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unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-03 10:56, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: El 03/01/2013, a les 10:42, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> va escriure: The date/time prompt is just in the script. It's totally optional as such. That said, simh do emulate an 11/93 or 11/94 just fine, which do have a toy. Thanks! I assume I will need to SYSGEN for the /93... Not really. RSX detects if it is an 11/93, and enables the additional switches to the TIM command based on that. And STARTUP.CMD also notices, and sets the clock based on the TOY. However, until you edit STARTUP.CMD, it will still ask about the time. If you've generated a system with all the bells and whistles, the doing a new SYSGEN won't really change anything. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

13 years, 1 month

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 03/01/2013, a les 8:26, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> va escriure: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 03/01/2013, a les 0:10, "Rob Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> va escriure: I have been struggling particularly with PDP10, trying to get TOPS-10 to use it, but I really don't know how and my attempt to build a new monitor with DMR11 emulation (almost identical to DMC11) failed at the link stage, but I don't know why. That is what happens here too... My guess is it is necessary to build a modified TOPS10.REL. But without the docs it can be quite difficult. I have just found there is a bug in the current HEAD version that prevents to use the DZ multiplexer in the pdp10 simulator (it seems to work in the pdp11 and VAXen though). Work-in-progress software is wonderful :) Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 1 month

unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 03/01/2013, a les 10:42, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> va escriure: The date/time prompt is just in the script. It's totally optional as such. That said, simh do emulate an 11/93 or 11/94 just fine, which do have a toy. Thanks! I assume I will need to SYSGEN for the /93... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 1 month

unattended booting, was Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-03 08:29, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 03/01/2013, a les 3:17, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> va escriure: Or else don't worry about an incorrect date at startup. Unattended boot of RSX is trivial. Ouch... I had the impression that SIMH lacked the TOY needed to boot without that date/time prompt. The date/time prompt is just in the script. It's totally optional as such. That said, simh do emulate an 11/93 or 11/94 just fine, which do have a toy. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

13 years, 1 month

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 03/01/2013, a les 9:33, G. <gerry77 at mail.com> va escriure: The Software Installation Guide lists a bunch of MONGEN questions related to DECnet on KS10s, asking for KMC/DUP or DMR hardware characteristics. A quick Google search seems to confirm that both KMC and DMR are very similar to DMC and software compatible with it. DMR should be a DMC enhancement/replacement. Well, tried it: (...) Number of KMC/DUP Lines (0,0-2) : 1 Type of line for KDP0 (ANF10,DECNET,USER,IBM) : decnet Number of PTYs (20,1-476) : Network software (YES,NO) : yes Node name : bitxr4 Number of remote TTYs (456,0-456) : ANF-10 software (YES,NO) : no DECnet software (YES,NO) : yes Node name (BITXR4) : Area number of central site (1,1-63) : 7 Node number of central site (1,1-1023) : 904 Router type (ROUTING,NONROUTING) : routing Transmit password (DECNET20) : Remote terminals (YES,NO) : (...) At link time I get some undefined symbols: . r link *newsys/save/noinitial/hash:13k = /locals - #common,comdev,commod,tops10[10,7,mon,ks]/search- #/patch:200/counters/go [LNKRLC Reloc. ctr. initial value current value limit value .LOW. 0 71001 344000 .HIGH. 344000 664031 720000 .INIT. 740000 764725 771000 .TWIC. 771000 772401 1000000 Absolute code loaded] ?LNKUGS 7 undefined global symbols NTFONC 456353 GIVSTC 456516 NTDPRV 460114 GETSTC 456543 NTONPJ 456373 NTFSEC 456354 PCBPCV 461503 My gess was the distributed TOPS10.REL does not contain all the required modules, so it should be rebuilt somehow. The "A" appendix in the software installation manual is supposed to explain that, but it has not been of much help... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 1 month

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Thu, 03 Jan 2013 09:33:55 +0100, you wrote: There is a DECnet-10 tape, but it mostly contains software for front-end based DECnet solutions (KL10 only), e.g. PDP-11s in disguise called DN20s and the like. The only useful file from the DECnet tape is NML.EXE which can be found elsewhere too. Anyway, the DECnet tape is BB-X116C-BB and is available on Trailing Edge; there is also a newer BB-X116D-BB, which is somewhat hidden, but can be located using the search by filename function... :P I stand corrected: the "hidden" tape is another one (Cobol for TOPS-20, if I'm not wrong). DECnet tapes are simply there in the Trailing Edge repository, and even more than two if we count older ones not for 7.04... :) Sorry, G.

13 years, 1 month

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

-----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Sent: 03 January 2013 07:27 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10 Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 03/01/2013, a les 0:10, "Rob Jarratt" <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> va escriure: I have been struggling particularly with PDP10, trying to get TOPS-10 to use it, but I really don't know how and my attempt to build a new monitor with DMR11 emulation (almost identical to DMC11) failed at the link stage, but I don't know why. That is what happens here too... My guess is it is necessary to build a modified TOPS10.REL. But without the docs it can be quite difficult.= I have had communication from a PDP10 expert who makes me think it is *much* more complex than just rebuilding the monitor. The DMR11 may well have been in the PDP11 front end and I am not sure how that is done in SIMH at the moment. Regards Rob

13 years, 1 month

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:43:57 -0500, you wrote:

13 years, 1 month

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:26:49 +0100, you wrote: I have been struggling particularly with PDP10, trying to get TOPS-10 to use it, but I really don't know how and my attempt to build a new monitor with DMR11 emulation (almost identical to DMC11) failed at the link stage, but I don't know why. That is what happens here too... My guess is it is necessary to build a modified TOPS10.REL. But without the docs it can be quite difficult. No, TOPS10.REL is just a library (MAKLIB made) of relocatable binary objects (.REL) ready to be assembled. It contains every possible Monitor module for standard configurations. During Monitor linking only the relevant modules are extracted and used to build the final Monitor executable file. When I'll have some spare time, I can try to build a DMR11-enabled Monitor, just to verify that everything works: I've been able to build a lot of Ethernet Monitors with no problems, so this would be to exclude bugs in other modules not used for Ethernet. I've discovered that it wouldn't be so strange to find some glitch that prevents some configurations from building... BTW, I once had to replace a module into TOPS20.REL, i.e. CLOCK1.REL, to take advantage of the KLH10 emulator idle function. I just COMPILed CLOCK1.MAC (and a couple of other required files, notably F.MAC and S.MAC) and then I replaced in TOPS10.REL the old CLOCK1.REL with my new one using MAKLIB. :) The alternative was to patch every new monitor to change a single instruction instead of changing it into the relevant source module. I think it would have been feasible even to directly patch TOPS10.REL, but I found easier to replace the module than to understand and learn how to locate something inside it. Bye, :) G.

13 years, 1 month

DMC11 in next simh version... looks nice, and question about TOPS-10

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Wed, 02 Jan 2013 22:33:33 +0100, you wrote: Now the question. It seems the DMC11 device is supported in the KS10 emulation. Could it be posible to use it to DECNETize (and HECNETize) TOPS-10 over simh? I have not been able to find the docs to install DECNET-10 in a 7.04 monitor... Any TOPS-10 hacker around? :) Well, I've done my TOPS-10 7.04 install (plus TSU patch tapes that upgraded it to 7.05), but I've done it on KLH10 (KL10 emulation) with Ethernet support, so things may be somewhat different. At the time I chose KLH10 right because my goal was to have a DECnet-10 node and that appeared (or was?) the only way. Starting with 7.04 (or maybe even 7.03), DECnet sources are bundled with Monitor sources and to have DECnet you just have to build a DECnet-enabled custom Monitor (which you should build anyway). At boot time everything starts automatically: the Monitor calls KNILDR.EXE to load microcode into the Ethernet and then starts DECnet network service (with help by Galaxy, except for FAL streams that are started by OPR). There is a DECnet-10 tape, but it mostly contains software for front-end based DECnet solutions (KL10 only), e.g. PDP-11s in disguise called DN20s and the like. The only useful file from the DECnet tape is NML.EXE which can be found elsewhere too. Anyway, the DECnet tape is BB-X116C-BB and is available on Trailing Edge; there is also a newer BB-X116D-BB, which is somewhat hidden, but can be located using the search by filename function... :P The DECnet-10 manual I'm reading (AA-L413B-TB) says that DECnet starts at boot time without intervention, whatever the interface used (but front-ends have to be loaded). So, in your KS10 + DMC11 configuration all is needed seems to be a DECnet-enabled Monitor with the right pieces to speak to that hardware. The Software Installation Guide lists a bunch of MONGEN questions related to DECnet on KS10s, asking for KMC/DUP or DMR hardware characteristics. A quick Google search seems to confirm that both KMC and DMR are very similar to DMC and software compatible with it. DMR should be a DMC enhancement/replacement. Look for the following in Bitsavers (/dec/pdp10/TOPS10_softwareNotebooks/): /vol20/AA-P379B-TB_TOPS-10_DECnet_and_PSI_Installation_Guide_Apr86.pdf /vol20/AA-L413B-TB_DECnet_and_PSI_System_Managers_and_Operators_Guide_Apr86.pdf The most updated software installation guide can be found here: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops10v704_docc/01/10,7/docupd/sig.mem.html HTH, :) G.

13 years, 1 month

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