HECnet

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15556 discussions

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by b4＠gewt.net

On 18 Jan 2013, at 15:44, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 01/18/2013 02:38 AM, John Wilson wrote: I remember being thoroughly impressed with the Z8530, and I've used it in several projects since then... I'm pretty !@*^% impressed too (except for the annoying two-step register access, which I guess is fixed in other versions). That DPLL is the perfect thing for ham packet radio -- wish I'd known about that (I paid Real Money for a used DUP11 about 20 years ago hoping to use it for hamming but never got around to building the circuitry it would have taken to whip up a clock, but it seems the Z8530 already has that and was commonly available at the time -- dammit!). I hate when that happens! So yes...if you're doing sync stuff with it, that might be very handy if we do this and it goes this route. Sync is the plan but I don't yet have anything to test against (waiting for some trivial PCBs to come back that save me the trouble of piecing together a Berg-to-DB25 cable for my DUV11, and I think they'll also work for DMV11s and DUP11s, so I'll have plenty to test/debug with). So that'll change within the next week and I'm working to have code ready by then. Gotcha. I'm interested in hearing of your progress; that sounds like fun! I would imagine it'd be offended. ;) However if memory serves, HDLC frames contain a few bits' worth of sequence numbers. BTW is there any particular target in mind for this? Ask Ian. ;) If it's for HECnet, DDCMP would probably be more useful than the annoying bit-stuffing protocols. But better yet would be to support everything ... no point in having to build almost the same thing again later. I'd be up for almost anything. I like the idea of tunneling old protocols within standardized (if just as old) networking systems to enable connectivity where it wasn't possible before. If we do this, and if we can make it as flexible as possible, I'd be happy. As for config: is using the RS232 port (in async mode) too easy? I think a lot of people would be bothered by it because they think RS232 is no longer common (wrong) and that USB<->serial adapters don't work well (wrong) or that terminal programs are somehow hard to find (also wrong). Granted "those" people are probably not the target market, though. RS232 is no longer common on average consumer PeeCees. ;) Who the hell says terminal programs are hard to find? GNU Screen can be a terminal emulator, along with minty, HyperTerminal, putty the list goes on and on... -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 3 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/18/2013 02:38 AM, John Wilson wrote: I remember being thoroughly impressed with the Z8530, and I've used it in several projects since then... I'm pretty !@*^% impressed too (except for the annoying two-step register access, which I guess is fixed in other versions). That DPLL is the perfect thing for ham packet radio -- wish I'd known about that (I paid Real Money for a used DUP11 about 20 years ago hoping to use it for hamming but never got around to building the circuitry it would have taken to whip up a clock, but it seems the Z8530 already has that and was commonly available at the time -- dammit!). I hate when that happens! So yes...if you're doing sync stuff with it, that might be very handy if we do this and it goes this route. Sync is the plan but I don't yet have anything to test against (waiting for some trivial PCBs to come back that save me the trouble of piecing together a Berg-to-DB25 cable for my DUV11, and I think they'll also work for DMV11s and DUP11s, so I'll have plenty to test/debug with). So that'll change within the next week and I'm working to have code ready by then. Gotcha. I'm interested in hearing of your progress; that sounds like fun! I would imagine it'd be offended. ;) However if memory serves, HDLC frames contain a few bits' worth of sequence numbers. BTW is there any particular target in mind for this? Ask Ian. ;) If it's for HECnet, DDCMP would probably be more useful than the annoying bit-stuffing protocols. But better yet would be to support everything ... no point in having to build almost the same thing again later. I'd be up for almost anything. I like the idea of tunneling old protocols within standardized (if just as old) networking systems to enable connectivity where it wasn't possible before. If we do this, and if we can make it as flexible as possible, I'd be happy. As for config: is using the RS232 port (in async mode) too easy? I think a lot of people would be bothered by it because they think RS232 is no longer common (wrong) and that USB<->serial adapters don't work well (wrong) or that terminal programs are somehow hard to find (also wrong). Granted "those" people are probably not the target market, though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 3 months

Re: Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

On 18.1.2013 16:55, sampsa at mac.com wrote: It'd be nice to be able to, say, do X.25 as well as DECNET. If I can find the sync serial hardware for the Prime, I'd use one for X.25 there. We HAVE to get an X.25 network going, seriously. What equipment do I need, a PAD and some kinda modem? :) sampsa . How about taking say a pair of Cisco routers and connect them back-to-back over Ethernet and connect the X.25 stuff to the serial ports at each end. :) Kari

12 years, 3 months

Re: Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by b4＠gewt.net

On 18 Jan 2013, at 09:55, sampsa at mac.com wrote: It'd be nice to be able to, say, do X.25 as well as DECNET. If I can find the sync serial hardware for the Prime, I'd use one for X.25 there. We HAVE to get an X.25 network going, seriously. What equipment do I need, a PAD and some kinda modem? :) I agree. We HAVE to. sampsa -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff! http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.

12 years, 3 months

Sample DCL code for simple client-server task-to-task comms

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-01-18 07:41, sampsa at mac.com wrote: Half a year or maybe a year ago. Sampsa was running a program which used PHONE to check who was logged in on various machines. When he tried all machines in area 1, MIM got loads of entries in the log for Sampsa's machine trying to talk with machines that were down. (I might be remembering things wrong, and I might be mixing things up, but it was not as if MIM crashed or anything because of Sampsa's code, but I asked him to stop, as he was filling up plenty of logs as far as I can remember.) Yeah, I didn't mean crashed MIM or anything, but caused problems - basically the phone directory just went through the nodelist and did a PHONE DIR to them..If a node was down, the call would fail. It wasn't a good idea from BQT's side :) I don't remember all the details now, but I think it was something with the DECnet stack you used which made this worse. I seem to remember trying the same thing myself in various ways I couldn't trigger the logging. Did you run it under Linux, or what was it? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 3 months

Re: Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by sampsa＠mac.com

It'd be nice to be able to, say, do X.25 as well as DECNET. If I can find the sync serial hardware for the Prime, I'd use one for X.25 there. We HAVE to get an X.25 network going, seriously. What equipment do I need, a PAD and some kinda modem? :) sampsa

12 years, 3 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by drb＠msu.edu

BTW is there any particular target in mind for this? If it's for HECnet, DDCMP would probably be more useful than the annoying bit-stuffing protocols. But better yet would be to support everything ... no point in having to build almost the same thing again later. It'd be nice to be able to, say, do X.25 as well as DECNET. If I can find the sync serial hardware for the Prime, I'd use one for X.25 there. Ditto on the IBM side and SNA or 3270 concentrator setups over "leased lines". De

12 years, 3 months

Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

CDN$ 59 is a good price. In the Netherlands I'd expect to pay EUR 80. -----Original Message----- From: Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:11:32 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed All this discussion got me off my a$$, and I looked around locally for a powerline ethernet device today. I found a D-Link DHP-309AV "PowerLine AV+ Mini Adapter Starter Kit" for $59 CDN. The specifications say "up to 200Mbps speed", however plugging into a gigabit switch it only negotiates 100Mbps, so I suspect "200Mbps" is marketing-speak for 100Mbps full duplex. Never mind, because the garage-end of my network is only 10Mbps (most of it is 10Base2 coax). At first, I plugged them in to available power bars, but I was getting a red light on the device indicating a low signal level. I unplugged from the power bars and plugged directly into an outlet, and it works perfectly. I suspect the surge suppression features of the power bars was interfering. I'm saturating my 10Mbps circuit and I'm not getting any of the strange dropout errors I was getting with the wireless link. $59 is a small price to pay compared to drilling holes through exterior house walls and crimping RJ45 connectors. Ian On 2013-01-17, at 1:14 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: On 17 Jan 2013, at 15:45, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: On 1/17/2013 3:24 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: On 17 Jan 2013, at 15:05,hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: Two Linksys WAP54G units, that's what I'd do. The WAP54G is fairly old so may be cheap on EBay. But you're not a Linksys fan, are you? No, but from what I've recently learned, MoCa is going to be a great solution and I think it's what i'm going to go with. I ran a wifi bridge many years ago when I lived in Philly. Never worked well and then the school across the street put in a bajillion million watt APs that used EVERY FUCKING AVAILABLE CHANNEL and my bridge just stopped working completely at that point. That's when I was introduced to MoCA. 100mbit and solid. Also, latency is much lower than wireless. Also, very cheap (looking now, NIM100s are $15/each on ebay but I paid $5/each for mine) and at least here in the US coax is almost guaranteed to be in place in pretty much every house so you rarely even have to do any major wire pulls. I should probably have asked my friend who works for a local cableco instead as I lost the bid on the one. ;) At least I got a lot of 2 I'm not patient when it comes to networking. -brian --- Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here: http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=E199F50A60EA11E29…

12 years, 3 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by wilson＠dbit.com

From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> I built a Z8530-based AX.25 PAD for ham packet radio...but that was 25 years ago! Nice! I remember being thoroughly impressed with the Z8530, and I've used it in several projects since then... I'm pretty !@*^% impressed too (except for the annoying two-step register access, which I guess is fixed in other versions). That DPLL is the perfect thing for ham packet radio -- wish I'd known about that (I paid Real Money for a used DUP11 about 20 years ago hoping to use it for hamming but never got around to building the circuitry it would have taken to whip up a clock, but it seems the Z8530 already has that and was commonly available at the time -- dammit!). So yes...if you're doing sync stuff with it, that might be very handy if we do this and it goes this route. Sync is the plan but I don't yet have anything to test against (waiting for some trivial PCBs to come back that save me the trouble of piecing together a Berg-to-DB25 cable for my DUV11, and I think they'll also work for DMV11s and DUP11s, so I'll have plenty to test/debug with). So that'll change within the next week and I'm working to have code ready by then. I would imagine it'd be offended. ;) However if memory serves, HDLC frames contain a few bits' worth of sequence numbers. BTW is there any particular target in mind for this? If it's for HECnet, DDCMP would probably be more useful than the annoying bit-stuffing protocols. But better yet would be to support everything ... no point in having to build almost the same thing again later. As for config: is using the RS232 port (in async mode) too easy? John Wilson D Bit

12 years, 3 months

Sync serial bridging over Ethernet, was Re: [HECnet] Multi-floor household (DECnet) routing help needed

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 01/18/2013 02:06 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote: What sort of hardware interface would you envision? Two ports - Sync and Ethernet. Maybe a couple of status LEDs. That sounds good, but I meant what sort of hardware on the sync serial side. RS232 with the requisite sync clocks? What do we need for config? Local IP address, Remote IP address, Baud rate (because we'd need to generate clock if I'm not mistaken). Yes. Probably not much more than that. How do we get parameters in? Web interface or telnet CLI ? Maybe DHCP extra parameters (no need to write a GUI, but some people will find configuring their DHCP server to serve additional parameters very difficult). If people are using DHCP servers built into consumer-grade networking equipment, yes. :-( Maybe a telnet-interfaced CLI would be best. That said, though, I've done a very simple HTTP server under FreeRTOS, and it could be made to do basic CGI stuff. UDP means not having to worry about master and slave. But it brings with it the need to deal with packet ordering somehow. That can get complicated. Is it a good trade-off? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 3 months

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