Hi.
I've got the much underused domain recondite-computers.co.uk, which I thought I might as well offer up to anyone who wants a host name listed under it.
Currently only www.recondite-computers.co.uk and tardis.recondite-computers.co.uk are being used (the same virtual machine).
All the mail for the domain currently bounces via @tardis.decnet.org (as i never could get SMTP working on tardis), but i can add MX records if required.
As I can't think of anything to do with it (it was originally for a Star Cops wiki that never happened), I thought I'd offer it up to you lot.
Tony.
On 03/10/2013 03:01, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
Sweet! :-)
I'm thinking I'll stick with VMS 6.2. With patches.
I like trying appropriate vintage VMS for the machines. It's weird how the subtle differences creep in.
It's obvious at 6.1 how much TCP/IP, for example, is a 'bolt on'. Not required for the OS. DECnet and underlying clustering protocols working just fine on their own. Happy days.
It's also an excuse to break out the SPL and install some of the wonderful old tools and apps.
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
As for EDT, I have heard of it, but never found any details. Is there
a LINK you can provide to a manual for EDT? Briefly, what
additional features did EDT support over KED? If there were so
many extra features, please pick just 3 or even 2 from EDT that you
especially found to be so much of an improvement over KED?
I only ever learned to use about 1% of EDT and it was already way more
than KED. I think the turning point for EDT was V2.0 (which I think was
where it started to smell more like KED). The craziest thing is that it's
four editors (that I know of) in one:
(a) "change" mode with keypad enabled -- the KED-like mode that
most people actually use.
(b) "change" mode with NOKEYPAD -- which is not modeless, so it's
about as annoying as "vi" on Unix (e.g. "itext$" to insert text,
instead of just typing text), but naturally not compatible with
it or anything else.
(c) "change" mode on a hardcopy terminal -- kinky!!! maybe a
little more TECO-like, minus the power (so I guess maybe it's
more EDIT.SAV-like then?).
(d) line mode -- which is like pretty much any other line editor.
Besides that, EDT has a near-infinite number of features. Multiple
buffers are certainly a huge one. And yet, no LOCAL -- KED's greatest
single features!
John Wilson
D Bit
On 3 Oct 2013, at 07:02, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
I like to keep HECnet somewhat low volume, on topic, technical, yadda yadda. I don't want it to be a general forum for people to vent their hot air.
If the list grows larger, I will have to start policing more.
I agree, the volume of emails is growing. Many of these discussions would be better housed on a news or Eisner feed.
I second that - I think we should move general discussions to DECTEC as it's meant for exactly this.
I personally enjoy the witty responses to technical questions one gets in this list, but I have also noticed that some threads seem to spiral out of control - not that I'm wholly innocent myself :)
I like to keep HECnet somewhat low volume, on topic, technical, yadda yadda. I don't want it to be a general forum for people to vent their hot air.
If the list grows larger, I will have to start policing more.
I agree, the volume of emails is growing. Many of these discussions would be better housed on a news or Eisner feed.
>Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/02/2013 09:36 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Another MACRO project was to add additional variants
to the nine KED variants that DEC supports for RT-11
and RSTS/E. DEC supports the VT100, the VT52 and
the VT62. I added the VT420 which supports more than
24 lines as I mentioned in my last post. Having a "terminal"
with 44 lines was a huge advantage when I started to enhance
SDHX.SYS, as I find when I type this post under Netscape
and have about 36 lines in additional to all the tool bars.
What I'm curious about is why EDT never appeared under RT-11. (or did
it?) KED is respectable, but EDT is pure heaven.
While RT-11 distributions always included a file named "EDIT.SAV"
(or at least the ones I checked starting at V1 of RT-11 and ending
at V05.07 of RT-11), the last official release of TECO was in V04.00
of RT-11 (and the identical file was also included in the V05.00 and
the V05.07 releases).
The first release of KED that I can find was with V04.00 of RT-11
in 1980. Thereafter, Ked.SAV was always included in every release.
As for EDT, I have heard of it, but never found any details. Is there
a LINK you can provide to a manual for EDT? Briefly, what
additional features did EDT support over KED? If there were so
many extra features, please pick just 3 or even 2 from EDT that you
especially found to be so much of an improvement over KED?
I know that the standard DEC Ked.SAV release has a very small
cut / paste buffer which I have extended to over 16 KB along with
a working buffer of 22 KB. That can easily be changed back and
forth as needed if a user requires one of the buffers to be much larger.
At one point, although I knew how to define a MACRO (LEARN),
it was not clear how easy it was to execute that MACRO as many
times as I wanted to, so I no longer need to use TECO for even
complicated repeat things.
The HELP screens were not much help since they did not show the
current status of variable things such as:
(a) The names of OPEN files
(b) The current search string
(c) The current search settings
Since I added support to Ked.SAV for the VT420 with more than
24 lines (the new variant name is K42.SAV), I find K42 to be much
more useful. It can also handle up to 255 columns, although even
under the Win32 variant of Ersatz-11, the maximum my video card
and monitor will support is 69 lines by 199 columns. Since I almost
always prefer to use the DOS variant of Ersatz-11, I normally use the
largest screen sizes which my video card supports in FULL SCREEN:
50 lines by 80 columns
44 lines by 132 columns
As for the size of a file, KED can handle an input file of up to 16 MB
and an output file of up to 16 MB.
And what is the single feature under EDT which you like the most
which KED does not support?
Jerome Fine
On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Sampsa Laine wrote:
(Seriously. I can't run unzip or tar...but I can run pico!)
PICO? I wouldn't mind a copy of that for HILANT, it's a great little simple editor.
Yeah. It really is. I'll upload it after I toss the VAXstation on the UPS in ~10 minutes or so if not less.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Thu, 3 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
Sweet! :-)
I'm thinking I'll stick with VMS 6.2. With patches.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Sweet! :-)
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Oct 2, 2013, at 9:50 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
There! Got it!
$ sh us/fu
OpenVMS User Processes at 2-OCT-2013 21:49:32.06
Total number of users = 1, number of processes = 2
Username Process Name PID Terminal
SYSTEM SYSTEM 0000010C OPA0:
SYSTEM _TNA1: 00000117 TNA1: (Host: 10.10.10.21 Port: 41690 )
$ sh sys
OpenVMS V6.2 on node MOIRA 2-OCT-2013 21:49:35.82 Uptime 0 00:31:27
I can only run included editors...or pico. All of the others were built for newer VMS. ;)
(Seriously. I can't run unzip or tar...but I can run pico!)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
There! Got it!
$ sh us/fu
OpenVMS User Processes at 2-OCT-2013 21:49:32.06
Total number of users = 1, number of processes = 2
Username Process Name PID Terminal
SYSTEM SYSTEM 0000010C OPA0:
SYSTEM _TNA1: 00000117 TNA1: (Host: 10.10.10.21 Port: 41690 )
$ sh sys
OpenVMS V6.2 on node MOIRA 2-OCT-2013 21:49:35.82 Uptime 0 00:31:27
I can only run included editors...or pico. All of the others were built for newer VMS. ;)
(Seriously. I can't run unzip or tar...but I can run pico!)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Hello!
Okay. I'll think about it.
Nice line of reasoning off list you sent me......
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
After discussions with Dave, I've realised that DECTEC already provides a similar "random chatter" function, so will kill the Google Group as it's unnecessary.
I recommend everyone joins DECTEC though: http://dectec.info
sampsa
After discussions with Dave, I've realised that DECTEC already provides a similar "random chatter" function, so will kill the Google Group as it's unnecessary.
I recommend everyone joins DECTEC though: http://dectec.info
sampsa
Hello!
Right.
The group you mentioned however is busy......
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
On 3 Oct 2013, at 02:20, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
I agree. So far my posts have left out that problem and it will stay that way.
Sampsa ignore my posting to that group of yours, and well do with it
what you want..............
However the other problem is one of venting the occasional need for an
off topic example of wit.
-----
HECnet.random is DESIGNED for random wit and tangential stories about yetis etc.
I just think the people on the main HECnet group are an intelligent, friendly and pragmatic bunch, and would love to have a more social venue to talk with them, rather than annoy BQT :)
On 3 Oct 2013, at 02:20, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
I agree. So far my posts have left out that problem and it will stay that way.
Sampsa ignore my posting to that group of yours, and well do with it
what you want..............
However the other problem is one of venting the occasional need for an
off topic example of wit.
-----
HECnet.random is DESIGNED for random wit and tangential stories about yetis etc.
I just think the people on the main HECnet group are an intelligent, friendly and pragmatic bunch, and would love to have a more social venue to talk with them, rather than annoy BQT :)
Hello!
I agree. So far my posts have left out that problem and it will stay that way.
Sampsa ignore my posting to that group of yours, and well do with it
what you want..............
However the other problem is one of venting the occasional need for an
off topic example of wit.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2013-10-03 01:51, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/02/2013 07:48 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
We really don't need ANOTHER one. We have plenty. The one where
we all want to talk is the one where talking is not welcome, and
the one that was created specifically FOR talking is the one we
never use.
Lack of a list is not the problem here.
Ironic really. But I suppose we could encourage people to sign up to
Dectek, if the Random list gets no traffic I'll just delete it.
I don't run mailman on my mail server (and am nowhere near it, SSH
over 3G sucks) so this was the simplest setup.
Don't get me wrong, I (and others I'm sure) appreciate the thought.
It's just that the lack of a list really isn't the issue. Either this
list has to become more hospitable to the friendly chatting that every
one of us very obviously wants to do, or we have to move that friendly
chatting to the other list and get into the habit of keeping it there.
Shit...at this rate it'd be easier to make THIS the "friendly
chatting" list for the socialization of the group of friends that have
formed around HECnet, and create a separate list for zero-noise hecnet
operations traffic.
Johnny? Your thoughts?
That will not happen. People are subscribe to hecnet for it is the forum
about hecnet, decnet and dec computers. In a wider scope, other relics can
also be somewhat on topic.
Changing the purpose of this list does not make sense for the majority. And
I would unsubscribe everyone before retargeting the list.
The majority of people subscribed are not posting much. Also, I try to keep
a very tight ship, so that spammers don't manage to post. I think I've been
fairly successful at that (I have blocked about 60.000 spam posts to the
hecnet list over the years).
I don't mind a little social life here, and I think the latest threads shows
as much. I occasionally contact individuals when I think it is going too
far, but I don't do that much policing at the moment.
However, if the list would to get 200 new subscribers in short order, who
were more looking for a social channel than technical discussions, I would
definitely have to clamp down. The signal to noise ration is at an
acceptable level at the moment, but I don't want it to drop more.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I don't mind a little social life here, and I think the latest threads shows as much. I occasionally contact individuals when I think it is going too far, but I don't do that much policing at the moment.
However, if the list would to get 200 new subscribers in short order, who were more looking for a social channel than technical discussions, I would definitely have to clamp down. The signal to noise ration is at an acceptable level at the moment, but I don't want it to drop more.
This exactly why I rolled hecnet.random - so people can be politely told to move a thread to a more suitable venue, i.e. hecnet.random or DECTEC.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/02/2013 06:57 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Write it directly.
Backup can do that right? I don't have to right disk images to disk in
VMS too often. ;)
No. This is what I've done to write tape images to tapes:
$ INIT/ERASE MUA0: ""
$ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=512 MUA0:
$ COPY <filename> MUA0:
$ DISMOUNT/UNLOAD MUA0:
Can anyone (Brian S?) say if this will work with disk as the
destination device as well? I'd guess yes, but I haven't done it
myself, at least not recently enough that I remember.
-Dave
Crap. My only good disk (the quantum was DEAD++ it seems) is just about 60M too small. Which is weird as the drive says it's 2G despite on the casing.
Meaning I can either copy the files off manually to a blank disk...or I can stick with VMS 6.3 instead of 7.3. ;)
I did check the jumpers...none indicate a size limit
So:
$ mou/for dka100:
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST mounted on _VAXLET$DKA100:
$ copy vaxvms062.iso dka100:
I can find a way to get to 7.3 later...or maybe i'll just stick with 6.2.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2013-10-03 01:51, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/02/2013 07:48 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
We really don't need ANOTHER one. We have plenty. The one where
we all want to talk is the one where talking is not welcome, and
the one that was created specifically FOR talking is the one we
never use.
Lack of a list is not the problem here.
Ironic really. But I suppose we could encourage people to sign up to
Dectek, if the Random list gets no traffic I'll just delete it.
I don't run mailman on my mail server (and am nowhere near it, SSH
over 3G sucks) so this was the simplest setup.
Don't get me wrong, I (and others I'm sure) appreciate the thought.
It's just that the lack of a list really isn't the issue. Either this
list has to become more hospitable to the friendly chatting that every
one of us very obviously wants to do, or we have to move that friendly
chatting to the other list and get into the habit of keeping it there.
Shit...at this rate it'd be easier to make THIS the "friendly
chatting" list for the socialization of the group of friends that have
formed around HECnet, and create a separate list for zero-noise hecnet
operations traffic.
Johnny? Your thoughts?
That will not happen. People are subscribe to hecnet for it is the forum about hecnet, decnet and dec computers. In a wider scope, other relics can also be somewhat on topic.
Changing the purpose of this list does not make sense for the majority. And I would unsubscribe everyone before retargeting the list.
The majority of people subscribed are not posting much. Also, I try to keep a very tight ship, so that spammers don't manage to post. I think I've been fairly successful at that (I have blocked about 60.000 spam posts to the hecnet list over the years).
I don't mind a little social life here, and I think the latest threads shows as much. I occasionally contact individuals when I think it is going too far, but I don't do that much policing at the moment.
However, if the list would to get 200 new subscribers in short order, who were more looking for a social channel than technical discussions, I would definitely have to clamp down. The signal to noise ration is at an acceptable level at the moment, but I don't want it to drop more.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Oops. Google groups. I don't trust 'em to not advertise with my data.
Same damn thing. Different suits.
Precisely. Same crappy UIs, too. ;)
Yes.
It blows dog. And you know what happens when something blows dog: The
only one who's happy about it is the dog.
LOL. Ok, if an alternative group for social chat comes up (DECTek, 'rebranding' this group and adding hecnet.serious or something), I'll kill the Google Group.
Thing is that those take like 3 minutes to set up, so I figured why not.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 10/02/2013 06:57 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Write it directly.
Backup can do that right? I don't have to right disk images to disk in
VMS too often. ;)
No. This is what I've done to write tape images to tapes:
$ INIT/ERASE MUA0: ""
$ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=512 MUA0:
$ COPY <filename> MUA0:
$ DISMOUNT/UNLOAD MUA0:
Can anyone (Brian S?) say if this will work with disk as the
destination device as well? I'd guess yes, but I haven't done it
myself, at least not recently enough that I remember.
-Dave
Crap. My only good disk (the quantum was DEAD++ it seems) is just about 60M too small. Which is weird as the drive says it's 2G despite on the casing.
Meaning I can either copy the files off manually to a blank disk...or I can stick with VMS 6.3 instead of 7.3. ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Hello!
Google Groups and Yahooie Groups have nothing important together. In
fact GG is better conceived of and all that, then those idiots at YG.
In fact they just changed their methods of doing things, and are
insulting a very large amount of people with it.
However GG's only problem is that they will let anyone in there....
(And that wasn't an insult aimed at you Sampsa.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 10/02/2013 07:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
What's wrong Cory? Peeved that you did not think of it first?
No. I just don't like Yahoo and their related products.
Oops. Google groups. I don't trust 'em to not advertise with my data.
Same damn thing. Different suits.
Precisely. Same crappy UIs, too. ;)
Yes.
It blows dog. And you know what happens when something blows dog: The
only one who's happy about it is the dog.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Shit...at this rate it'd be easier to make THIS the "friendly
chatting" list for the socialization of the group of friends that have
formed around HECnet, and create a separate list for zero-noise hecnet
operations traffic.
Johnny? Your thoughts?
Actually that's a great idea. I'm all for it.
Sampsa
On 10/02/2013 07:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
What's wrong Cory? Peeved that you did not think of it first?
No. I just don't like Yahoo and their related products.
Oops. Google groups. I don't trust 'em to not advertise with my data.
Same damn thing. Different suits.
Precisely. Same crappy UIs, too. ;)
Yes.
It blows dog. And you know what happens when something blows dog: The
only one who's happy about it is the dog.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 10/02/2013 07:51 PM, Mark Wickens wrote:
Eurgh. Can you pick something OTHER than google groups? ;)
Nah, too lazy.
I'm not at all interested in another annoying Google Groups
I think what we need is another hecnet list to subscribe to that has a
suitable title meaning 'important hecnet stuff'.
hecnet-notice at update.uu.se for example?
then we can all merrily carry on ranting here and set dancing unicorns
to appear when we get a notice email
You and I had exactly the same idea at pretty much exactly the same
time! :-)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
