Once upon a time, Dave McGuire allegedly said
On 12/17/2012 11:41 AM, Phil Mendelsohn wrote:
(filtering was sufficient until mobile devices entered the fray.)
Filtering will again be sufficient if you do it on the server
True but not always possible.
Phil
--
"There is some truth in your fiction,
and some fiction in your truth." -- Animatrix
On 12/17/2012 12:53 PM, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that, but just run NoScript when accessing RHESUS then :)
It won't break anything, it's a tiny hobby site and I am not a professional sysadmin so Google Analytics is an easy choice for me.
I'm not trashing you at all, and I'm sorry if I came across that way.
I do a lot of data security work these days, and some of the stuff I
see in the field just horrifies me. Google is the data version of The
Borg, and all it takes is one corporate paradigm shift..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 17 Dec 2012, at 12:49, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 12/17/2012 12:39 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Automagically generated charts.
Analog, Webalizer...lots of others. All of them have been doing
this for more than fifteen years.
I know, but they need to be set up, which is slightly less automagic
for a lazy sysadmin. ;)
Setup is like five minutes. A sysadmin THAT lazy should not be
trusted with root.
I agree with that. I'm coming up with some ideas for helping someone migrate away from google analytics now.
Seriously man.
Also, some people prefer out-of-band analytics. I'd be fine with
webaizer or analog personally, I have google analytics set up but i
never use it. Mind I get about 1 hit/year...
I'd like to see a convincing argument for running the analytics
out-of-band.
I can come up with some reasons, but they're not exactly /convincing/.
Analytics data would be less susceptible to failure of personal infrastructure. (I've seen logging break firsthand before I don't get how I can manage to break logging).
Some people just like to slow down page load time by requiring data be sent somewhere else. ;)
Not trying to be argumentative...but too many people these days in
this business insist on things for the sake of insisting on something,
without anything to back them up. I am not accusing YOU of this of
course, as you've mentioned that you don't use it.
The only time I enjoy this is when I paid to clean up the resultant
mess. ;)
Google offers these services because they want any and all data that
they can get their paws on. It is far from high-minded community
service thinking. First they offer free email, now they've got your
email. Next they offer free office "web apps", now they have your
business documents. Now your web traffic stats.
Which is why I want to migrate away from gmail. ;)
Mind you, I don't think Google as a company is evil, but they employ a
LOT of people, and a LOT of people have access to those databases.
Further, Google has a history of just rolling over when the federal
government demands information.
Oh noes! The government knows that I sometimes visit my website with IE 3. ;)
(I see the problem here, just needed to make a joke)
I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind being comfortable with
this, especially when respectable, self-contained, state-of-the-art
network services can be set up with 100% free software on hardware that
can be picked up on the curb on trash day.
I'm definitely losing the appeal of the google kook-aid, ;)
</soapbox>
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Dave,
I don't disagree with any of that, but just run NoScript when accessing RHESUS then :)
It won't break anything, it's a tiny hobby site and I am not a professional sysadmin so Google Analytics is an easy choice for me.
Sampsa
On 12/17/2012 12:39 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Automagically generated charts.
Analog, Webalizer...lots of others. All of them have been doing
this for more than fifteen years.
I know, but they need to be set up, which is slightly less automagic
for a lazy sysadmin. ;)
Setup is like five minutes. A sysadmin THAT lazy should not be
trusted with root.
Seriously man.
Also, some people prefer out-of-band analytics. I'd be fine with
webaizer or analog personally, I have google analytics set up but i
never use it. Mind I get about 1 hit/year...
I'd like to see a convincing argument for running the analytics
out-of-band.
Not trying to be argumentative...but too many people these days in
this business insist on things for the sake of insisting on something,
without anything to back them up. I am not accusing YOU of this of
course, as you've mentioned that you don't use it.
The only time I enjoy this is when I paid to clean up the resultant
mess. ;)
Google offers these services because they want any and all data that
they can get their paws on. It is far from high-minded community
service thinking. First they offer free email, now they've got your
email. Next they offer free office "web apps", now they have your
business documents. Now your web traffic stats.
Mind you, I don't think Google as a company is evil, but they employ a
LOT of people, and a LOT of people have access to those databases.
Further, Google has a history of just rolling over when the federal
government demands information.
I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind being comfortable with
this, especially when respectable, self-contained, state-of-the-art
network services can be set up with 100% free software on hardware that
can be picked up on the curb on trash day.
</soapbox>
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 17 Dec 2012, at 12:36, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 12/17/2012 12:32 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Yes, if you do a view source you'll see the Javascript that sends info to my analytics account.
Ugh! Why do something over the net, when you have the same information accessible in your logs already?
Automagically generated charts.
Analog, Webalizer...lots of others. All of them have been doing this
for more than fifteen years.
I know, but they need to be set up, which is slightly less automagic for a lazy sysadmin. ;)
Also, some people prefer out-of-band analytics. I'd be fine with webaizer or analog personally, I have google analytics set up but i never use it. Mind I get about 1 hit/year...
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 12/17/2012 12:32 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Yes, if you do a view source you'll see the Javascript that sends info to my analytics account.
Ugh! Why do something over the net, when you have the same information accessible in your logs already?
Automagically generated charts.
Analog, Webalizer...lots of others. All of them have been doing this
for more than fifteen years.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
I like the interface, and it's easy :)
Sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:31, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:29, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Yes, if you do a view source you'll see the Javascript that sends info to my analytics account.
Ugh! Why do something over the net, when you have the same information accessible in your logs already?
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:29, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:27, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
10 unique visits in the last month :)
But that is just what they know, and they hardly knows of my visits just now...
Or do you have some widget on that place that sends information on to Google?
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:26, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:21, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
RHESUS isn't exactly a high-visibility web site - I can post the Google Analytics data here every month if you guys want it :)
What does the Google Analytics say?
Johnny
Sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:20, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:17, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Johnny,
How about this - http://rhesus.sampsa.com/cgi-bin/hecnetinfo/hecnetinfo.com?q=labvax
It's a tad slower now due to the extra NCPs, but works?
Yes. That is some useful information, or atleast I think so. But I don't know if others might disagree, or if they might thing it is giving out too much information?
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:09, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Sure - I just need to work out the UI, the actual execution of this is trivial :)
Sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:03, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 17:58, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
I try to do it weekly - I _THINK_ Steve Davidson set up a script to do it automatically once a week, but I suppose I could add a batch job to do it daily automatically too.
Ah, yes. It was Steve who have something automated. He polls a file on MIM to get a node list, checking when that file was last modified.
Maybe Steve can share that, if he hasn't already...
What more NCP info would you like to see?
NCP SHO NOD <foobar> STATUS could be useful perhaps? However, it is less so when the node is several hops away. You could be clever and traverse until you get next to it...
Or something like NCP TELL <foobar> SHO EXEC could be something. Both CHARACTERISTICS and COUNTERS?
There are many things that can be done. :-)
Johnny
Sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 18:56, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 17:42, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
RHESUS serves node info on these by the way, the URL is:
http://rhesus.sampsa.com/cgi-bin/hecnetinfo/hecnetinfo.com
Rather cute. I could do that on MIM nowadays...
Maybe some more information from NCP on what it knows could be cool?
How often to you update your node database?
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 18:40, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Well, I figured it might be fun for people to know that there are, as of this moment, 405 known node names at MIM.
Not bad...
I know there are some more coming in, and in general, there is a steady stream of new registrations.
Speaking of which, is noone running a phase V area router? (Or could phase V not even be an area router?)
Johnny
On 12/17/2012 12:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:29, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Yes, if you do a view source you'll see the Javascript that sends info
to my analytics account.
Ugh! Why do something over the net, when you have the same information
accessible in your logs already?
Because Google really, really, REALLY wants any and all data that it
can get its hands on!
Seriously guys. Analog or Webalizer takes like five minutes to set
up, and doesn't give all of your hit data to the world's largest data
mining operation. (along with all of your search histories, business
documents, usenet traffic, email..)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 17 Dec 2012, at 12:31, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:29, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Yes, if you do a view source you'll see the Javascript that sends info to my analytics account.
Ugh! Why do something over the net, when you have the same information accessible in your logs already?
Automagically generated charts.
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:29, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:27, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
10 unique visits in the last month :)
But that is just what they know, and they hardly knows of my visits just now...
Or do you have some widget on that place that sends information on to Google?
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:26, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:21, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
RHESUS isn't exactly a high-visibility web site - I can post the Google Analytics data here every month if you guys want it :)
What does the Google Analytics say?
Johnny
Sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:20, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 18:17, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Johnny,
How about this - http://rhesus.sampsa.com/cgi-bin/hecnetinfo/hecnetinfo.com?q=labvax
It's a tad slower now due to the extra NCPs, but works?
Yes. That is some useful information, or atleast I think so. But I don't know if others might disagree, or if they might thing it is giving out too much information?
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:09, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Sure - I just need to work out the UI, the actual execution of this is trivial :)
Sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 19:03, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 17:58, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
I try to do it weekly - I _THINK_ Steve Davidson set up a script to do it automatically once a week, but I suppose I could add a batch job to do it daily automatically too.
Ah, yes. It was Steve who have something automated. He polls a file on MIM to get a node list, checking when that file was last modified.
Maybe Steve can share that, if he hasn't already...
What more NCP info would you like to see?
NCP SHO NOD <foobar> STATUS could be useful perhaps? However, it is less so when the node is several hops away. You could be clever and traverse until you get next to it...
Or something like NCP TELL <foobar> SHO EXEC could be something. Both CHARACTERISTICS and COUNTERS?
There are many things that can be done. :-)
Johnny
Sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 18:56, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-12-17 17:42, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
RHESUS serves node info on these by the way, the URL is:
http://rhesus.sampsa.com/cgi-bin/hecnetinfo/hecnetinfo.com
Rather cute. I could do that on MIM nowadays...
Maybe some more information from NCP on what it knows could be cool?
How often to you update your node database?
Johnny
sampsa
On 17 Dec 2012, at 18:40, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Well, I figured it might be fun for people to know that there are, as of this moment, 405 known node names at MIM.
Not bad...
I know there are some more coming in, and in general, there is a steady stream of new registrations.
Speaking of which, is noone running a phase V area router? (Or could phase V not even be an area router?)
Johnny
