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Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Dec 21, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-12-21 21:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Dec 21, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Clem Cole wrote: ... The whole thing is sad/silly for both Lego and DEC - RJxx was/is a fine standard. Why did they have to mess with it? (Don't answer that I know - why but it was things like that that contributed to DEC's undoing IMHO). My former boss liked to refer to Ken Olsen as the "chief connector architect". KO was really good at interfering at the wrong time for the wrong reason. The first DECserver-100 was a fairly small box (about the size of two laptops sitting on top of each other), with some sort of connector I don't remember for the terminal ports. Not a typical one -- I think it was some sort of 8-pin connector. When the product was ready to ship, Ken looked at it and decided it needed to be redesigned. It needed to go into a larger box, and it had to use connectors that look like phone connectors but were modified to be incompatible with anything ever seen before. And so it was done. I have seen a prototype of the result: the earlier box minus the top cover, sitting inside of the final DECserver-100 box, with jumper cables going between the original connectors and the MMJ connectors. Sigh. Among the gross management blunders of KO, this is undoubtedly a fairly small one, but it's illustrative. Yeah. The DECserver 100/200/300 are truly things of air. There is a single board in them, and so much space it's ridiculous. However, the DS100 have DB25 connectors. The DS200 came in two variants. Either DB25 or MMJ, while the DS300 is MMJ only. But they are a bit larger that two laptops, I'd say (looking at my DS300 right next to me right now). Might you be thinking of something else? Maybe I have the model numbers wrong. I was talking about the first DECserver. Yes, the ones customers saw are bigger than a laptop -- they are rack-mount boxes, 2U or so. The laptop-sized device I mentioned is one that didn't ship because KO insisted on having its box size and connector type redesigned. So you never saw that one outside of DEC. paul

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> writes: Sorry to spam everyone, I tried to take this off line but Brian a message to <system at tmesis.com> bounced... No idea, probably because mine is el cheapo. I also have a really good Ideal RJ45/RJ11 based crimper which is what I used for CAT6 cables. But for this, it's not Paladin -- its off brand/non-name I probably got from China -> but I might have found it some place here in the Boston area like Eli's (a true geek holy place for non-Bostonians) or maybe Frys on a trip to left coat.. At some point I wanted/needed a MMJ and I found this one with a bunch of connectors cheap (my memory was it was $10-15 for crimper and some ends and they were trying to get rid of it). Since, I had 6 conductor "silver statin" on spools at home - figured it was worth the a few bucks to try it. It ended up being good enough for what I wanted. A couple of year later, I had to start hacking on Lego I dug it up, I bought the Lrgo male plugs from somebody I found via google (maybe 3-4 years ago). So, I took the MMJ tool apart and hacked it. I do not remember it being very hard. The whole thing is sad/silly for both Lego and DEC - RJxx was/is a fine standard. Why did they have to mess with it? (Don't answer that I know - why but it was things like that that contributed to DEC's undoing IMHO). Anyway, my point was and still is that "google in your friend" and much of this is very findable. About 15+ years ago, I had one customer who decided that MMJ connectors and cables were too expensive. So, they opted for a similar system devised by a company called Mod-Tap. At least, that's the logo that was on all of the connectors and cables. This comany also had a telephone system that used RJ12 connectors. Would you like to know how many terminals and DECservers I replaced at this company when their employees plugged in the wrong RJ12 terminated cables into their phone system??? I'd happily keep all the MMJ connector in a scenario such as that. They were far far cheaper than the replacement terminals and DECservers. DEC, of course, didn't mind it one bit. ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-12-21 21:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Dec 21, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Clem Cole wrote: ... The whole thing is sad/silly for both Lego and DEC - RJxx was/is a fine standard. Why did they have to mess with it? (Don't answer that I know - why but it was things like that that contributed to DEC's undoing IMHO). My former boss liked to refer to Ken Olsen as the "chief connector architect". KO was really good at interfering at the wrong time for the wrong reason. The first DECserver-100 was a fairly small box (about the size of two laptops sitting on top of each other), with some sort of connector I don't remember for the terminal ports. Not a typical one -- I think it was some sort of 8-pin connector. When the product was ready to ship, Ken looked at it and decided it needed to be redesigned. It needed to go into a larger box, and it had to use connectors that look like phone connectors but were modified to be incompatible with anything ever seen before. And so it was done. I have seen a prototype of the result: the earlier box minus the top cover, sitting inside of the final DECserver-100 box, with jumper cables going between the original connectors and the MMJ connectors. Sigh. Among the gross management blunders of KO, this is undoubtedly a fairly small one, but it's illustrative. Yeah. The DECserver 100/200/300 are truly things of air. There is a single board in them, and so much space it's ridiculous. However, the DS100 have DB25 connectors. The DS200 came in two variants. Either DB25 or MMJ, while the DS300 is MMJ only. But they are a bit larger that two laptops, I'd say (looking at my DS300 right next to me right now). Might you be thinking of something else? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-12-21 19:38, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Dec 21, 2012, at 1:33 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: sampsa at mac.com writes: Clem, Mark Benson has already volunteered to make the cables at cost - I just need to know if the console cables are wired straight across or crossover? DECconnects are a flat 6-conductor cable. The MMJ plugs are attached such that the same side of the flat cable is inserted into each MMJ plug. This provides an implicit signal crossover. So, if your 6 conductor cable had White, Black, Red, Green, Yellow, Gray conductors, one side would show the colors as I've listed them and the other side would be Gray, Yellow, Green, Red, Black and White. I thought I've seen straight-through version also, which you can make by having one of the two connectors "upside down". Yes, I have a couple of cables crimped like that. I suspect the reason is that people installed fixed jacks in some places and wired them wrong. :-( Annoying, but there it is. (And yes, I also have a tool, and connectors, but no cable right now, as well as having all that stuff in Sweden, while I'm in Switzerland.) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by bqt＠softjar.se

Except the obvious problem that they won't work in DEC equipment... Johnny On 2012-12-21 15:55, Clem Cole wrote: Good point, I took a DEC tool and turned the plate around for Mind Storms hacking. But my point is that the tools and plugs are findable - as they are even on amazon. On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system at tmesis.com <mailto:system at tmesis.com>> wrote: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com <mailto:clemc at ccc.com>> writes: >--e89a8f8396e3415d4a04d15d84f3 Content-Type: text/plain; >charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I would suspect you should be able to find them in Europe as LEGO uses >the MMJ connector for Mindstorms (which is a pain in the neck). Amazon >carries the tool and plugs, so it's easy to make them. The tool is >$40-60 US and the plugs cost under a dollar (and I have seen them as low >as 4 for a dollar). What is hard to find is the female connector, I >have not find a reliable source, so I find myself making custom MMJ to >RJ11 cables for the kids when they want to make a custom interface to >connect to their robots. Doesn't the LEGO's version of the MMJ have the tab on the right? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity. -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Dec 21, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Clem Cole wrote: ... The whole thing is sad/silly for both Lego and DEC - RJxx was/is a fine standard. Why did they have to mess with it? (Don't answer that I know - why but it was things like that that contributed to DEC's undoing IMHO). My former boss liked to refer to Ken Olsen as the "chief connector architect". KO was really good at interfering at the wrong time for the wrong reason. The first DECserver-100 was a fairly small box (about the size of two laptops sitting on top of each other), with some sort of connector I don't remember for the terminal ports. Not a typical one -- I think it was some sort of 8-pin connector. When the product was ready to ship, Ken looked at it and decided it needed to be redesigned. It needed to go into a larger box, and it had to use connectors that look like phone connectors but were modified to be incompatible with anything ever seen before. And so it was done. I have seen a prototype of the result: the earlier box minus the top cover, sitting inside of the final DECserver-100 box, with jumper cables going between the original connectors and the MMJ connectors. Sigh. Among the gross management blunders of KO, this is undoubtedly a fairly small one, but it's illustrative. paul

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by clemc＠ccc.com

Sorry to spam everyone, I tried to take this off line but Brian a message to <system at tmesis.com> bounced... No idea, probably because mine is el cheapo. I also have a really good Ideal RJ45/RJ11 based crimper which is what I used for CAT6 cables. But for this, it's not Paladin -- its off brand/non-name I probably got from China -> but I might have found it some place here in the Boston area like Eli's (a true geek holy place for non-Bostonians) or maybe Frys on a trip to left coat.. At some point I wanted/needed a MMJ and I found this one with a bunch of connectors cheap (my memory was it was $10-15 for crimper and some ends and they were trying to get rid of it). Since, I had 6 conductor "silver statin" on spools at home - figured it was worth the a few bucks to try it. It ended up being good enough for what I wanted. A couple of year later, I had to start hacking on Lego I dug it up, I bought the Lrgo male plugs from somebody I found via google (maybe 3-4 years ago). So, I took the MMJ tool apart and hacked it. I do not remember it being very hard. The whole thing is sad/silly for both Lego and DEC - RJxx was/is a fine standard. Why did they have to mess with it? (Don't answer that I know - why but it was things like that that contributed to DEC's undoing IMHO). Anyway, my point was and still is that "google in your friend" and much of this is very findable. Clem On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system at tmesis.com> wrote: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> writes: >Good point, I took a DEC tool and turned the plate around for Mind >Storms hacking. But my point is that the tools and plugs are findable I have a Paladin crimper with interchangeable dies for many different types of connectors and I cannot see how you "turn around" the MMJ die. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 12/21/2012 01:34 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Good point, I took a DEC tool and turned the plate around for Mind Storms hacking. But my point is that the tools and plugs are findable I have a Paladin crimper with interchangeable dies for many different types of connectors and I cannot see how you "turn around" the MMJ die. Same goes for my Tyco/AMP crimper...ain't no turnin' those dies around. BTW this place has MMJ connectors in stock, at $14 per box of 100: http://www.computercablestore.com//Modular_Connectors_RJ1112_PID2061.aspx I just got some from them about a week ago; haven't used any of them yet but they look ok at first glance. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 11 months

DECnet/DOS, was Re: [HECnet] DECnet and Windows NT?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 12/21/2012 03:59 AM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: While you're at it, DECnet/DOS was really nice for the time. I believe (but am not certain, can anyone clarify?) that it is what grew into Pathworks. We used it extensively in our network back at the early 90's. IIRC the name evolution was DECnet/DOS => PCSA => PATHWORKS. The main problem with the DOS version was it ate a lot of "real" memory (about 300KB if my memory does not betray me). That left a very small space for applications... On the nice side, it came with an EDT compatible editor (SEDT... I miss it :)) and a XServer for DOS which worked nicely with DECWindows. That was the reason the puck mouse interface was in the LAN card. We had a DEC-centric office system back in those days. ALL-IN-1 running in the VAXen and WPS-DOS running in the peecees for word processing (BTW, does anyone have a WPS-DOS disk set arount? ;)). 20/20 for spreadsheet at both sides. And TEAMDATA to allow the end users to browse the databases. We bought 3300s for the remote offices. 3 of them I think. We linked those to our main site using 1200bps point-to-point lines with DECRouters at each side (1 port models at the remote end, a 4 port one at our central office). One of those 3300s ended at my home, and is now called BITXO2 :). Nice! The DECnet/DOS I ran didn't have an editor or an X server; the one you're talking about must've been a bit later than mine. Neat stuff. If I can find my DEPCA board, and the software, I will bring it up in an AT-style box of some sort, just for the heck of it. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 11 months

Anyone got spare MMJ-MMJ console cables?

by system＠TMESIS.COM

<Paul_Koning at Dell.com> writes: On Dec 21, 2012, at 1:33 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: sampsa at mac.com writes:=20 >=20 >> Clem,=20 >>=20 >> Mark Benson has already volunteered to make the cables at cost - I just >> need to know if the console cables are wired straight across or >> crossover?=20 >=20 DECconnects are a flat 6-conductor cable. The MMJ plugs are attached suc= h > that the same side of the flat cable is inserted into each MMJ plug. Thi= s > provides an implicit signal crossover. So, if your 6 conductor cable had > White, Black, Red, Green, Yellow, Gray conductors, one side would show th= e > colors as I've listed them and the other side would be Gray, Yellow, Gree= n, > Red, Black and White. I thought I've seen straight-through version also, which you can make by ha= ving one of the two connectors "upside down". You might have seen that but it wouldn't work with the myriad MMJ to 25pin and 9pin connectors that DEC had floating about. I believe, if you took a look, that this is all detailed in the OpenVMS FAQ. Stephen Hoffman keeps one of the most up-to-date OpenVMS FAQs (probably because he compiled most of it while he was still in OpenVMS Eng.) on his web site. http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/vmsfaq.html MMJ specifics: http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_025.html#index_x_1818 -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 11 months

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