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INFO.TXT, was Re: [HECnet] UPDATE: HECNET.HLP file for VMS systems

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-12-31 15:14, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-12-31 14:59, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes: On 2012-12-31 08:08, sampsa at mac.com wrote: Directory LEGATO::SYS$SPECIFIC:[FAL$SERVER] 31-DEC-12 13:59:07 INFO.TXT;1 Size: 8./35. Created: 08-JUL-10 10:54:52 Owner: [000376,000373] Revised: 27-DEC-12 19:24:34(6.) Expires: <none_specified> File protection: System:RE, Owner:RE, Group:RE, World:RE File organization: Sequential File attributes: Allocation=0 Record format: Stream-CR, no maximum defined Record attributes: Carriage return What does it mean if you have stream-CR and attribute Carriage Return? I mean, yes, each record is separated by a CR, and then what? Add an additional CR at the end of each line? "Record format" refers to the data in the file. Stream_CR means that the records are delineated with a <carriage-return> character. RMS will then populate its internal buffers and the user's buffer upon a $GET with the current record data up to the <carriage-return> character. RMS internal handlers discard this <carriage-return> and update the NRP (Next Record Pointer) leaving it pointing after the <carriage-return> to a subsequent (assuming there is one) record. "Record attributes" refer to how to present the record to the application that performed the $GET to read the record. With "Record attributes" set to "Carriage return", RMS will synthesize a record with <carriage-return> and <line-feed>. If the "Record format" is VFC (Variable Format Control), this synthesis is over-ruled by the format in the VFC header of each and every record. Ah. This do make sense, actually, and matches RSX. (Except there is no Stream_CR, there is only a Stream format.) I obviously did not think enough here. However, the actual contents of the file, as seen if I copy it to RSX, totally belies this, as there aren't a single CR in that whole file. But it might be that things are mangled in the process of the transfer. Looking more at this, I'm curious what Bob did. It might be that the file were created on Windows. However, transferred to VMS, the file do not have a a single CR, but do have plenty of LF. That smells very much like Unix. But the record format is broken. It should be Stream_LF. Funnily enough, VMS seems to think that the LF still a delimiter for the record, but it is not stripped out. Reading the file from RSX, this means I get an additional LF for each record read. I wonder why that don't happen in VMS... (This is obvious if you look at the web service on MIM compared to RHESUS.) So, end result in RSX: I read each record. Each record ends with an LF. And then the record format implies a CR+LF as well. I think I've ruled out and transfer mangling by now. The file really only have LFs in there, apart from the text. I would have expected VMS to perhaps not consider the file to be more than one record, since there is no CR, but it then appears that Stream, Stream_CR and Stream_LF only differs on what they strip out, not in what they consider to be record separators. I learned something new today. Stream in RSX is more than enough for me, so I won't ever worry about the special variants of stream that VMS have anymore. :-) I think fugly is an appropriate word, Brian. :-) Johnny

12 years, 5 months

INFO.TXT, was Re: [HECnet] UPDATE: HECNET.HLP file for VMS systems

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-12-31 14:59, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes: On 2012-12-31 08:08, sampsa at mac.com wrote: Funny thing about LEGATO's INFO.TXT - my parser looks for the .BEGIN-HECNET-INFO tag and deletes all text after that. I should probably make a manual HLP file for LEGATO, Bob you OK with that? LEGATO's INFO.TXT have real yucky file attributes and a real yucky file format. :-) (What on earth was used to produce it???) Stream_CR typically surfaces with files coming from WEENDOZE. Ah. Yes, that would be a possible, source, I guess. But I find Stream_CR a but surprising. Maybe I'm just too ignorant of VMS formats here. But isn't there a plain Stream as well (which also exists in RSX), in which records are terminated by CR+LF, and which is what I would expect a Windows machine to produce... Directory LEGATO::SYS$SPECIFIC:[FAL$SERVER] 31-DEC-12 13:59:07 INFO.TXT;1 Size: 8./35. Created: 08-JUL-10 10:54:52 Owner: [000376,000373] Revised: 27-DEC-12 19:24:34(6.) Expires: <none_specified> File protection: System:RE, Owner:RE, Group:RE, World:RE File organization: Sequential File attributes: Allocation=0 Record format: Stream-CR, no maximum defined Record attributes: Carriage return What does it mean if you have stream-CR and attribute Carriage Return? I mean, yes, each record is separated by a CR, and then what? Add an additional CR at the end of each line? "Record format" refers to the data in the file. Stream_CR means that the records are delineated with a <carriage-return> character. RMS will then populate its internal buffers and the user's buffer upon a $GET with the current record data up to the <carriage-return> character. RMS internal handlers discard this <carriage-return> and update the NRP (Next Record Pointer) leaving it pointing after the <carriage-return> to a subsequent (assuming there is one) record. "Record attributes" refer to how to present the record to the application that performed the $GET to read the record. With "Record attributes" set to "Carriage return", RMS will synthesize a record with <carriage-return> and <line-feed>. If the "Record format" is VFC (Variable Format Control), this synthesis is over-ruled by the format in the VFC header of each and every record. Ah. This do make sense, actually, and matches RSX. (Except there is no Stream_CR, there is only a Stream format.) I obviously did not think enough here. However, the actual contents of the file, as seen if I copy it to RSX, totally belies this, as there aren't a single CR in that whole file. But it might be that things are mangled in the process of the transfer. This is fugly. On VMS, I would typically read a file like this into TECO and then, EX (exit) to write out a new file that will have typical VMS RMS file attributes. $ EDITT/TECO <the-file> *EX$$ <-- the $ is echoed by TECO when entring an escape $ (ie. escape => CTRL-[) How wonderful to see someone else but me use Teco. Yes, this is a pretty useful property of Teco. It "fixes" weird files... Unfortunately, I already tried it in RSX, and failed, since the whole file appears as just one big line, and Teco on RSX refuse to touch it. Maybe I should teach Teco a new trick - how to read weird stream format files... Johnny

12 years, 5 months

INFO.TXT, was Re: [HECnet] UPDATE: HECNET.HLP file for VMS systems

by system＠TMESIS.COM

Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes: On 2012-12-31 08:08, sampsa at mac.com wrote: Funny thing about LEGATO's INFO.TXT - my parser looks for the .BEGIN-HECNET-INFO tag and deletes all text after that. I should probably make a manual HLP file for LEGATO, Bob you OK with that? LEGATO's INFO.TXT have real yucky file attributes and a real yucky file format. :-) (What on earth was used to produce it???) Stream_CR typically surfaces with files coming from WEENDOZE. Directory LEGATO::SYS$SPECIFIC:[FAL$SERVER] 31-DEC-12 13:59:07 INFO.TXT;1 Size: 8./35. Created: 08-JUL-10 10:54:52 Owner: [000376,000373] Revised: 27-DEC-12 19:24:34(6.) Expires: <none_specified> File protection: System:RE, Owner:RE, Group:RE, World:RE File organization: Sequential File attributes: Allocation=0 Record format: Stream-CR, no maximum defined Record attributes: Carriage return What does it mean if you have stream-CR and attribute Carriage Return? I mean, yes, each record is separated by a CR, and then what? Add an additional CR at the end of each line? "Record format" refers to the data in the file. Stream_CR means that the records are delineated with a <carriage-return> character. RMS will then populate its internal buffers and the user's buffer upon a $GET with the current record data up to the <carriage-return> character. RMS internal handlers discard this <carriage-return> and update the NRP (Next Record Pointer) leaving it pointing after the <carriage-return> to a subsequent (assuming there is one) record. "Record attributes" refer to how to present the record to the application that performed the $GET to read the record. With "Record attributes" set to "Carriage return", RMS will synthesize a record with <carriage-return> and <line-feed>. If the "Record format" is VFC (Variable Format Control), this synthesis is over-ruled by the format in the VFC header of each and every record. This is fugly. On VMS, I would typically read a file like this into TECO and then, EX (exit) to write out a new file that will have typical VMS RMS file attributes. $ EDITT/TECO <the-file> *EX$$ <-- the $ is echoed by TECO when entring an escape $ (ie. escape => CTRL-[) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

12 years, 5 months

New nodes..

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 31 Dec 2012, at 15:33, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote: El 31/12/2012, a les 14:29, sampsa at mac.com va escriure: I think it _COULD_, it's just PPP with some encryption and stuff thrown in. But all the implementations I know just route IP... I'm not sure you will be able to do it. It will not route DECNET packets at all. If I am not wrong you will need to run Johnny's bridge or a Multinet tunnel to make the DECNET packets flow... Or, as alternative, to make a distributed VDE pipe running over an ssh tunnel running over your PPTP connection :) Already using it to run the bridge over the link, the PPTP server hands out static IPs to different user names, so each site has a known IP. Sampsa

12 years, 5 months

New nodes..

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 31/12/2012, a les 14:29, sampsa at mac.com va escriure: I think it _COULD_, it's just PPP with some encryption and stuff thrown in. But all the implementations I know just route IP... I'm not sure you will be able to do it. It will not route DECNET packets at all. If I am not wrong you will need to run Johnny's bridge or a Multinet tunnel to make the DECNET packets flow... Or, as alternative, to make a distributed VDE pipe running over an ssh tunnel running over your PPTP connection :) Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

12 years, 5 months

SIMH performance on OS X vs Linux

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 31 Dec 2012, at 15:29, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote: On 31 Dec 2012, at 13:26, sampsa at mac.com wrote: I noticed that Linux SIMH is about twice as fast on OS X. KUHAVX got about 12 VUPS when running natively on a Core i5 iMac, 24 when in a Linux VM on the same hardware. Pretty weird. Does that mean there is a VUPS benchmark loose on HECnet? Where can I copy it from? I want to test a RaspberryPi! :) http://rhesus.sampsa.com/medialib/vups.com or RHESUS::[.MEDIALIB]VUPS.COM

12 years, 5 months

SIMH performance on OS X vs Linux

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-12-31 14:26, sampsa at mac.com wrote: I noticed that Linux SIMH is about twice as fast on OS X. KUHAVX got about 12 VUPS when running natively on a Core i5 iMac, 24 when in a Linux VM on the same hardware. Pretty weird. Weird indeed. Maybe 64 bit vs. 32 bit binary? Or some weird optimizations when building simh for Linux? After all, the Linux virtual machine runs rather native, so the slow down in that step is pretty minimal. Johnny

12 years, 5 months

SIMH performance on OS X vs Linux

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 31 Dec 2012, at 13:26, sampsa at mac.com wrote: I noticed that Linux SIMH is about twice as fast on OS X. KUHAVX got about 12 VUPS when running natively on a Core i5 iMac, 24 when in a Linux VM on the same hardware. Pretty weird. Does that mean there is a VUPS benchmark loose on HECnet? Where can I copy it from? I want to test a RaspberryPi! :) -- Mark Benson http://DECtec.info Twitter: @DECtecInfo HECnet: STAR69::MARK Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.

12 years, 5 months

New nodes..

by sampsa＠mac.com

I think it _COULD_, it's just PPP with some encryption and stuff thrown in. But all the implementations I know just route IP... sampsa On 31 Dec 2012, at 15:26, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote: El 31/12/2012, a les 14:24, sampsa at mac.com va escriure: I've got a PPTP VPN to my London flat (the equipment will soon be relocated to a 1/3rd colo'd rack, when I sell the place) and run the bridge over it. Works pretty well. Does that route at level 2? I mean... can you do DECNET over a PPTP VPN? Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

12 years, 5 months

New nodes..

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 31/12/2012, a les 14:24, sampsa at mac.com va escriure: I've got a PPTP VPN to my London flat (the equipment will soon be relocated to a 1/3rd colo'd rack, when I sell the place) and run the bridge over it. Works pretty well. Does that route at level 2? I mean... can you do DECNET over a PPTP VPN? Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

12 years, 5 months

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