Evening,
Brian: Have you gotten around to updating the config? I'm trying to get my crazy routing to work and I need to get connected to HECnet to test.
I have a router in the basement (9.1022) routing to the core (9.1023). 9.1022 is routing-iv, 9.1023 is area. I want to have 9.1022 pass all traffic that isn't destined for 9.XXXX to 9.1023 to hand off. Is this the way to do it? (I actually can't do it any other way. The routers are connected together over MoCa and I'm not doing layer 2 between them)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
While the Massbus adapter talked SMD for all these drives, the Massbus
adapter for the RM02/03 is not the same as for the RM05. Unless I
remember wrong, they are very different beasts. And they identify
themself as the exact type of drive on the Massbus as well, and the
capacities and geometries differs, which is important, as Massbus drives
expose all these details to the computer.
The RM adapter is *mostly* the same across RM02/03/05/80, but yes I think in
each case there's at least one board that's different (later version to add
register bits for larger drives etc.). It's the same basic design though.
The one in the RM05 is mounted differently (horiz instead of vert) so you
can fit two of them into the mini-cab between two drives. The others all
had enough space under the drive itself for the RM adapter so they didn't
bother trying to conserve space.
John Wilson
D Bit
On 2013-07-16 03:34, Bob Armstrong wrote:
lee.gleason at comcast.net wrote:
I remember poring over the drawings for the RB730 at the time,
wondering if a plain non-DEC SMD drive would have worked ....
Yeah - I was wondering the same thing. The RM80 Technical Manual doesn't seem to be online, but the RM MASSBUS Adapter Technical Manual
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/pdf/EK-RMA…
has a lot of information about the RM80 too. It looks like the RM80 used the same MASSBUS Drive Control Logic box as the RM0x drives. As I remember, the RM02/3/5 were CDC 9760-something drives, which were SMD. Of course it's possible that the DEC OEM versions had customized interfaces.
The RB730 Technical Manual is also online
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/vax/730/EK-RB730-TD-001_VAX-11_7…
and it has a description of the R80 interface, but this version doesn't look that much like SMD to me.
While the Massbus adapter talked SMD for all these drives, the Massbus adapter for the RM02/03 is not the same as for the RM05. Unless I remember wrong, they are very different beasts. And they identify themself as the exact type of drive on the Massbus as well, and the capacities and geometries differs, which is important, as Massbus drives expose all these details to the computer.
So I very much doubt the Massbus adapter for the RM80 is the same as either of the others.
(The RM02 and RM03 is the same drive, just with different rotational speed.)
Also, the RP04/05/06 are also SMD drives inside, but with a totally different Massbus - SMD interface. And yes, as John mentioned, DEC actually did slightly change the SMD interface so that it is not a plug and play with any other SMD drives, even if other parameters would be compatible.
Oh, and by the way, I'm not sure the R80 is an SMD drive at all. Is it?
Johnny
On 2013-07-16 02:42, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Was there ever a UNIBUS DSSI controller or were they all XMI only like
the KFMSA ? That d be pretty convenient to use either:
$DSSI_CONTROLLER <-> HSD <-> BA350 <-> SCSI to CF adapter
or
$DSSI_CONTROLLER <-> HSV <-> BA356 <-> SCSI to CF adapter
As others mentioned - DSSI existed for Qbus. But no, nothing for Unibus.
However, seems like a long way around to get to SCSI by using DSSI. Why not go SCSI direct in that case?
Johnny
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote:
SCSI has already been mentioned. On the 8650 I "have", there is UDA-50
with RA92 and RA73 drives, and CI, which in the end leads to more SCSI
disks....
But you can't hook CI to a 11/730 either...
Awwww.
Unfortunate, but nto surprising.
I ve actually had the 11/730 for about fifteen years now I restored
it out of parts from two different 730s that were scrapped. It s been
fairly easy to keep running except for the drives, and although it s
admittedly a bit slow, it s a cool machine.
It is horribly slow... :-)
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2013-07-15 22:32, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Cory Smelosky [b4 at gewt.net] wrote:
You could rig up a MASSBUS-compatible controller that interfaces
with either full SCSI/IDE ....
No MASSBUS controllers on the 730, remember? The only MASSBUS controllers
supported by VMS are the RH750 (for the 11/750) and RH780 (for the 11/78x).
The RH780 was also used on the 86x0 machines.
I'd love to see your -11/730 working on HECnet!
LARGO::, 2.6. It's been up many times and will be again, as long as the
current disk holds out.
Alternatively, can a -11/730 be booted over the network?
No, there's no netboot for any 7xx VAX...
Correct, for the most common definition. Of course, if you manage to start some special bootstrap program, if could boot off the net just as well as something else. But VMB on these machines do not have that support, so it's a chicken-and-egg problem most of the time.
Johnny (Who have netbooted NetBSD on an 8650)
On 2013-07-15 16:37, Clem Cole wrote:
Unibus to SCSI is probably your best bet.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/cmd/CDU-720_May92.pdf
These are available on eBay for about a $1K last I looked. You'll need
to poke around the VMS web sites for the drivers, but we had some of
these on a couple Unibus machines, including a 780 a >>long<< time ago.
I know no reason why it would work for a 730 - although you might
need to sysgen on a working system to create the boot disk.
Something like a CDU-720 will work just fine. Normal MSCP, so no special device drivers needed either. Works fine in an 11/730, or any Unibus machine in fact. Bootable on just about anything as well.
Johnny
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com
<mailto:bob at jfcl.com>> wrote:
My 11/730 is not happy the electronics work great and are even
fairly easy to fix, but keeping disk drives on the thing working is
proving to be a challenge. Right now it has two RA81s and one has
quit completely ( servo fine position error ) and the other is
flaky. The original R80 on the RB730 had the HDA die years ago and
I ve never been able to find a replacement.____
__ __
I have several vintage SMD drives, including a couple of nice CDC
9715 drives, that I was thinking about using to replace the RA8x
drives. I have not one but two UNIBUS SMD controllers an Emulex
SC21 and a Spectra Logic 121 that I thought would do the job, but
after reading the fine print yesterday that turns out not to be
true. Both controllers emulate RH11s with RM0x drives attached,
which is fine if you re a PDP-11 but VMS has never supported that
configuration.____
__ __
[Before anybody says Wait RM05s are supported by VMS, that s
only partly true. VMS supported MASSBUS disks on a RH750 or RH780
controller, but VMS has never supported the RH11. Emulex actually
sold a special VMS driver for their card, but I don t have it and
besides, VMB still wouldn t support it. The Spectra Logic manual
only talks about PDP-11 OSes and carefully avoids ever mentioning
VMS.]____
__ __
I ve got some RA7x drives, but there s no easy way to mount them
or supply power to them. I m not sure if there ever was a rack
mount chassis for RA7x drives. There was for RA9x drives, but those
I don t have. I also have two RC25 drives and several AZTEC
controllers, but those drives were horribly unreliable even when
they were new. Neither works, and fixing them or getting removable
media for them is hopeless.____
__ __
Does anybody have any other ideas? Who else has an old UNIBUS
VAX? What are you doing to disk drives? ____
__ __
I ve actually had the 11/730 for about fifteen years now I
restored it out of parts from two different 730s that were
scrapped. It s been fairly easy to keep running except for the
drives, and although it s admittedly a bit slow, it s a cool
machine.____
__ __
Bob____
Been away a few days, so late into the game. But anyway...
On 2013-07-15 16:21, Bob Armstrong wrote:
My 11/730 is not happy the electronics work great and are even
fairly easy to fix, but keeping disk drives on the thing working is
proving to be a challenge. Right now it has two RA81s and one has quit
completely ( servo fine position error ) and the other is flaky. The
original R80 on the RB730 had the HDA die years ago and I ve never been
able to find a replacement.
Saw the talk about the R80. I believe that either an RA80 or RM80 could provide the bits for the R80, but finding either would be difficult today.
RA81 is probably easier to deal with, but those are also getting rare.
I have several vintage SMD drives, including a couple of nice CDC
9715 drives, that I was thinking about using to replace the RA8x
drives. I have not one but two UNIBUS SMD controllers an Emulex SC21
and a Spectra Logic 121 that I thought would do the job, but after
reading the fine print yesterday that turns out not to be true. Both
controllers emulate RH11s with RM0x drives attached, which is fine if
you re a PDP-11 but VMS has never supported that configuration.
Right.
[Before anybody says Wait RM05s are supported by VMS, that s only
partly true. VMS supported MASSBUS disks on a RH750 or RH780
controller, but VMS has never supported the RH11. Emulex actually sold
a special VMS driver for their card, but I don t have it and besides,
VMB still wouldn t support it. The Spectra Logic manual only talks
about PDP-11 OSes and carefully avoids ever mentioning VMS.]
Not surprising, since the RH11 do not really fit into the world of VAXen very well.
I ve got some RA7x drives, but there s no easy way to mount them or
supply power to them. I m not sure if there ever was a rack mount
chassis for RA7x drives. There was for RA9x drives, but those I don t
have. I also have two RC25 drives and several AZTEC controllers, but
those drives were horribly unreliable even when they were new. Neither
works, and fixing them or getting removable media for them is hopeless.
Others already mentioned the rack box for RA7x drives. Nice hardware, if you can find it. It is the same size as the RA9x drives, but fits four RA7x drives each. With RA73 drives, you'll pack a whopping 8G on each rack location. Fairly impressive for its day. You just needs plenty of controllers... :-)
Does anybody have any other ideas? Who else has an old UNIBUS VAX?
What are you doing to disk drives?
SCSI has already been mentioned. On the 8650 I "have", there is UDA-50 with RA92 and RA73 drives, and CI, which in the end leads to more SCSI disks....
But you can't hook CI to a 11/730 either...
I ve actually had the 11/730 for about fifteen years now I restored
it out of parts from two different 730s that were scrapped. It s been
fairly easy to keep running except for the drives, and although it s
admittedly a bit slow, it s a cool machine.
It is horribly slow... :-)
Johnny
On 07/15/2013 11:00 AM, lee.gleason at comcast.net wrote:
>> My first home machine was an 11/725, to which I added an RB730
>> controller , and I used it with an RM80 for a number of years, until
>> power problems killed a bunch of boards in it. I hated losing it, since
>> I had also added a VAXstation 100 workstation peripheral to it - at the
>> time it was a pretty exotic setup for use at home. I'm still hanging on
>> tothe VS100 gear, in case another Unibus VAX comes my way.
> Do you have the VS100 interface board? I saw one on eBay a couple of
>months ago, and I slapped myself in the forehead really hard. ;) I had
>a VS100 for many years, and gave it away around 1993 because I could
>never find the interface board for it. When I saw that board hit eBay,
>I really wish I'd kept the VS100..
Yep, hung on to the board. I actually had to be a detective to get the interface board - when I bought the VS100 box and monitor, from Eli Hoffman, it didn't include the board. I had to call them, see who sold the monitor and box to them, and then trace through that organization to find the department and person who had surplused the original system, and buy the board from him.
Since these days, I have a lot more interest in RSX than VMS, and the VS100 never worked past VMS 4.7 anyway, I'm hoping I run across a UNIBUS 11 some day and see if I can write enough of a driver to get it to draw pictures. Since I have the VS100 sources, it's registers are pretty well documented.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
lee.gleason at gmail.com
On 2013-07-12 22:12, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Check that the transport lock isn't engaged.
... and that the belt tensioner isn't released. Sorry - neither is the
case. Not that easy...
It was worth a try. :-)
Anyway, I can't say my experience of the RA81 are that they are that unreliable. You have the glue issue, but that is a different kind of problem. Otherwise they have been pretty good. The RA60 on the other hand is very finicky.
But if it has developed problems I don't have many suggestions. I assume you already know about the diagnostics port.
Johnny
