- HECnet - lists @ Update

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/08/2013 08:40 AM, Joe Ferraro wrote: Heh... this is obviously the way we did it in UNIX decades ago... I always complained about trying to use UNIX for the very thing it seemingly opposed (strict user controls) ... ... and we still do this; I can't keep users out of the OS an in the app... argh... I keep users out of OSs just fine. Need a consultant? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-08 15:54, Sampsa Laine wrote: But some UNIX getty's DO speak Hayes AT so it's not that far-fetched an idea.. So, how do the Unix getty know that there is a hayes modem on the serial line, and not a terminal? Config files and/or command line options - some of them even know how to pass FAXES along to a fax receiving program. Not saying this should be in VMS, just that it has existed in the real world for a long time. Essentially, telling getty what kind of equipment is attached. In VMS you would not allow LOGINOUT to handle a port where something like a fax was installed. Instead you'd run the fax program, and have that handle the port. Using getty in this way can be considered either very clever, or very ugly, depending on your preferences and view on how to do things... But essentially, you'll have a getty which can do and understand a lot of different things. Johnny

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sixel graphics viewer

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 8 Oct 2013, at 16:03, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote: Hi all, For those interested in Sixels, I ported the code (quick and dirty) from ftp://ftp.cs.utk.edu/pub/shuford/terminal/all_about_sixels.txt to Javascript and combined it with Flot and a JQuery terminal: http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sg/sg.html You then get a Javascript terminal, with a display function; some examples: js> example$ js> display(example$) js> display(Array(5).join('CA at ACGOG')) js> display('HECNET') and js> display(digital$) Considering the run time to display the latter image, photos should perhaps not be too detailed... Cool - any change you could add my logo (B&W picture of angry monkey from Family Guy)? That would totally make my day.

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by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

On 08/10/2013 14:54, Sampsa Laine wrote: But some UNIX getty's DO speak Hayes AT so it's not that far-fetched an idea.. So, how do the Unix getty know that there is a hayes modem on the serial line, and not a terminal? Config files and/or command line options - some of them even know how to pass FAXES along to a fax receiving program. Not saying this should be in VMS, just that it has existed in the real world for a long time. I have a couple of scripts which I think came from DECUS originally and there is definitely an FAQ on the subject. I can share these for anyone who is interested (easy enough to put in the archive on SLAVE). You can guarantee you will need to do some tweaking however! -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

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sixel graphics viewer

by e.olofsen＠xs4all.nl

Hi all, For those interested in Sixels, I ported the code (quick and dirty) from ftp://ftp.cs.utk.edu/pub/shuford/terminal/all_about_sixels.txt to Javascript and combined it with Flot and a JQuery terminal: http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sg/sg.html You then get a Javascript terminal, with a display function; some examples: js> example$ js> display(example$) js> display(Array(5).join('CA at ACGOG')) js> display('HECNET') and js> display(digital$) Considering the run time to display the latter image, photos should perhaps not be too detailed... Erik PS: For now, palette[0] is used to set the background color. On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 02:55:19PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote: On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:52, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: The second part of this is actually making the files visible in the specific library. For this users need write access to the directory (and possibly extend access). In order to find the files, you need read access. For removing files from a directory, you need write access to the directory. So obviously, you either allow both entering and removing, or neither. That's what I ended up doing, I trust there aren't too many griefers on HECnet that'll go and delete random files. But seriously, if you find something cool or want to post an image of yourself, send it to CHIMPY:[.DROPBOX]. I've got a few alpha EXEs up there and a couple of pics of myself in SIXEL and JPEG formats.. sampsa

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by sampsa＠mac.com

But some UNIX getty's DO speak Hayes AT so it's not that far-fetched an idea.. So, how do the Unix getty know that there is a hayes modem on the serial line, and not a terminal? Config files and/or command line options - some of them even know how to pass FAXES along to a fax receiving program. Not saying this should be in VMS, just that it has existed in the real world for a long time.

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by gerry77＠mail.com

On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 15:17:21 +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote: As far as I know VMS doesn't really speak Hayes AT. The only example of VMS speaking Hayes I know of is when using SET HOST/DTE with something like a /MODEM=xxx qualifier and the corresponding user-provided DTE_xxx.EXE in SYS$LIBRARY. See SYS$EXAMPLES:DTE* for more information. :) OpenVMS VAX V7.2 has a couple DTE_*.MAR sample files, while OpenVMS Alpha V8.3 has a nice DTE_AT.C dialer. Maybe other versions have others and if I'm not wrong there should be something quite useful in the DECUS libraries too... HTH, :) G.

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by bob＠jfcl.com

Would you expect VMS to spew out hayes commands when you connect a terminal? Actually the VMS dialer interface is well documented (isn't all of VMS like that??) and long, long ago I wrote a dialer for Hayes modems. It lets you use the SET HOST/DTE/DIAL=... command with Hayes compatible modems. If you really need it I could probably find a copy. Bob

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by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-08 15:27, Sampsa Laine wrote: Would you expect VMS to spew out hayes commands when you connect a terminal? Also, it wouldn't have to do it on EVERY port, something like SET TERM/HAYES TTA0: would enable Hayes phone answering on that port only. That could definitely be done, except I wouldn't expect any answering as such done in any other way than auto-answering. It would be a bit silly to perform the answering manually, even though you could in theory do it. Also, even though the Hayes command set is sortof standard, there are slight variations, which makes it rather tricky to do something generic. Johnny

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by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-08 15:25, Sampsa Laine wrote: Uh... Why would it? There is no difference between a modem and a terminal here. They both come in to the machine over a serial line, and then VMS expects you to log in. Yes, the modem should be set up correctly, and then it's just a piece of equipment in the communication path, which is totally transparent. The wiggling of the DCD is how a modem (or terminal) tell the computer that it is connected. Would you expect VMS to spew out hayes commands when you connect a terminal? No, this is why I advice to set the modem up with sane defaults before hooking it up :) But some UNIX getty's DO speak Hayes AT so it's not that far-fetched an idea.. So, how do the Unix getty know that there is a hayes modem on the serial line, and not a terminal? Johnny

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by sampsa＠mac.com

Would you expect VMS to spew out hayes commands when you connect a terminal? Also, it wouldn't have to do it on EVERY port, something like SET TERM/HAYES TTA0: would enable Hayes phone answering on that port only.

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by sampsa＠mac.com

Uh... Why would it? There is no difference between a modem and a terminal here. They both come in to the machine over a serial line, and then VMS expects you to log in. Yes, the modem should be set up correctly, and then it's just a piece of equipment in the communication path, which is totally transparent. The wiggling of the DCD is how a modem (or terminal) tell the computer that it is connected. Would you expect VMS to spew out hayes commands when you connect a terminal? No, this is why I advice to set the modem up with sane defaults before hooking it up :) But some UNIX getty's DO speak Hayes AT so it's not that far-fetched an idea.. sampsa

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by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-08 15:17, Sampsa Laine wrote: Yeah, I'd hook up a terminal first, set ATS0=1 (autoanswer) and then store the defaults in the modem's NVRAM. That way the modem just raises the DCD line when a connection has been made. As far as I know VMS doesn't really speak Hayes AT. Uh... Why would it? There is no difference between a modem and a terminal here. They both come in to the machine over a serial line, and then VMS expects you to log in. Yes, the modem should be set up correctly, and then it's just a piece of equipment in the communication path, which is totally transparent. The wiggling of the DCD is how a modem (or terminal) tell the computer that it is connected. Would you expect VMS to spew out hayes commands when you connect a terminal? Johnny sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 8 Oct 2013, at 15:10, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote: I have a brand new US Robotics HST and Telebit Trailblazer I saved from the day. If I wack one on the serial point of a VAX can it take calls? :) Sent from my iPhone On 8 Oct 2013, at 8:35 pm, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time...

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by sampsa＠mac.com

So if I install this thing (it'll cost me about 15 euros a month) how much use do you think I'll get (i.e. how many inbound calls). Mark, this would be a great demo at various vintage events, ISDN over GSM talking to a DECserver that connects to a VAXcluster :) sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:44, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote: Great! I'll give it a whirl when I get outta work this evening (assuming time permits!). I'll dial out with my Commodore 64 :) On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote: On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

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Public "dropbox" type directory?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-08 15:12, Tim Sneddon wrote: On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote: On 2013-10-08 01:03, Sampsa Laine wrote: What would be the correct security settings for a directory that: - Allows anyone to add a file - Anyone can read any file - Nobody can delete, edit or replace existing files. Thinking of setting this up on CHIMPY for people to store nifty stuff they find. I read through the discussion, but didn't see any attempt at an analysis of this, so I'll try to make some comments here. Huh? I provided commands and all to do what was asked. *Analysis* Johnny

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by sampsa＠mac.com

Yeah, I'd hook up a terminal first, set ATS0=1 (autoanswer) and then store the defaults in the modem's NVRAM. That way the modem just raises the DCD line when a connection has been made. As far as I know VMS doesn't really speak Hayes AT. sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 8 Oct 2013, at 15:10, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote: I have a brand new US Robotics HST and Telebit Trailblazer I saved from the day. If I wack one on the serial point of a VAX can it take calls? :) Sent from my iPhone On 8 Oct 2013, at 8:35 pm, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time...

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Public "dropbox" type directory?

by tim＠sneddon.id.au

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-10-08 01:03, Sampsa Laine wrote: What would be the correct security settings for a directory that: - Allows anyone to add a file - Anyone can read any file - Nobody can delete, edit or replace existing files. Thinking of setting this up on CHIMPY for people to store nifty stuff they find. I read through the discussion, but didn't see any attempt at an analysis of this, so I'll try to make some comments here. Huh? I provided commands and all to do what was asked. Regards, Tim.

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by snaggs＠mac.com

I have a brand new US Robotics HST and Telebit Trailblazer I saved from the day. If I wack one on the serial point of a VAX can it take calls? :) Sent from my iPhone On 8 Oct 2013, at 8:35 pm, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time...

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Can I email images to HECNet?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-05 10:16, Daniel Soderstrom wrote: I've having trouble setting up UCX and emailed a screenshot but nothing came through like it usually does. There is a size limit of mails on hecnet, which probably prevented you. Send a link instead, and put the image somewhere else... Johnny

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Public "dropbox" type directory?

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:52, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: The second part of this is actually making the files visible in the specific library. For this users need write access to the directory (and possibly extend access). In order to find the files, you need read access. For removing files from a directory, you need write access to the directory. So obviously, you either allow both entering and removing, or neither. That's what I ended up doing, I trust there aren't too many griefers on HECnet that'll go and delete random files. But seriously, if you find something cool or want to post an image of yourself, send it to CHIMPY:[.DROPBOX]. I've got a few alpha EXEs up there and a couple of pics of myself in SIXEL and JPEG formats.. sampsa

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Public "dropbox" type directory?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-10-08 01:03, Sampsa Laine wrote: What would be the correct security settings for a directory that: - Allows anyone to add a file - Anyone can read any file - Nobody can delete, edit or replace existing files. Thinking of setting this up on CHIMPY for people to store nifty stuff they find. I read through the discussion, but didn't see any attempt at an analysis of this, so I'll try to make some comments here. In comparison to Unix, protections in VMS (and RSX) work a little different. Anyone can always create a file on a volume, unless the volume ownership and protection generally prevents you. File in VMS and RSX do not need to exist in any directory.

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OpenVMS 6.1 Cluster - Alpha not booting to form cluster

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Mark Wickens writes: On 08/10/2013 12:15, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Mark Wickens writes: On 08/10/2013 11:33, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Mark Wickens writes: Just wondered if anyone would know why my Alpha when booting hangs at the point where it attempting to determine whether to join or form a VMS cluster? It is clustered with a VAX - if I boot the VAX first the VAX creates a cluster which the Alpha will then happily join when turned on, but if I power the Alpha without the VAX it just hangs. Both are running an install straight from an original VMS 6.1 installation disk. Just 2 nodes? What's your quorum configuration? Post: $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW VOTES $ MCR SYSGEN SHOW EXPECTED_VOTES ..from each node. I think you, sir, may have found the issue: On RIPLEY (the Alpha): $ mcr sysgen show votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes $ mcr sysgen show expected votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- EXPECTED_VOTES 2 1 1 127 Votes On DALLAS (the VAX): $ mcr sysgen show votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- VOTES 1 1 0 127 Votes $ mcr sysgen show expected votes Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic -------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- ------- EXPECTED_VOTES 1 1 1 127 Votes OK. First, 2 node clusters can be problematic due to not realy having the necessary number of node to properly form a cluster. The minimum is three nodes to form a cluster. However, let's look at what you said. You said that the VAX boots and forms a cluster. It has one vote and the expected votes is one. Therefore, when you boot it, it sees the necessary number of votes to continue booting and form a cluster. You also said that Alpha boots and hangs trying to form a cluster. It too has one vote but its expected votes is two. Therefore, until the VAX has booted, the number of votes is not present and the Alpha will hang. If you lower expected votes, the Alpha wil boot just like the VAX does. I would caution you read the VMS documentation regarding clusters and how to determine quorum. You risk, in the configuration of two nodes where each has one vote and expected votes of one, partitioning the cluster resulting in data corruption. Thanks for the reminder of these issues. To be honest my experience with clustering is limited and generally specific to satellite based configurations. In this case I may make the VAX a satellite of the Alpha with the local disk acting as page/swap. Am I right in thinking then that the relationship changes somewhat in that the Alpha will always need to be up but the VAX can come and go as it pleases (with the correct shutdown sequence)? All nodes: EXPECTED_VOTES = 1 Alpha: VOTES = 1 VAX/satellites: VOTES = 0 The VAX and any satellites can come and go. You may see some delay on the Alpha as these transitions occur. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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by sampsa＠mac.com

Oh it's not installed yet, I'm not in Finland at the moment. Need to get the phone and the circuit switched data number (I HOPE operators still do them).. Then if you have a similar phone and dont mind the costs, you can bundle upto 4 channels into one 56 kbps V.110 channel... sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:44, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote: Great! I'll give it a whirl when I get outta work this evening (assuming time permits!). I'll dial out with my Commodore 64 :) On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote: On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

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by jferraro＠gmail.com

Great! I'll give it a whirl when I get outta work this evening (assuming time permits!). I'll dial out with my Commodore 64 :) On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Mark Wickens wrote: On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

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by sampsa＠mac.com

I remember you calling into CHIMPY with that 2400 baud Amstrad thing, good times. But the Nokia 9210 is actually pretty cool, V.110 is like wireless ISDN plus if the other side has an analogue modem, the operator has a modem pool that converts the signal. Ideal for this use I think (next to zero operating costs, easy connection, flexible, can't get hit by lightning*) * Seriously, the place in Hila has taken a few harsh hits during storms, the electrical system was protected but the telephone wiring wasn't, high voltage jumps from PSTN to Skype base station to switch via ethernet, 1000+ euros damage. So we decided to take all the telephone wiring out and just use Skype. Nobody has noticed any difference. sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 8 Oct 2013, at 14:39, Mark Wickens wrote: On 08/10/2013 13:35, Joe Ferraro wrote: Yeah, that's the way to go. I'm tempted to buy an ancient Nokia GSM phone, get a data number for it and a serial adapter, and plug it into my DS300..9600 bps dial up access, woo hoo! I kinda still enjoy dial up... are there any active modems on 'the net'? Sampsa, you and I tried this once, a long time back... not sure if we ever connected, but I didn't have POTS at the time... You can try SLAVE which is connected via a dial up. Not tried it in a while but it should still work OK. +44 15394 22404 Regards, Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

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