Mark - that is the theory, but in practice it is not going to tell you much that you can really take to the bank. Why? Because Whetstone is a poor benchmark -- the results vary too much depending on compiler, language implementation, architecture etc -- its too easy to game. please do some goggling -- around 1985 it fell out of favor because it as so meaningless.
John Mashey (then late of PWB and at the time ??CTO?? of MIPS) wrote a great piece which he cribbed the name from Benjamin Disraeli called: "Lies, Damned Lies and Benchmarks" - IIRC whetstone was one of the benchmarks he rips apart in that paper. John and others really set out to create a set of benchmarks that could work regardless of compiler and architecture that told you something reasonable about the system. That group would form SPEC.
So, if you really want to do this type of analysis, I think for the effort you suggesting, it be worth the extra time to dig up a copy of specint and run that not whetstone. What is cool is that all the manufacturers published their spec numbers so you can see what you should expect and what you get so you'll have real base line and be able to make some more direct inferences.
Clem
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 15 Jan 2013, at 01:41, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
> Somebody was asking for a better benchmark than VUPS earlier, I found WHETSTONE.C on GORVAX which calculates MIPS. Not sure how much better it is than VUPS.COM, but here are some results:
>
> GORVAX (SIMH VAX, on a Core i5)
> Loops: 1000, Iterations: 1, Duration: 5 sec.
> C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 20.0 MIPS
>
> CHIMPY (DS10)
> Loops: 10000, Iterations: 1, Duration: 2 sec.
> C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 500.0 MIPS
>
> RHESUS (rx2600)
> Loops: 100000, Iterations: 1, Duration: 4 sec.
> C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 2500.0 MIPS
>
> I've attached the C source to this message, and will put binaries for all three platforms as well as the source in RHESUS::[.MEDIALIB.WHETSTONE]
The cool thing about this is is compiles on other platforms, so we can do cool stuff like:
- Compare the available MIPS inside an emulator to the available MIPS on the host OS, giving a MIPS:MIPS ratio for emulator code
- Compare directly the power of older CPUs with newer ones and also derive ap erformance MIPS/Watt figure for various systems.
- Find out how incredibly CPUs have advanced in 50 years!
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/15/2013 11:58 AM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
If I remember right, PDP-11 Algol has been mentioned on this list
from time to time. That was released via DECUS, and I've seen those
bits in the past. The problem always was that the runtime code
(algol.rts) showed up only as a binary, no sources.
It looks like I have a copy of the sources. Would there be interest
in that? This is for RSTS (as a runtime system) though the I/O is
pretty simple and could presumably be adjusted for some other OS if
anyone wants to.
I'd love to play with this!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Paul, you know you can always hang stuff on RSTS.ORG if you'd like. You
should probably have a page here anyway.
Brett
Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> writes:
Nice! That command procedure's comments say that it only works on
specific releases of VAX/VMS, namely 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.4-2, 5.5, 6.0, and
6.1. Does anyone know if it works on (say) 7.3 as well? I'm guessing
no, due to the nature of the version-specific changes.
With the appropriate offsets for the patching, sure. A quick source
perusal show show that.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 01/15/2013 11:58 AM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
If I remember right, PDP-11 Algol has been mentioned on this list
from time to time. That was released via DECUS, and I've seen those
bits in the past. The problem always was that the runtime code
(algol.rts) showed up only as a binary, no sources.
It looks like I have a copy of the sources. Would there be interest
in that? This is for RSTS (as a runtime system) though the I/O is
pretty simple and could presumably be adjusted for some other OS if
anyone wants to.
I'd love to play with this!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Nice! That command procedure's comments say that it only works on
specific releases of VAX/VMS, namely 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.4-2, 5.5, 6.0, and
6.1. Does anyone know if it works on (say) 7.3 as well? I'm guessing
no, due to the nature of the version-specific changes.
-Dave
On 01/14/2013 01:54 PM, Erik Olofsen wrote:
And the result:
VAX/VMS Monitor Utility
ETHERNET STATISTICS
on node RULLFS
14-JAN-2013 19:54:12
CUR AVE MIN MAX
Packets/second 20.59 28.87 12.95 85.04
Kbytes/second 2.65 3.66 1.99 8.63
Packet size 121.00 140.10 102.00 169.00
Multicast Packets/second 4.31 5.61 3.65 8.27
Multicast Kbytes/second 0.33 0.66 0.32 1.32
Multicast Packet size 108.00 119.80 90.00 196.00
Trans Single Collision 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Trans Multiple Collision 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Trans Initially Deferred 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Internal Buffer Error 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Local Buffer Error 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Buffer Unavailable 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 07:29:01PM +0100, Erik Olofsen wrote:
With Google I found:
https://mail.encompasserve.org/anon/htnotes/note?f1=VMS&f2=2314.0
Erik
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 05:54:54PM +0000, lee.gleason at comcast.net wrote:
I get:
$ patch monitor.exe
PATCH Version 5-05 20-June-1991
%PATCH-I-NOLCL, image does not contain local symbols
%PATCH-I-NOGBL, some or all global symbols not accessible
PATCH>exam 4158+33e
00004496: 00000000
Erik
The addresses of the structures changed for each version or so of VMS...you'd need to locate them with the fiche, or reading a dump of the image, or , for older versions of VMS, just using the Google to find one for your version. I enclosed that one just as an example of what gets patched.
Lessee....I also recall that MON ETHERNET required PHY_IO privilege, and needed a logical name NI$DEVICE set to be your network adapter's name to work.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
lee.gleason at comcast.net
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 15 Jan 2013, at 01:41, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Somebody was asking for a better benchmark than VUPS earlier, I found WHETSTONE.C on GORVAX which calculates MIPS. Not sure how much better it is than VUPS.COM, but here are some results:
GORVAX (SIMH VAX, on a Core i5)
Loops: 1000, Iterations: 1, Duration: 5 sec.
C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 20.0 MIPS
CHIMPY (DS10)
Loops: 10000, Iterations: 1, Duration: 2 sec.
C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 500.0 MIPS
RHESUS (rx2600)
Loops: 100000, Iterations: 1, Duration: 4 sec.
C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 2500.0 MIPS
I've attached the C source to this message, and will put binaries for all three platforms as well as the source in RHESUS::[.MEDIALIB.WHETSTONE]
The cool thing about this is is compiles on other platforms, so we can do cool stuff like:
- Compare the available MIPS inside an emulator to the available MIPS on the host OS, giving a MIPS:MIPS ratio for emulator code
- Compare directly the power of older CPUs with newer ones and also derive ap erformance MIPS/Watt figure for various systems.
- Find out how incredibly CPUs have advanced in 50 years!
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
On 1/15/2013 1:20 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > You'd need
to '$ DELETEE/SYMBOL/LOCAL XYZZY' to get the global definition. > In
your case, XYZZY is replaced with UNZIP.
Basically it's the whole DELETE/SYMBOL thing i needed to do to clear out
the old copy.
Now I know. :)
;)
You need to appreciate the whole symbol defintion and scope thing. There
are both GLOBAL and LOCAL symbol definitions in DCL. A GLOBAL symbol can
be resolved from ANY procedure level. A LOCAL symbol can only be resolved
in/at the procedure level in which is is/was defined.
$ SET NOON
$ XYZZY = "this is a local symbol"
$ SHOW SYMBOL XYZZY
$ CALL MYSUB
$ SHOW SYMBOL XYZZY
$ EXIT
$
$ MYSUB: SUBROUTINE
$ SHOW SYMBOL XYZZY
$ XYZZY = "redefine this local symbol"
$ SHOW SYMBOL XYZZY
$ EXIT
$ ENDSUBROUTINE
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 15 Jan 2013, at 13:27, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
On 1/15/2013 1:17 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Python's almost installed. All i'll need to do is install pexpect.
Sweet!
Any particular username you want?
G. <gerry77 at mail.com> writes:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:06:29 -0500, you wrote:
SYS$STARTUP:SYLOGIN.COM? I thought it was in SYS$MANAGER?
If it's in the right place, both logicals will work :)
try sho log sys$startup and sho log sys$manager :)
SYS$STARTUP is a searchlist which comprises SYS$MANAGER.
$ SHOW LOGICAL SYS$STARTUP
"SYS$STARTUP" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
= "SYS$MANAGER"
1 "SYS$MANAGER" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
