On 01/16/2014 10:01 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
It *almost* makes me want to get the missus to drape herself over an
Alphaserver, or such like... ;)
We may be skirting the edge here, but I've Done The Deed atop a VAX-8700.
It's now Sridhar's machine, but it was thoroughly cleaned. =)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Oh ok. I'm sorry, I misunderstood.
I can set up a temporary GRE tunnel with you this afternoon if you
like, until we can get you folded into Brian's tunnel configuration
management system. Let me know.
-Dave
On 01/16/2014 11:51 AM, Mark Abene wrote:
Sorry if it wasn't clear... Two different threads had a little
cross-posting I think. Here I'm just trying to establish a solid
HECnet peer. Johnny-bridge would have been preferable since I'm
running this on my NAS (and I know 'bridge' works), but if a GRE peer
is easier to find, by all means. While my QNAP NAS does have several
tunneling options in its stock config (it's linux arm), it appears
they did not include the ip_gre module, so I'll have to see about
hacking that in. Assuming that goes well, who's solidly offering the
GRE tunnel? We can exchange IP's and configs off-list.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:25 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
I thought you and I were only discussing some X.25 experimentation.
If you want a full-on HECnet connection via GRE, Brian Hechinger can
stick your info in his database, and tunnel configurations will be
automatically generated for all of us on his next run.
-Dave
On 01/16/2014 02:12 AM, Mark Abene wrote:
Seems rather counter to the idea of HECnet if it's this difficult to
join it.
On Jan 14, 2014 10:13 PM, "Johnny Billquist" <bqt at softjar.se
<mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote:
There are definitely people running the bridge in the US, but if
they want to peer is another story.
Johnny
On 2014-01-14 21:31, Mark Abene wrote:
I'm going to try getting a GRE tunnel going with Dave McGuire
soonish... In the meantime, if someone has a speedy connection
and is
already running 'bridge' (which would be simplest) let me know.
Thanks,
Mark
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com
<mailto:Paul_Koning at dell.com>> wrote:
On Jan 14, 2014, at 8:17 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com
<mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
I'm not using the virtual cisco for HECnet at all,
that's only for the
X.25 project (currently at sampsa.com
<http://sampsa.com>, though I may run a local node
additionally).
For HECnet I'm just running a plain old fashioned
Johnny-bridge. :)
I take it HECnet peers are lacking in the U.S.?
I guess I should put my Python router up permanently...
paul
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 01/16/2014 12:18 PM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Don't have a Cisco, so I can't comment on that.
They Just Work.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2014-01-16 09:18, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Multinet is horribly unreliable because it is based
on a fundamentally defective protocol design.
Really ? I've been using it for years and haven't noticed this.
Multinet tunnels work just fine most of the time, but Paul is right in that they do abuse things.
The HECnet bridge, OTOH, crashes regularly. It doesn't seem to recover
gracefully from network hiccups.
Huh? Since it's totally stateless that is weird. Let me know if you actually want me to look at it. Also, I've never had it crash, but the code is far from pretty, and depending on compiler and environment, I can believe that there are subtle bugs to be found.
Don't have a Cisco, so I can't comment on that.
:-)
Johnny
Hello!
Before we completely beat Multinet down with cudgels and assorted
sharp things, I have a question or two:
For one thing, Eisner is who? (What specialty does this machine do?)
And for another how did the machine in question get named?
I can cite complex examples behind why my machines get their names,
its almost a definite cause to change the subject.
Once those are answered we can go back to beating that protocol model
with those things.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
Then you're very lucky. I had nothing but trouble.
There are quite a few people on HECnet using Multinet - anybody else
besides Paul have problems?
Bob
Then you're very lucky. I had nothing but trouble.
There are quite a few people on HECnet using Multinet - anybody else
besides Paul have problems?
Bob
On Jan 16, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
Multinet is horribly unreliable because it is based
on a fundamentally defective protocol design.
Really ? I've been using it for years and haven't noticed this.
Then you re very lucky. I had nothing but trouble.
The reason is that Multinet uses the point to point mode of DECnet but over UDP. That clearly and explicitly violates several of the requirements of the DECnet routing architecture specification.
The two main trouble areas are (a) packet loss UDP has it, point to point DNA datalinks do not; (b) lack of restart notification so if one side times out or otherwise restarts for some reason, there is a lot of back and forth before things finally sort out.
GRE has none of this, because it uses the Ethernet datalink mode, which is the correct one to use for a datagram connection.
In other words, the people who designed GRE tunneling understood DECnet, while the ones who created Multinet tunneling were either clueless or just didn t care that they were doing it wrong.
paul
Multinet is horribly unreliable because it is based
on a fundamentally defective protocol design.
Really ? I've been using it for years and haven't noticed this.
The HECnet bridge, OTOH, crashes regularly. It doesn't seem to recover
gracefully from network hiccups.
Don't have a Cisco, so I can't comment on that.
Bob
Sorry if it wasn't clear... Two different threads had a little
cross-posting I think. Here I'm just trying to establish a solid
HECnet peer. Johnny-bridge would have been preferable since I'm
running this on my NAS (and I know 'bridge' works), but if a GRE peer
is easier to find, by all means. While my QNAP NAS does have several
tunneling options in its stock config (it's linux arm), it appears
they did not include the ip_gre module, so I'll have to see about
hacking that in. Assuming that goes well, who's solidly offering the
GRE tunnel? We can exchange IP's and configs off-list.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:25 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
I thought you and I were only discussing some X.25 experimentation.
If you want a full-on HECnet connection via GRE, Brian Hechinger can
stick your info in his database, and tunnel configurations will be
automatically generated for all of us on his next run.
-Dave
On 01/16/2014 02:12 AM, Mark Abene wrote:
Seems rather counter to the idea of HECnet if it's this difficult to
join it.
On Jan 14, 2014 10:13 PM, "Johnny Billquist" <bqt at softjar.se
<mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote:
There are definitely people running the bridge in the US, but if
they want to peer is another story.
Johnny
On 2014-01-14 21:31, Mark Abene wrote:
I'm going to try getting a GRE tunnel going with Dave McGuire
soonish... In the meantime, if someone has a speedy connection
and is
already running 'bridge' (which would be simplest) let me know.
Thanks,
Mark
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com
<mailto:Paul_Koning at dell.com>> wrote:
On Jan 14, 2014, at 8:17 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com
<mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
I'm not using the virtual cisco for HECnet at all,
that's only for the
X.25 project (currently at sampsa.com
<http://sampsa.com>, though I may run a local node
additionally).
For HECnet I'm just running a plain old fashioned
Johnny-bridge. :)
I take it HECnet peers are lacking in the U.S.?
I guess I should put my Python router up permanently...
paul
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
<Paul_Koning at Dell.com> writes:
On Jan 16, 2014, at 8:22 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system at TMESIS.C=
OM> wrote:
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
=20
...
If they are running Multinet, you could also setup a link using that.
=20
Oh yes! Eisner is or was running Multinet.=20
If you have a choice between Multinet and GRE, use GRE. Multinet is horrib=
ly unreliable because it is based on a fundamentally defective protocol des=
ign.
Absolutely.
I'll know more once the eagle has landed. ;)
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On Jan 16, 2014, at 8:22 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
...
If they are running Multinet, you could also setup a link using that.
Oh yes! Eisner is or was running Multinet.
If you have a choice between Multinet and GRE, use GRE. Multinet is horribly unreliable because it is based on a fundamentally defective protocol design.
paul
Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> writes:
It *almost* makes me want to get the missus to drape herself over an=20
Alphaserver, or such like... ;)
Maybe all this talk of line printers should spur someone to make the DEC=20
equivalent of Benny Benassi's 'Satisfaction' video:=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DV5bYDhZBFLA
Mark
Well, I already have a soundtrack. It just needs the hot female visuals:
http://tmesis.com/soundz/IWantYourVAX.wavhttp://tmesis.com/soundz/IWantYourVAX-Lyrics.txt
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
How about photos which include DEC and cute operators ;)
https://www.its.uq.edu.au/filething/get/4210/1981%20Maralyn%20Kenley.jpg
Kindly,
Daniel S derstr m
Sent from my iPad
On 16 Jan 2014, at 9:46 pm, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at Update.UU.SE> writes:
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 06:25:12PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/15/2014 06:00 PM, Mark Wickens wrote:
I searched for DEC LP27 printer and came across this treasure chest:
http://www1.appstate.edu/~jmm/operations.tour.html
Not sure it'll be the same since the last update in 1994!
Oh, the PORN!!
You might like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfBMyvIBYAw
(i almost thought it was the same place)
I love the porn soundtrack! :)
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at Update.UU.SE> writes:
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 06:25:12PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/15/2014 06:00 PM, Mark Wickens wrote:
I searched for DEC LP27 printer and came across this treasure chest:
http://www1.appstate.edu/~jmm/operations.tour.html
Not sure it'll be the same since the last update in 1994!
Oh, the PORN!!
You might like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfBMyvIBYAw
(i almost thought it was the same place)
I love the porn soundtrack! :)
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/15/2014 07:20 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Heh! The DZ-11 is a hog. We all know that.
But the LP11 is not really much better. It's also interrupt per
character unless I remember wrong. But it's only one printer per card,
and no input. And of course, much faster, since it's parallel with
handshaking.
The Unibus controller I used at work, and later at home, with an LA180
was an LS11. I don't remember if it was interrupt-per-character as
well, but since it was fairly non-dense TTL logic, I'd assume it was.
It fared very well on my 11/34 running (at the time) RSX. In the
mid-1980s, I was the first person to turn in high-school homework on
printer paper. Even some of the teachers were asking what kind of
"typewriter" made such "strange-looking print". ;)
You've reminded me of how I was the only person a teacher knew
who did a science project narrated by Microsoft Sam.
DECtalk, Stephen Hawkings' voice, would have been much cooler!
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
On 2014-01-15 14:18, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
On 2014-01-14 03:44, Sampsa Laine wrote:
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 14 Jan 2014, at 13:42, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> writes:
Anybody know what happened with that discussion re: EISNER and HECnet?
Also, is EISNER even up any more? I can't seem to connect to it.
EISNER is being or has been physically relocated. Once it is back up, I'll
see what can be done about getting it connected to HECnet. I have no idea
what'll be available network-wise/router-wise until EISNER is back on-line.
Mind you with such a large change anyway, it might be a good time to "sneak in" the connection to HECnet :)
I totally dislike the "sneak in" comment. If it is going to happen, it
must be done very openly and consciously. Noone will benefit from trying
to sneak something in.
Once Eisner has been reconnected and revived -- seriously, I do not know
why this relocation effort is taking so long -- I will communicate with
the new caretakes about their router config; hopefully, it's a Cisco box
that can support the DECnet tunnel. I doubt that there would be a Linux
box there that would serve as a gateway.
If they are running Multinet, you could also setup a link using that.
Oh yes! Eisner is or was running Multinet. Now all that's needed is for
Eisner to finally be reconnected/restarted in its new home. I volunteered
to host Eisner but the plan to move it to Nemonix was already pretty much
a done deal.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 04:18:51PM -0800, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2014-01-15 15:28, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
The LA120 was the de facto console terminal for the VAX-11/78*s. One reason
why I have three; albeit, one has been cannibalized for parts.
Also standard on PDP-11s as well as DECsystem-10 and DECsystem-20
machines...
Update have at least three... (Or had, last I looked. Two with 20mA
and one with RS-232.)
We have at least two now, perhaps three.
I'd like a LA36, mostly for the looks.
/P
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 06:25:12PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/15/2014 06:00 PM, Mark Wickens wrote:
I searched for DEC LP27 printer and came across this treasure chest:
http://www1.appstate.edu/~jmm/operations.tour.html
Not sure it'll be the same since the last update in 1994!
Oh, the PORN!!
You might like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfBMyvIBYAw
(i almost thought it was the same place)
/P
I'd love a daisy wheel! Are there any which will hook up to a vax 4000? Though I remember collecting my printouts from the sysop in 1st year 1991 and you could hear the line printers grinding away. Need 230 (ish) volts too.
Basically size doesnt matter, as I will have to pay for a pallet, regardless of whats on it.
Kindly,
Daniel S derstr m
Sent from my iPad
On 16 Jan 2014, at 5:18 pm, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
On 16/01/2014 08:13, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
My requirements is that it be noisy and go clack clack clack clack.
I want to print out CIA reports like in Falcon and the Snow man :)
Kindly,
Daniel S derstr m
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Jan 2014, at 11:40 pm, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-15 06:58, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
The chances of a printer turning up in Perth, WA are zip. If I had to pay money for one "desert island" DEC printer. What would it be?
What are your requirements? What do you want to use it for? Connected to what?
Johnny
The sound is not to be underestimated. Personally I like fast daisywheels for that railgun effect...
Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/urbancamo
On 16/01/2014 08:13, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
My requirements is that it be noisy and go clack clack clack clack.
I want to print out CIA reports like in Falcon and the Snow man :)
Kindly,
Daniel S derstr m
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Jan 2014, at 11:40 pm, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-15 06:58, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
The chances of a printer turning up in Perth, WA are zip. If I had to pay money for one "desert island" DEC printer. What would it be?
What are your requirements? What do you want to use it for? Connected to what?
Johnny
The sound is not to be underestimated. Personally I like fast daisywheels for that railgun effect...
Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/urbancamo
My requirements is that it be noisy and go clack clack clack clack.
I want to print out CIA reports like in Falcon and the Snow man :)
Kindly,
Daniel S derstr m
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Jan 2014, at 11:40 pm, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-15 06:58, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
The chances of a printer turning up in Perth, WA are zip. If I had to pay money for one "desert island" DEC printer. What would it be?
What are your requirements? What do you want to use it for? Connected to what?
Johnny
I thought you and I were only discussing some X.25 experimentation.
If you want a full-on HECnet connection via GRE, Brian Hechinger can
stick your info in his database, and tunnel configurations will be
automatically generated for all of us on his next run.
-Dave
On 01/16/2014 02:12 AM, Mark Abene wrote:
Seems rather counter to the idea of HECnet if it's this difficult to
join it.
On Jan 14, 2014 10:13 PM, "Johnny Billquist" <bqt at softjar.se
<mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote:
There are definitely people running the bridge in the US, but if
they want to peer is another story.
Johnny
On 2014-01-14 21:31, Mark Abene wrote:
I'm going to try getting a GRE tunnel going with Dave McGuire
soonish... In the meantime, if someone has a speedy connection
and is
already running 'bridge' (which would be simplest) let me know.
Thanks,
Mark
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com
<mailto:Paul_Koning at dell.com>> wrote:
On Jan 14, 2014, at 8:17 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com
<mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
I'm not using the virtual cisco for HECnet at all,
that's only for the
X.25 project (currently at sampsa.com
<http://sampsa.com>, though I may run a local node
additionally).
For HECnet I'm just running a plain old fashioned
Johnny-bridge. :)
I take it HECnet peers are lacking in the U.S.?
I guess I should put my Python router up permanently...
paul
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Seems rather counter to the idea of HECnet if it's this difficult to join it.
On Jan 14, 2014 10:13 PM, "Johnny Billquist" <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
There are definitely people running the bridge in the US, but if they want to peer is another story.
Johnny
On 2014-01-14 21:31, Mark Abene wrote:
I'm going to try getting a GRE tunnel going with Dave McGuire
soonish... In the meantime, if someone has a speedy connection and is
already running 'bridge' (which would be simplest) let me know.
Thanks,
Mark
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
On Jan 14, 2014, at 8:17 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> wrote:
I'm not using the virtual cisco for HECnet at all, that's only for the
X.25 project (currently at sampsa.com, though I may run a local node
additionally).
For HECnet I'm just running a plain old fashioned Johnny-bridge. :)
I take it HECnet peers are lacking in the U.S.?
I guess I should put my Python router up permanently...
paul
