- HECnet - lists @ Update

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I had this recently and it turned out to be a misplaced card on the Qbus. In other words not in the proper serpentine order. Check the Qbus sequence and also try removing some cards. Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner- hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky Sent: 15 November 2013 03:55 To: hecnet at update.uu.se Subject: [HECnet] Cluster annoyances Hello all, I'm trying to get a MicroVAX II to cluster with MORIA. It's not going so well: MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:48:59.18 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on MOIRA LANACP MOP V3 Downline Load Service Volunteered to load request on ESA0 from MOYA Requested file: DISK$MOIRA:<SYS10.>[SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]NISCS_LOAD.EXE MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:49:04.72 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on MOIRA LANACP MOP V3 Downline Load Service Load succeeded for MOYA on ESA0 System image, DISK$MOIRA:<SYS10.>[SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]NISCS_LOAD.EXE (VAX image) MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:50:58.07 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:50:58.07 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) received VAXcluster membership request from node MOYA MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:50:58.08 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:50:58.07 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) proposed addition of node MOYA MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:50:58.62 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:50:58.61 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) completed VAXcluster state transition MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:51:07.99 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:51:07.99 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) lost connection to node MOYA MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:51:27.59 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:51:27.49 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) timed-out lost connection to node MOYA The moment it joins the cluster, it immediately loses connectivity. There's between 5 and 10 milliseconds of latency between the two...but that shouldn't matter...should it? As I don't have a SCSI Qbus adapter, and I didn't get the TK50+TQK50 with it, I can only MOP boot it. 60M disk is also not a lot. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 8 months

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Cluster annoyances

by b4＠gewt.net

Hello all, I'm trying to get a MicroVAX II to cluster with MORIA. It's not going so well: MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:48:59.18 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on MOIRA LANACP MOP V3 Downline Load Service Volunteered to load request on ESA0 from MOYA Requested file: DISK$MOIRA:<SYS10.>[SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]NISCS_LOAD.EXE MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:49:04.72 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on MOIRA LANACP MOP V3 Downline Load Service Load succeeded for MOYA on ESA0 System image, DISK$MOIRA:<SYS10.>[SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]NISCS_LOAD.EXE (VAX image) MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:50:58.07 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:50:58.07 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) received VAXcluster membership request from node MOYA MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:50:58.08 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:50:58.07 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) proposed addition of node MOYA MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:50:58.62 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:50:58.61 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) completed VAXcluster state transition MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:51:07.99 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:51:07.99 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) lost connection to node MOYA MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 14-NOV-2013 22:51:27.59 %%%%%%%%%%% 22:51:27.49 Node MOIRA (csid 00010001) timed-out lost connection to node MOYA The moment it joins the cluster, it immediately loses connectivity. There's between 5 and 10 milliseconds of latency between the two...but that shouldn't matter...should it? As I don't have a SCSI Qbus adapter, and I didn't get the TK50+TQK50 with it, I can only MOP boot it. 60M disk is also not a lot. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 8 months

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Messing with sixel and LA75 and SSTudoku

by e.olofsen＠xs4all.nl

Hi Sampsa, I added a few sentences and one image on the version on my website: http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sg/doc.html The last image takes just 2s on RULLFS to compose :) So at the end I end with the notion that Sixel graphics in e.g. XTerm may perhaps even have a future! Do you know another application? Erik On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:19:32PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote: Yeah I'll fire up Xnest in a week or so when I have the bandwidth :) Will send you PDFs of the laid out article. sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 3 Nov 2013, at 12:36, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote: Hi Sampsa, I made some corrections and I think it is ready, unless you have further suggestions for improvement. You can edit it as you like and add further screenshots (I don't think I have dtterm). Perhaps this depends on Mark Wickens' contribution. Is it something to put in http://retrotron.sampsa.com/magazine/ ? Or I can have a link to this material on my own web server? Files are attached. Erik On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 07:21:55PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote: Cool, that's like 2-3 pages of material. I could throw in a screenshot of DTTERM as well, and say this is how it looks on a real DEC VMS box..:) sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 2 Nov 2013, at 18:51, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote: Hi Sampsa, This is a first draft, where I have a reference to Mark's contribution. http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sg/doc.html Mark: would you perhaps like to be co-author? Erik On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 04:41:34PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote: Yeah go for it. The more the better. sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 1 Nov 2013, at 13:44, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote: Hi Sampsa, In case you think it is interesting, I can write something about my Sixel image viewer. See also below for something that may be fun for the Retrotron. (The implementation and the game rules are at alpha stage.) Erik --- It is hard to imagine, but perhaps even Captain Kirk sometimes played a Sudoku before boldly going where no man has gone before: http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sst/sudoku.html There are nine entities in the Sudoku chart, but a Starfleet ship may be a Galileo, Faerie Queene, or an Enterprise; a Klingon may be an ordinary one, a Commmander or a Super Commander. (This depends on a Greek-Latin square). The Sudoku is played backwards, because the Federation is under attack. Entities are removed at random if they take up a unique position. In a fight, the strength matters, but if you take up a unique position, you are trapped and may be destroyed. It was good that Kirk practiced in a game first, because in the first battle he lets the Galileo fight with a Klingon Super Commander. Next there are some easy battles; in the one but last battle, a Romulan ship disappeared from Quadrant 1 - 2, Sector 3 - 1. Captain Kirk did not notice this in the next battle at Quadrant 1 - 2. The Enterprise has nowhere to go, but the Commander can move to Sector 3 - 1, and Kirk loses another ship... He then decides he might be better at real missions :) --- On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 10:39:56PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote: Mark, Sorry, no DECwrite, I won't even deal with docx :) ASCII txt and RTF with basic formatting only, and if you want pictures / diagrams, mark the spot where you'd like it wrt to the text with [* ... *], for example: --- SNIP --- This is my newest MLP, Candlestick, still in it's box: [** candle.jpg **] I prefer to keep my MLPs boxed since I don't feel I am ready for the type of relationship touching would entail. --- SNIP --- (No offence to bronies out there intended, just had to make something up the spot.) Then just send me a ZIP of text and all the images. If you have an editor that can create RTFD, you can dispense with the [* ... *] notation as the doc will have the pics in the right place (remember that RTFDs are bundles and need to be zipped). The magazine is laid out in columns like a "proper" magazine (easier to read) but it's hard to promise EXACTLY where a picture will go in your submission. We'll run the submission by you before going live of course, and correct it as much as possible sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 30 Oct 2013, at 22:28, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote: On 30/10/2013 20:26, Sampsa Laine wrote: This version specifically, at the start of the DEChead/HECnet etc section of the magazine: http://www.sampsa.com/DECMonkey.jpg sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 30 Oct 2013, at 22:12, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: This is going in the exit retrotron magazine. sampsa <sampsa at mac.com> mobile +358 40 7208932 On 30 Oct 2013, at 17:53, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote: https://db.tt/G5b8sbRX Sent from Samsung Mobile Cool. I may get round to writing you something at some point. Do you accept DECwrite files? ;) Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo <sixel.zip>

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bob＠jfcl.com

`tcpdump -vvvi tap0` Yep, I'll try that tonight. Gotta go now. You bridged tap0 to your external interface, right? No. In fact, that's the whole point - to keep HECnet traffic off of my real Ethernet. tap0 is connected to only two things - Johnny's bridge, and QNA-1 (xqb on simh). QNA-0 (xq on simh) is connected to my physical Ethernet. VMS sees both and, if necessary, routes DECnet across them. Bob

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bob＠jfcl.com

Recent simh versions no longer need any external program to work with tap devices. Mark - I was just looking at this. Looks like in simh you now say attach xq tap:tap0 What does that do that attach xq tap0 does not? Does the first one make simh create the tap device? That doesn't really help in this case - the problem is that I need to run Johnny's bridge on tap0 too, so it needs to already exist before I start simh. tunctl is still the only answer. Thanks, Bob

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Bob Armstrong wrote: `ifconfig <interface> promisc` That's too easy :-) Sadly, it doesn't seem to fix anything. Both the bridge and simh are connected to tap0, apparently w/o error, but no messages seem to be going anywhere. `tcpdump -vvvi tap0` You bridged tap0 to your external interface, right? Bob -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bob＠jfcl.com

`ifconfig <interface> promisc` That's too easy :-) Sadly, it doesn't seem to fix anything. Both the bridge and simh are connected to tap0, apparently w/o error, but no messages seem to be going anywhere. Bob

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bob＠jfcl.com

I know that I've seen a patch to simh in the past, to connect to HECnet directly from simh, Yep, I've seen that too, although I don't know the current status. Maybe Mark can put it in the production simh release ? In the meantime, the tap device solves the problem just fine (or at least it used to). Bob

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013, Bob Armstrong wrote: Try setting the interfaces promiscuous. Ummm, what's the magic command to do that? `ifconfig <interface> promisc` Bob -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bob＠jfcl.com

Recent simh versions no longer need any external program to work with tap devices. I saw that - simh v3.9, I think. I'm still using 3.8-3 (I have some local patches that I don't want to redo just yet). It's a good suggestion, but the fact is that the old simh worked just fine with Ubuntu 10.04 - it's the upgrade to 12.04 that broke things. Bob

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bob＠jfcl.com

Try setting the interfaces promiscuous. Ummm, what's the magic command to do that? Bob

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bqt＠softjar.se

Mark, I don't think Bob suggested he used some special program to connect simh to a tap device. What he did was use my bridge to connect his machines to HECnet, which is a step on the other side of the tap device. By the way, Bob, I know that I've seen a patch to simh in the past, to connect to HECnet directly from simh, without the addition of the bridge program. Maybe something to use? Johnny On 2013-11-10 18:53, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: Hi Bob, Recent simh versions no longer need any external program to work with tap devices. There is integrated support for tap devices, and there also is support for the more generic vde networking capabilities. The latest source is available at: https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip To build on Ubuntu 12.0.4 the first time, as root you may need to: # apt-get install libpcap-dev # apt-get install libvdeplug2-dev Then as a normal user: $ make vax -Mark *From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] *On Behalf Of *Bob Armstrong *Sent:* Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:08 AM *To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE *Subject:* [HECnet] HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ... It s not exactly a DEC problem, but I know there are several people on HECnet running simh under Linux and I m hoping somebody has already figured this one out. I used to run simh (vax and pdp11 both) under Ubuntu 10.04 using Johnny s bridge program and a tap device to connect to HECnet. sudo tunctl -t tap0 sudo ifconfig tap0 up sudo -b /usr/local/bin/hecnet-bridge 4711 the bridge.conf file (I ll post it if anybody wants) bridges tap0 with Psilo.update.uu.se and in simh I would say set xqb enabled attach xqb tap0 and it worked great. Everybody was happy :-) BUT, now I ve upgraded to Ubuntu 12.04 (Ok, I m not an early adopter!) and, as you might guess, it doesn t work anymore. No errors and the tap0 device looks OK bob at falsetto:~/legato$ ifconfig tap0 tap0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr c6:36:37:eb:16:7a UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:500 RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B) but nothing ever happens. No data seems to pass between the bridge program and simh. Is anybody else using Ubuntu? Did you run into this problem? Thanks, Bob -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by Mark＠infocomm.com

Hi Bob, Recent simh versions no longer need any external program to work with tap devices. There is integrated support for tap devices, and there also is support for the more generic vde networking capabilities. The latest source is available at: https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip To build on Ubuntu 12.0.4 the first time, as root you may need to: # apt-get install libpcap-dev # apt-get install libvdeplug2-dev Then as a normal user: $ make vax - Mark From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Bob Armstrong Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:08 AM To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: [HECnet] HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ... It s not exactly a DEC problem, but I know there are several people on HECnet running simh under Linux and I m hoping somebody has already figured this one out. I used to run simh (vax and pdp11 both) under Ubuntu 10.04 using Johnny s bridge program and a tap device to connect to HECnet. sudo tunctl -t tap0 sudo ifconfig tap0 up sudo -b /usr/local/bin/hecnet-bridge 4711 the bridge.conf file (I ll post it if anybody wants) bridges tap0 with Psilo.update.uu.se and in simh I would say set xqb enabled attach xqb tap0 and it worked great. Everybody was happy :-) BUT, now I ve upgraded to Ubuntu 12.04 (Ok, I m not an early adopter!) and, as you might guess, it doesn t work anymore. No errors and the tap0 device looks OK bob at falsetto:~/legato$ ifconfig tap0 tap0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr c6:36:37:eb:16:7a UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:500 RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B) but nothing ever happens. No data seems to pass between the bridge program and simh. Is anybody else using Ubuntu? Did you run into this problem? Thanks, Bob

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by b4＠gewt.net

Sent from my iPhone On 10 Nov 2013, at 12:08, "Bob Armstrong" <bob at jfcl.com> wrote: It s not exactly a DEC problem, but I know there are several people on HECnet running simh under Linux and I m hoping somebody has already figured this one out. I used to run simh (vax and pdp11 both) under Ubuntu 10.04 using Johnny s bridge program and a tap device to connect to HECnet. sudo tunctl -t tap0 sudo ifconfig tap0 up sudo -b /usr/local/bin/hecnet-bridge 4711 the bridge.conf file (I ll post it if anybody wants) bridges tap0 with Psilo.update.uu.se and in simh I would say set xqb enabled attach xqb tap0 and it worked great. Everybody was happy :-) BUT, now I ve upgraded to Ubuntu 12.04 (Ok, I m not an early adopter!) and, as you might guess, it doesn t work anymore. No errors and the tap0 device looks OK bob at falsetto:~/legato$ ifconfig tap0 tap0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr c6:36:37:eb:16:7a UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:500 RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B) but nothing ever happens. No data seems to pass between the bridge program and simh. Is anybody else using Ubuntu? Did you run into this problem? Thanks, Bob Try setting the interfaces promiscuous.

11 years, 8 months

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HECnet bridge and tun/tap problems on Ubuntu 12.04 ...

by bob＠jfcl.com

It s not exactly a DEC problem, but I know there are several people on HECnet running simh under Linux and I m hoping somebody has already figured this one out. I used to run simh (vax and pdp11 both) under Ubuntu 10.04 using Johnny s bridge program and a tap device to connect to HECnet. sudo tunctl -t tap0 sudo ifconfig tap0 up sudo -b /usr/local/bin/hecnet-bridge 4711 the bridge.conf file (I ll post it if anybody wants) bridges tap0 with Psilo.update.uu.se and in simh I would say set xqb enabled attach xqb tap0 and it worked great. Everybody was happy :-) BUT, now I ve upgraded to Ubuntu 12.04 (Ok, I m not an early adopter!) and, as you might guess, it doesn t work anymore. No errors and the tap0 device looks OK bob at falsetto:~/legato$ ifconfig tap0 tap0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr c6:36:37:eb:16:7a UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:500 RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B) but nothing ever happens. No data seems to pass between the bridge program and simh. Is anybody else using Ubuntu? Did you run into this problem? Thanks, Bob

11 years, 8 months

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Kuiper/Charon X3.1, Platform: Takara @ 500MHz, MOS Operator Control ???

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

So the latest Takara Alpha PICMG Industrial PC picked up from eBay last week has a different firmware image to the last one. Apparently it has something to do with VNswitches, but I'm not sure how it would have fitted in to a bigger picture. It looks like at one point it contained three network cards given the errors. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? It looks like I'm going to have to resort to the technique I performed on the last box when I flashed AlphaBIOS which would then not allow a reflash. I had to set a jumper on the CPU card and create a boot floppy with replacement firmware on. Looks like the 'MOS Operator Control' prompt is a dead sheriff rather than a dead sergeant! Regards, Mark. ------ %< ------ %<------ %< ------ %<------ %< ------ %<------ %< ------ %< Kuiper/Charon X3.1 Platform: Takara @ 500MHz Memory: 64MB PCI bus 0 slot 7 fn 0 irq=0000001D : Intel 82378 SIO DEC 10/100 Mb/s Ethernet start failed: device not found DEC 10/100 Mb/s Ethernet start failed: device not found DEC 10/100 Mb/s Ethernet start failed: device not found Copyright 1995-1996 Digital Equipment Corp. MOS Operator Control *? BREAKPOINT DIVERT output from process FLUSH output from process HALT output from process INTERCEPT character is LOGOUT MEMORY statistics RAMLOAD RESTART RELOAD STATUS of process(es) TALK to process TELNET to IP-Address <this terminal type> *memory Number of bytes: Busy = 51560, Idle = 2352, Free = 49553648 * -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

11 years, 8 months

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OT - minitrue.su

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 3 Nov 2013, at 18:20, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-11-03 16:23, Sampsa Laine wrote: Guys, I assume a large proportion of you have read Orwells "1984" and remember the protagonists workplace, the Ministry of Truth, i.e. Minitrue in Newspeak. Now I managed to purchase minitrue.su (yes, .su for Soviet Union never went away). Any ideas what to do with it? Obvious ones are put KREMVAX.MINITRUE.SU and KGBVAX.MINITRUE.SU underneath it. While funny, this is definitely a little too off topic for my taste... Johnny Can I just close the thread by saying that people should contact me offlist for registrations, KREMVAX, KGBVAX and PRAVDA are gone. Thanks for understanding BQT :)

11 years, 8 months

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Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator V7.0

by clemc＠ccc.com

On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:39 AM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote: However, wxWidgets works very well. It's very portable, produces native looking applications, and works on lots of operating systems. I've been using it for years. It also comes with a good Python library. I have only looked at it, but what I have seen it does look reasonable. I have no love or hate for QT. It works and gets the job done for what I have to do with it. wxWidgets also looks pretty useful also. Clem

11 years, 8 months

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Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator V7.0

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Nov 2, 2013, at 2:44 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: Yuk. I would think that a OS interface library might help here. Linux, Mac OS and *BSD are all pretty much the same for the basic I/O and all three support most of the basic low level OS stuff from open/close/read/write to mmap/semphores etc.. Where they differ is in UI and specifically GUI. I wonder if you considered something like QT for everything but DOS, I would like the amount of OS specific code you had to deal with I would hope would drop substantially. QT would look like ass, frankly, esp on OS X. I'd go for SDL and just make the UI a framebuffer thats a DOS screen with the same inputs as the DOS version. No need to write any manuals either :) Or SDL and a Star Trek interface or whatever, but all the cross-platform GUI stuff looks TERRIBLE on OS X. Maybe Qt does -- I only looked at it briefly and concluded I liked neither the API nor the license. However, wxWidgets works very well. It's very portable, produces native looking applications, and works on lots of operating systems. I've been using it for years. It also comes with a good Python library. paul

11 years, 8 months

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Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator V7.0

by jeep＠scshome.net

I vote for conditional code. -Steve ________________________________ From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of John Wilson Sent: Sat 11/2/2013 14:10 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator V7.0 From: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> Much as as I like *BSD, I'd rather see OSx ;-) Even if I weren't afraid of Apple because of their "app store" monopolistic grabbiness (they used to be so nice in the old days), I wasn't able to find a reasonable way to get Mach-O executables from OMF-386 .OBJ files. Writing a new linker seems like a great way not to have fun! On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Steve Davidson <jeep at scshome.net> wrote: Then how about NetBSD on x86??? I really would like to attack the *BSDs ... I investigate periodically but I just can't decide which I'd regret more: conditionalizing the hell out of 11K lines of Linux-specific support code, or editing a copy into ~11K lines of BSD-specific code that's easy reading but needs to be maintained in parallel. Um, or I could do both? Nah. It would be fun to get working though. John Wilson D Bit

11 years, 8 months

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OT - minitrue.su

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-11-03 16:23, Sampsa Laine wrote: Guys, I assume a large proportion of you have read Orwells "1984" and remember the protagonists workplace, the Ministry of Truth, i.e. Minitrue in Newspeak. Now I managed to purchase minitrue.su (yes, .su for Soviet Union never went away). Any ideas what to do with it? Obvious ones are put KREMVAX.MINITRUE.SU and KGBVAX.MINITRUE.SU underneath it. While funny, this is definitely a little too off topic for my taste... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 8 months

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OT - minitrue.su

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 3 Nov 2013, Sampsa Laine wrote: Guys, I assume a large proportion of you have read Orwells "1984" and remember the protagonists workplace, the Ministry of Truth, i.e. Minitrue in Newspeak. Now I managed to purchase minitrue.su (yes, .su for Soviet Union never went away). Praise be to Ford for this accomplishment! (I'm aware that's a different book. I prefer it to 1984) Any ideas what to do with it? Obvious ones are put KREMVAX.MINITRUE.SU and KGBVAX.MINITRUE.SU underneath it. A friend of mine own prismbackup.us...jokes for that are easy to come up with, but minitrue.su jokes are harder to come up with. sampsa -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 8 months

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Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator V7.0

by jibanes＠gmail.com

John, When would the demo (available via telnet) be accessible again? What are, besides the duration limit, the differences between the demo and the full version? Thank you, Jerome On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote: On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: As for Jobs, uhh, OS X is an extension of OpenStep which Apple they got the rights to when they acquired Next and they brought Jobs in. What are you talking about? The replacement for Mac OS work started long before Jobs returned. You are right, what they ended up with NextStep/OpenStep etc. But learning to join what we now call the FOSS community began before he returned. Talking to my friends that were there at the time, the tell me that culturally breaking out of the "closed" nature was not something Jobs liked. The engineers inside Apple at the time were what started it. Remember then they were still in the Avis "we try harder" mode to Microsoft and the PC and many of them felt the way to fight redmond was to be part of the unix community etc.. When Jobs returned, they were already participating in the FOSS community. There was a system called MachTen the pre-dated the Next machine ( IIRC that was being used inside of Apple before NextStep also). I ran it on a 68030 based color Mac-II (which I only go rid of about 2 years ago). It was CMU Mach/BSD under the covers and allowed traditional MacOS programs to run. A lot of folks thought it was cool - best of both worlds. Also your comment about App store -- I ask you to please differentiate between the iOS App store and Mac App store, Many Mac developers that I work with do not use the later and I know some are proud of it and display thing on their web sites saying so. If I look at the system in which I am typing this message, very few of the applications come from the Apple store. That said -- I agree with your comment for iOS however and nearly 100% of my iPhone apps come from the store. All do indirectly[the IT shop of my employer loads a program from the store called "apps at work" - and that program some how loads other applications from an Intel specific library]. IMO, with the success of iOS, Apple seems to have gone back to its closed ways and I do find that worrisome. Clem

11 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

OT - minitrue.su

by sampsa＠mac.com

Guys, I assume a large proportion of you have read Orwells "1984" and remember the protagonists workplace, the Ministry of Truth, i.e. Minitrue in Newspeak. Now I managed to purchase minitrue.su (yes, .su for Soviet Union never went away). Any ideas what to do with it? Obvious ones are put KREMVAX.MINITRUE.SU and KGBVAX.MINITRUE.SU underneath it. sampsa

11 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator V7.0

by clemc＠ccc.com

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: As for Jobs, uhh, OS X is an extension of OpenStep which Apple they got the rights to when they acquired Next and they brought Jobs in. What are you talking about? The replacement for Mac OS work started long before Jobs returned. You are right, what they ended up with NextStep/OpenStep etc. But learning to join what we now call the FOSS community began before he returned. Talking to my friends that were there at the time, the tell me that culturally breaking out of the "closed" nature was not something Jobs liked. The engineers inside Apple at the time were what started it. Remember then they were still in the Avis "we try harder" mode to Microsoft and the PC and many of them felt the way to fight redmond was to be part of the unix community etc.. When Jobs returned, they were already participating in the FOSS community. There was a system called MachTen the pre-dated the Next machine ( IIRC that was being used inside of Apple before NextStep also). I ran it on a 68030 based color Mac-II (which I only go rid of about 2 years ago). It was CMU Mach/BSD under the covers and allowed traditional MacOS programs to run. A lot of folks thought it was cool - best of both worlds. Also your comment about App store -- I ask you to please differentiate between the iOS App store and Mac App store, Many Mac developers that I work with do not use the later and I know some are proud of it and display thing on their web sites saying so. If I look at the system in which I am typing this message, very few of the applications come from the Apple store. That said -- I agree with your comment for iOS however and nearly 100% of my iPhone apps come from the store. All do indirectly[the IT shop of my employer loads a program from the store called "apps at work" - and that program some how loads other applications from an Intel specific library]. IMO, with the success of iOS, Apple seems to have gone back to its closed ways and I do find that worrisome. Clem

11 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

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