Actually the statement holds quite well for anything people are likely
to run into, and certainly everything we talk about HERE save for
PDP-10s and PDP-11s. No, not a Commodore 64 or a PDP-8, but let's be
reasonable.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2013-10-02 23:29, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Depends...
Issue a "SHOW DEVICE" at the dead sargent and post the output.
Well...this could explain a bit: I was burning at 24x and throwing those
discs at a 12x drive.
:rolleyes:
That generally has no correlation whatsoever. What's important is
whether
or not the CD-rom can read the recordable media you're using. Some
record-
able media works better than other in older CD-rom drives.
Hey, I haven't touched CD-ROM stuff in awhile! ;)
You need a refresher...
BTW, the drive you have installed, is it jumpered for 512 byte blocks???
I'm not even seeing a jumper for it on the drive. Drive is a crippled
Apple CR-507-C (Hey! It's the only working SCSI CD-ROM drive I have!)
I wouldn't be surprised if your problem turns out to be related to the block size. DEC machines wants disks (including CD) to have 512 byte blocks. A majority of CD drives do 2048 byte blocks. Not compatible.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
Dave -- might want to tighten comment that a little. GNU-emacs builds on most anything with a 32 bit linear address space or greater. Other emacs implementations YMMV.
Also, for smaller or non-linear address spaces, GNU emacs might have been ported, but it probably has not been and you are very likely to be SOL.
vi on the other hand was ported to just about everything I saw from the Z80 on forward (using the BTL z80 C compiler) - which is quite a testament to making cruft >>v6<< UNIX code from 1978 move before the days of ANSI C.
I remember hating it when I saw it -- "who wrote this piece of ... " but when I realized it was just ed I was enlightened and it made sense (which is scary I know).
I also saw the comment about SOS and smiled - that's an editor I have not seen in years. It was my first PDP-10 editor (and for VAX #1) as we had ASR-33s not even VT-52s at that point. I remember the joy for a couple of us when somebody got teco running on the Vax - darned if I can remember who that was.
On 2 Oct 2013, at 23:50, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Good to hear that! Something I've been considering for a while is that if they were to join, should we invite their whole userbase to the HECnet mailing list or possibly just the EISNER adminds?
Uh? God no! I think anyone who are interested should subscribe themself anyway, and let the rest be.
I wasn't suggesting that at all, in fact the next paragraph states the opposite quite clearly.
I personally think the admins would make a better choice, there are lists like DECTEK for general DEChead stuff.
I think that should be entirely up to them.
You could perhaps create a notes group for HECnet on EISNER?
As for admins being on the mailing list, this could be useful but of course mandatory.
Brian, if we get this going, how do I create a new NOTES group?
(I'm a total NOTES n00b)
On 10/02/2013 05:56 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Otherwise, if you have a spare SCSI disk, you could dump the installation
image onto it (e.g. with dd) and use it as if it were a CD-ROM.
I hae a spare SCSI disk...but no way to write the image to scsi disk
other than VMS. The current VMS install albeit touchy would work for that.
You don't have a random Linux box there with a SCSI interface?
What about the Netra T1-105? That'd do it.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 10/02/2013 05:50 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Good to hear that! Something I've been considering for a while is that
if they were to join, should we invite their whole userbase to the
HECnet mailing list or possibly just the EISNER adminds?
Uh? God no! I think anyone who are interested should subscribe themself
anyway, and let the rest be.
Johnny does NOT like email traffic. ;)
I personally think the admins would make a better choice, there are
lists like DECTEK for general DEChead stuff.
I think that should be entirely up to them.
You could perhaps create a notes group for HECnet on EISNER?
That's a good idea.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2013-10-02 23:08, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Depends...
Issue a "SHOW DEVICE" at the dead sargent and post the output.
Well...this could explain a bit: I was burning at 24x and throwing those
discs at a 12x drive.
Eh... And... The speed you write with have no relation to the data eventually ending up on the CD, nor the speed you read them off. The speed relates to the time it will take to read/write the disk...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, G. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:29:33 -0400, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I'm not even seeing a jumper for it on the drive. Drive is a crippled
Apple CR-507-C (Hey! It's the only working SCSI CD-ROM drive I have!)
Why don't you install over the network? It would be somewhat time consuming,
but trying to find a working CD-ROM drive isn't fast either.
That's what I'm thinking. ;)
Set up a Simh instance as a cluster boot server and the VAXstation as a
satellite without local paging or swapping, boot it, initialize its internal
disk, restore the B saveset onto it, copy the other savesets to the root
directory, shutdown, reboot from the local disk and proceed from there. :)
Hmmmm.
Otherwise, if you have a spare SCSI disk, you could dump the installation
image onto it (e.g. with dd) and use it as if it were a CD-ROM.
I hae a spare SCSI disk...but no way to write the image to scsi disk other than VMS. The current VMS install albeit touchy would work for that.
Otherwise, if you have an Infoserver (either hardware or software) use it. :)
HTH,
G.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2013-10-02 21:31, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Brian, how do you think this is going? Are we going to get them to hook =
up?
I do believe so. There are some other things concerning Eisner that need
to be addressed before connection to HECnet (not involving the connection)
but I'm not at liberty to discuss them publicly. It's nothing ominous, so
just sit tight.
Good to hear that! Something I've been considering for a while is that if they were to join, should we invite their whole userbase to the HECnet mailing list or possibly just the EISNER adminds?
Uh? God no! I think anyone who are interested should subscribe themself anyway, and let the rest be.
I personally think the admins would make a better choice, there are lists like DECTEK for general DEChead stuff.
I think that should be entirely up to them.
You could perhaps create a notes group for HECnet on EISNER?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:29:33 -0400, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I'm not even seeing a jumper for it on the drive. Drive is a crippled
Apple CR-507-C (Hey! It's the only working SCSI CD-ROM drive I have!)
Why don't you install over the network? It would be somewhat time consuming,
but trying to find a working CD-ROM drive isn't fast either.
Set up a Simh instance as a cluster boot server and the VAXstation as a
satellite without local paging or swapping, boot it, initialize its internal
disk, restore the B saveset onto it, copy the other savesets to the root
directory, shutdown, reboot from the local disk and proceed from there. :)
Otherwise, if you have a spare SCSI disk, you could dump the installation
image onto it (e.g. with dd) and use it as if it were a CD-ROM.
Otherwise, if you have an Infoserver (either hardware or software) use it. :)
HTH,
G.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Depends...
Issue a "SHOW DEVICE" at the dead sargent and post the output.
Well...this could explain a bit: I was burning at 24x and throwing those
discs at a 12x drive.
:rolleyes:
That generally has no correlation whatsoever. What's important is whether
or not the CD-rom can read the recordable media you're using. Some record-
able media works better than other in older CD-rom drives.
Hey, I haven't touched CD-ROM stuff in awhile! ;)
BTW, the drive you have installed, is it jumpered for 512 byte blocks???
I'm not even seeing a jumper for it on the drive. Drive is a crippled Apple CR-507-C (Hey! It's the only working SCSI CD-ROM drive I have!)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 10/02/2013 05:25 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Ick.
I mean, not vi, I use it from time to time...no sense in starting up
all of emacs when I need to edit /etc/resolv.conf, for example...but
still. If I don't get ACCESS to a system, I won't work on it, period.
I know just enough vi to accomplish basic tasks and move around.
Sorta like my Arabic actually.
Well that's the important part.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Ick.
I mean, not vi, I use it from time to time...no sense in starting up
all of emacs when I need to edit /etc/resolv.conf, for example...but
still. If I don't get ACCESS to a system, I won't work on it, period.
I know just enough vi to accomplish basic tasks and move around.
Sorta like my Arabic actually.
sampsa
On 2 Oct 2013, at 23:17, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
It's available packaged pretty much everywhere, but building it from
source borders on the trivial. It builds on most every reasonable
platform out there, and some that aren't so reasonable. This has been
the case for decades.
On that note, for any fellow OS X users here, I highly recommend Aquamacs -
it's the COCOAized (== OS X UI) version of Emacs, comes with pretty much
everything a normal emacs build comes with (including EDT emulation as
I discovered 10 minutes ago).
It's free of course: http://aquamacs.org
(I'm not involved in the project or anything, just REALLY like editor)
On 10/02/2013 05:17 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
Quite often I'm on a client server which won't let me install anything
outside the formal spec, never mind compile it. Usually the servers
don't even HAVE a C compiler installed.
So then it's traumatizing trip back to vi-land..
Ick.
I mean, not vi, I use it from time to time...no sense in starting up
all of emacs when I need to edit /etc/resolv.conf, for example...but
still. If I don't get ACCESS to a system, I won't work on it, period.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Depends...
Issue a "SHOW DEVICE" at the dead sargent and post the output.
Well...this could explain a bit: I was burning at 24x and throwing those
discs at a 12x drive.
:rolleyes:
That generally has no correlation whatsoever. What's important is whether
or not the CD-rom can read the recordable media you're using. Some record-
able media works better than other in older CD-rom drives.
BTW, the drive you have installed, is it jumpered for 512 byte blocks???
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 10/02/2013 05:10 PM, Gregg Levine wrote:
It is available on Slackware. I sometimes use it when circumstances
demand I use an editor with strangeness written into it. It is
available for the Debian Port on the Pi.
It's available packaged pretty much everywhere, but building it from
source borders on the trivial. It builds on most every reasonable
platform out there, and some that aren't so reasonable. This has been
the case for decades.
As for a mode which enables the same editing functions as the editors
for the PDP-11 and probably the PDP-10 systems.... Interesting.
Enabling it sounds interesting. I shall try that one next.
Well...emacs *originated* on the PDP-10 systems..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2 Oct 2013, at 22:51, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 10/02/2013 03:18 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Emacs has too high of a learning curve for me...with vi I prefer
vim.
Emacs has an OBSCENE learning curve. But if you give it the time
that it takes, it will reward you for the rest of your life.
I full agree with that sentiment, I can use Emacs to a basic degree
(I don't progam in elisp or anything) and it is a very effective
editor.
Shame it doesn't come as standard on all *nix boxes, I have to revert
to vi (UNIX) or nano/pico (most Linux distros)
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
Quite often I'm on a client server which won't let me install anything
outside the formal spec, never mind compile it. Usually the servers
don't even HAVE a C compiler installed.
So then it's traumatizing trip back to vi-land..
Hello!
It is available on Slackware. I sometimes use it when circumstances
demand I use an editor with strangeness written into it. It is
available for the Debian Port on the Pi.
As for a mode which enables the same editing functions as the editors
for the PDP-11 and probably the PDP-10 systems.... Interesting.
Enabling it sounds interesting. I shall try that one next.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 10/02/2013 03:18 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Emacs has too high of a learning curve for me...with vi I prefer
vim.
Emacs has an OBSCENE learning curve. But if you give it the time
that it takes, it will reward you for the rest of your life.
I full agree with that sentiment, I can use Emacs to a basic degree
(I don't progam in elisp or anything) and it is a very effective
editor.
Shame it doesn't come as standard on all *nix boxes, I have to revert
to vi (UNIX) or nano/pico (most Linux distros)
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Depends...
Issue a "SHOW DEVICE" at the dead sargent and post the output.
Well...this could explain a bit: I was burning at 24x and throwing those discs at a 12x drive.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 10/02/2013 04:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I will, as the cool kids say, "hook you up". Any progress on
arranging for a van to show up here mid-month?
No, sorry. Not yet.
Ok. Just keep me posted.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/02/2013 03:23 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I ran it very briefly between a MicroVAX-II and a VAXstation-2000 a
long time ago, just to play with it. It was neat when I got it
working,
but then it dawned on me that it really wasn't any different from
running it over TCP/IP. ;)
Meaning it works for a few minutes and then breaks completely? ;)
Not at all. I've run X since X10R4 (yes, X *TEN* release four), and
have never seen it actually break. What are you up to? ;)
Trying to use it on a PeeCee. ;)
Oh good heavens. Life's too short, man.
I need to GET workstations first! ;)
I will, as the cool kids say, "hook you up". Any progress on
arranging for a van to show up here mid-month?
-Dave
No, sorry. Not yet.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 10/02/2013 03:18 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Emacs has too high of a learning curve for me...with vi I prefer
vim.
Emacs has an OBSCENE learning curve. But if you give it the time
that it takes, it will reward you for the rest of your life.
I full agree with that sentiment, I can use Emacs to a basic degree
(I don't progam in elisp or anything) and it is a very effective
editor.
Shame it doesn't come as standard on all *nix boxes, I have to revert
to vi (UNIX) or nano/pico (most Linux distros)
Emacs builds on most everything, and is packaged for most (all?) Linux
distributions.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 10/02/2013 03:23 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I ran it very briefly between a MicroVAX-II and a VAXstation-2000 a
long time ago, just to play with it. It was neat when I got it
working,
but then it dawned on me that it really wasn't any different from
running it over TCP/IP. ;)
Meaning it works for a few minutes and then breaks completely? ;)
Not at all. I've run X since X10R4 (yes, X *TEN* release four), and
have never seen it actually break. What are you up to? ;)
Trying to use it on a PeeCee. ;)
Oh good heavens. Life's too short, man.
I need to GET workstations first! ;)
I will, as the cool kids say, "hook you up". Any progress on
arranging for a van to show up here mid-month?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Kari Uusim ki wrote:
On 2.10.2013 23:27, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Kari Uusim ki wrote:
On 2.10.2013 23:11, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Hello,
I finally managed yo get a console working on this...so I want to get it
on to HECnet again
However when booting from CD-ROM: %SYSBOOT-E-System version mismatch
found EXEC_INIT.EXE
What am I forgetting to do?
It would be much easier to diagnose if you would describe how you are
doing
the boot, with which parameters and in which phase you get the error
message.
Even better to post the whole booting session output from your console.
Simply: boot dka300 (DKA300 is the CD-ROM)
It does this shortly after loading the boot images. 7.2 gets
further...but it BUGCHKs before entering BACKUP.
Are you sure you have the SCSI bus intact and terminated accordingly?
And your installation media (CD-ROM) is known to be working?
It may not be terminated correctly. I can try setting the TERM jumper on the CD-ROM drive itself.
Kari
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
