HECnet

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

5 participants
15580 discussions

by Terri Kennedy

[I previously sent this reply from an email address not registered on this list, so presumaby it got bit-binned.] On 2024-11-13 14:20, Paul Koning wrote: > By "bug" I meant "specification bug". The author of the DNA NetMan > spec messed up here. Yes, VMS faithfully follows that bad design. > > The bugfix amounts to fixing the text of the spec, then changing the > implementations to match the corrected text. I don't know if the > former has ever been done but obviously a number of DECnet > implementations acted as if had been. :-) I have Alpha VMS listings kits, but stupidly gave away my VAX listings. Should someone send me a pointer to where a 7.3 listings kit can be found, I'll try to find and fix it when I get back from vacation next month. On VMS, DECnet is a System Integrated Product (SIP) so it _should_ be in the listings kit, but no guarantees. Yes, I do have a listings license and had VAX/VMS on support at the time V7.3 came out, so if someone wants me to "show my papers" be- fore they'll give me access, I can do that... >> On Nov 13, 2024, at 1:53 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)softjar.se> wrote: >> >> I would not call it a bug. It was initially defined that way. However, >> RSX officially decided to start treating it as an unsigned 16-bit >> value with the last releases, and documented this. >> >> And it's a change that do make sense. >> >> But if others have not applied the same update, then it makes sense >> that they would zero the value if it have the high bit set. >> >> Johnny >> >> On 2024-11-13 19:26, Paul Koning wrote: >>> The statement in the DECnet spec that julian half-day is 15 bits is >>> an obvious bug with an obvious fix; clearly RSX and others have made >>> that fix. VMS needs to do likewise. >>> paul >>>> On Nov 13, 2024, at 12:50 PM, John Forecast <john(a)forecast.name >>>> <mailto:john@forecast.name>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Depends on the implementation. Nov 9, 2021 on VMS, Ultrix and >>>> probably some others. RSX is good until 2065. >>>> >>>> John. >>>> >>>>> On Nov 13, 2024, at 10:24 AM, Keith Halewood >>>>> <Keith.Halewood(a)pitbulluk.org >>>>> <mailto:Keith.Halewood@pitbulluk.org>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> It has been mentioned elsewhere and maybe a while back too but I’m >>>>> not quite sure when DECnet (VAX/VMS 7.3) started serving up jewels >>>>> like: >>>>> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 13-NOV-2024 15:15:13.82 %%%%%%%%%%% >>>>> Message from user DECNET on TUPILE >>>>> DECnet event 4.10, circuit up >>>>> From node 29.109 (TUPILE), 1-JAN-1977 00:00:53.64 >>>>> Circuit UNA-0 >>>>> Regards >>>>> Keith >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HECnet mailing list --hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se >>>>> <mailto:hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se> >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email tohecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se >>>>> <mailto:hecnet-leave@lists.dfupdate.se> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se >>>> <mailto:hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se >>>> <mailto:hecnet-leave@lists.dfupdate.se> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se >>> To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se >> >> -- >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol >> _______________________________________________ >> HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se >> To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se > > _______________________________________________ > HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se > To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se

10 months

DECnet Connection Field Limits

by Thomas DeBellis

I've gotten far enough along with the Tops-20 finger server that I thought it would be a good idea to capture some of the common assumptions and requirements into a DECnet finger specification document of a sorts. The current working version can be found at: _VENTI2::DECNET-FINGER-SPECIFICATION.TXT_. I emphasize /WORKING VERSION/ as I have been working with (a very patient) Johnny to run tests, and chase down documentation bugs, gaps, inaccuracies and other delusions. It's an active work in progress. In particular, the limits of certain connections field are based what is documented in the January 1980 version of the TOPS-20 DECnet-20 Programmer's Guide and Operations Manual, Order Number AA-5091A-TM. This is quite old as it is based on Tops-20 version 4 and Tops-20 DECnet version 2. However, it is what I had handy and what I remember coding to, back in the day. Connection parameters are partially specified as attributes and are as follows: * ;*USERID*:/userid/ where /userid/ consists of 1 to 16 contiguous alphanumeric ASCII characters (including the hyphen, dollar sign, and underscore) identifying the source task. _Example_: ;USERID:ALIBABA * ;*PASSWORD*:/password/ where /password/ consists of 1 to a contiguous alphanumeric ASCII characters (including the hyphen, dollar sign, and underscore) required by the target task to validate the connection. _Example_: ;PASSWORD:SESAME * *;CHARGE*:/acctno/ where /acctno/ consists of 1 to 16 contiguous alphanumeric ASCII characters (including the hyphen, dollar sign, and underscore) representing the source task's account identification. _Example_: ;CHARGE:ACCT-13C * *;DATA*:/userdata/ where /userdata/ consists of 1 to 16 contiguous alphanumeric ASCII characters (including the hyphen, dollar sign, and underscore) representing user data. _Example_: ;DATA:THIS-IS-A-TEST I've since found out that I'm *wrong* about USERID, and that it actually allows up to 39 characters and have tested this. What specification has these field definitions and limits? I'd like to look at it before I go digging into Tops-20 and, of course, fixing the finger server.

10 months, 1 week

Nodename updating

by Johnny Billquist

I've seen/heard of various stories about how people update their nodename databases on their machines, hacking together scripts, and processing files. So I figured I should write a small mail about the topic (I should create a web-page with this information as well). The main/basic point is that people are creating work for themselves they really don't need. Exactly how you update your nodename database on your machine depends on what OS you are running, but there are basically prepared tools and scripts already existing for pretty much any scenario. And if you happen to have a system or need not currently covered, I can easily create one for you as well. But before going into the solutions, let me explain a bit about the source of the data here. DECnet phase IV do not have a centralized nodename system like DNS. Each node in the DECnet network has its own nodename database, and every machine can have its own name for another machine, independent of what that other machine thinks its own nodename is. However, in order to make it easier for multiple people and machines to talk, it helps if everyone have a somewhat similar database. And here is where the nodename database in MIM comes it. The nodename database that I have on MIM is not the regular DECnet nodename database. Instead I'm using DATATRIEVE to maintain a nodename database, which contains more information than just the number and name. It contains the owner, information about the software and hardware of the node, the location, and when things were updated. This database is what is queried when someone goes to http://mim.stupi.net/nodedb . And that page is generated by just making queries in DATATRIEVE. If someone have a host with DATATRIEVE on it, it is even possible to remotely access this DATATRIEVE database over DECnet (you'll only have read-only access). I have been considering possibly adding a web interface for people to possibly be able to update their own information remotely, but so far that's been a low priority thing. Maybe one day... From this DATATRIEVE database I can then generate the DECnet nodename database on MIM. This is a simple makefile actually. Whenever I run it, it will create a bunch of different files (I'll get to that in a moment), and detect if any changes have happened on the DECnet level of things. If so, it will send a mail to people who have requested it, informing them that the nodename database have been updated, and they should update the nodename database of their own machines. I hope this makes it apparent that creating various files based on the nodename database is actually very simple. This is in a sense what DATATRIEVE is good at. Creating reports is sortof what all these output files are. So - what files do I create today? Well, here is a short list: FIX.CMD - This is a script file suitable for RSX systems using CFE. However, it's sortof specially tailored for MIM, so it's not a file I would recommend anyone else to use. FIX.COM - This is a script for VMS systems using phase IV. FIX.PHV - This is a script for VMS systems using phase V. FIX.IMP - This is a script for VMS for anyone using DECdns. FIX.T20 - This is a script for TOPS-20. HECNET.PY - This is a definition file for PyDECnet. FIX.RST - This is a script for RSTS/E. NODENAMES.DAT - This is basically just the basic information is a simple output form from DATATRIEVE. It exist mostly for historical reasons, but I understand that lots of people actually take this file, and then write code to process, extract and apply information from this file. In addition, some systems can directly import nodenames from another machine on DECnet, meaning you do not have to fetch and run any scripts at all. So here is the actioins you need to do on each system in a summarized form: RSX: In RSX, there is a tool called NNC which copies definitions from another node. Copy over MIM::HECNET:NNC.BAT which is a batch file you can use which does all the work of importing the latest definitions from MIM and updating your local system. All you need to do is just "SUBMIT NNC.BAT" and you are done. VMS: With phase IV, the node copy capability is build into NCP. All you need to do is: "NCP COPY KNOWN NODES FROM MIM TO BOTH" and you are done. With phase V, copy over FIX.PHV and run it, or just directly run it from MIM like this: "@MIM::HECNET:FIX.PHV" If you run DECdns, grab FIX.IMP, and run it with whatever tool is used to manage this (sorry that I can't help more, I don't really have any experience with DECdns). TOPS-20: Grab MIM::HECNET:FIX.T20 and run in in the NCP submode of OPR (if I remember the setup correctly). RSTS/E: Grab MIM::HECNET:FIX.RST, and run it with "@FIX.RST". PyDECnet: Fetch hecnet.py by doing "wget mim.stupi.net/hecnet.py". Place that where you have configured PyDECnet to get the nodenames from, and you are good (not sure if you need to restart PyDECnet). Now. If you have some other system with some specific format you need, just let me know, and I'll create such a file as well. It's trivial for me to do this from DATATRIEVE. If you spot something wrong/bad in some file created today, let me know, and we'll fix it. If you see any errors or omissions in the information in this mail, let me know, and I'll get it corrected. I will create a web page with this information as well. If you want to get a mail whenever the nodename database is updated, just let me know and I'll add you to the list. And HECnet is slowly growing. Occasionally a completely new person/site gets connected. Occasionally people add more nodes. The online presence seems pretty constant. At the moment 19 areas are online. In area 1, currently there are 19 machines online. Looking at Paul's HECnet map (http://akdesign.dyndns.org:8080/map), there are machines online in quite different locations, covering a large part of the world. I find this cool, and even though there isn't a lot being done, it's still fun. Well. Have a nice weekend everyone, and I hope some people find this information useful. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

10 months, 4 weeks

NSP Connection Confirm Text (or, just in case I have it backwards...)

by Thomas DeBellis

I've finished the timeout functionality so that the Tops-20 finger server will only wait so long before punting the connection (don't worry, I'm very generous...) I'm now working on the logging functionality. Again, on a connection interrupt, the finger server grabs a bunch of meta-data about the connection and displays it: FNGSRV(1): Sunday, 6-October-2024 12:23:36.52412 AM-EDT From: VENTI2, User: SLOGIN, Data: STREAM* Object Type: Generic (FINGER), Segment Size: 1459 Local Flow Control: Segment, Remote Flow Control: Segment Link Quota: Input Percentage: 50, Buffers: 16, Input Goal: 0 I have three concerns here (or maybe two and a half) 1)I want to write this information to a log file, 2)Since the data is written by concurrent server sub-forks, a)Data can get overwritten b)Latency to start the finger sub-sub-forks is increased The solution is simple enough, I grab everything in the server sub-fork and ship it up to the controller through shared memory for later formatting and storage (and maybe printing). When reviewing what meta-data can be gotten, I noticed that an explicit connection confirm (MTOPR% function .MOCC) can take a pointer to an optional sixteen bytes of data. What I can't quite tell from the documentation is whether the server reads this or whether the server writes it. I find myself being unsure of the wording. 1. If the former (server sends), how does the client read it? 2. If the latter (server reads), how does the client send it? I don't see a single instance of any Tops-20 DECnet program using this, so no help there. I /think/ this is case 1., that is, the server has the option of writing it. However, I was wondering what specification this is in (maybe NSP 4?) and where, so I could read it before I look at the monitor sources to see how the client would read it. I'm assuming it would show up at the client as optional data?

11 months, 1 week

Tops-20 Finger Server Update

by Thomas DeBellis

I thought I would update everyone with where things stand with the Tops-20 finger server. Johnny and I agreed that, by default, the response to a DECnet finger query is a sequences of records, each no longer than 132 bytes (more typically 90), terminated by a line-feed. If the remote finger client or operating system can handle larger buffers, then it can connect with optional data=STREAM. Tops-20 will then dump everything in one giant record. Only the Tops-20 finger client can handle this, although I suspect maybe a VAX client might also be able to do it. I had been making steady progress until I started stress testing it, meaning having a session active on MIM::, TOMMYT::, and VENTI2:: (local), each having a finger command in ready to go and then pushing carriage return on all three as simultaneously as possible. This started generating errors on MIM:: that the "object wasn't available". What was going on was that the structure of the Tops-20 finger server really wasn't architected to have real time response for that much curiosity. It only opens a single SRV:117 (finger) object at a time, waits for a connection, reads the data, hands it off to an idle finger client fork via a pipe, and then gets a new SRV:117 object. In other words, it isn't until the finger client is started with the connection redirected to DECnet that the server is ready to accept another connection. That has what I would consider to be noticeable latency, particularly on failure. An error doesn't really matter for SMTP as it is a background task and just tries again, later. An interactive finger on the other hand, has a user sitting there waiting for a response, so it seemed to me that this wasn't really going to cut it. I took the model of the Tops-20 FAL server, which has a single control fork, looking for illness in sub-forks, all of which open their own FAL server object. The new finger controller now starts separate FNGSRV sub-server forks, creating a FINGER sub-fork for each, gets all the communications lined up, and starts all the FNGSRV sub-forks to listen for connections. This has the advantage of not clobbering the system on FNGSRV startup because resources are gotten or creating sequentially, so there isn't much for a FNGSRV sub-fork to do except wait for a connection and manage its own single FINGER sub-fork. Startup resource allocation looks like this: [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:1;RECORD-LENGTH:200 for writing] [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:1.1 for reading] [Fork FNGSRV opening SRV:117 for reading, writing] [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:2;RECORD-LENGTH:200 for writing] [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:2.2 for reading] [Fork FNGSRV opening SRV:117 for reading, writing] [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:3;RECORD-LENGTH:200 for writing] [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:3.3 for reading] [Fork FNGSRV opening SRV:117 for reading, writing] The resulting JFN's being: JFN File Mode Bytes(Size) 2 FNGSRV.EXE.330 Read, Execute 3 FINGER.EXE.116 Read, Execute 15 PIP:1;RECORD-LENGTH:200 Append 0.(8) 16 PIP:1.1 Read 0.(8) 17 SRV:117 Read, Append 0.(8) 20 PIP:2;RECORD-LENGTH:200 Append 0.(8) 21 PIP:2.2 Read 0.(8) 22 SRV:117 Read, Append 0.(8) 23 PIP:3;RECORD-LENGTH:200 Append 0.(8) 24 PIP:3.3 Read 0.(8) 25 SRV:117 Read, Append 0.(8) The resulting fork structure is: => FNGSRV (2): HALT at STARTS+13, 0.02719 Fork 12: HALT at 0, 0.00018 Fork 13: HALT at 0, 0.00016 Fork 10: HALT at 0, 0.00012 Fork 11: HALT at 0, 0.00012 Fork 6: HALT at 0, 0.00008 Fork 7: HALT at 0, 0.00007 So fork 2 is the finger server controller, forks 12, 10, and 6 are finger server sub-forks, and forks 13, 11, and 7 are the respective Tops-20 finger clients. Times are in tens of microseconds, the maximum resolution that Tops-20 supports. What can be seen is that fork creation is happening in sub-millisecond time. This was not the case in the 1980's with KL10's (I /think/), and modifications were necessary to Tops-20 and the EXEC to capture the increased resolution. I guess I'll have another version ready in about two weeks.

11 months, 2 weeks

Re: Tops-20 Finger Server Update

by Johnny Billquist

MIM can be used as an intermediate node, yes. If you send your mails to MIM::<whatever>::USER the mail will be queued up if the <whatever>:: node isn't responding right now. Johnny On 2024-10-04 09:16, jdmail(a)zeelandnet.nl wrote: > Then we need a node as a mailserver? Can that be done? > > Johan > > > Johnny Billquist schreef op 2024-10-04 02:29: > >> And just if anyone wonders - yes, that also means you cannot send mail >> to users on systems that are not currently online. >> A thing that I always found a bit annoying/irritating. >> >> Another reason why I wrote the mail handling for BQTCP to also do the >> writing and sending as two separate steps, with a queuing in between. >> >> Here is how it looks from VMS: >> >> MAIL> sen >> To: josse::bqt >> %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node JOSSE >> -SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable >> >> MAIL> sen >> To: anke::bqt >> %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node ANKE >> -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node >> >> MAIL> >> >> >> It instantly tries to connect, and if that don't work, it immediately >> fails. >> >> Johnny >> >> On 2024-10-04 01:38, Johnny Billquist wrote: >>> Sounds like a good improvement. >>> >>> However, I saw something about mail here, that you should be aware of... >>> My MAIL11 implementation is doing the queuing of mails, because that >>> is normal with SMTP, and I just carried over the same behavior to all >>> parts of the system. >>> >>> However, the "standard" MAIL11 application for RSX as well as RSTS/E >>> , along with the DECUS MAIL for RSX (and I suspect also VMS) do not >>> behave that way. If the connecting fails, the sending of mail >>> immediately fail, and it is not queued for retrying. So it would >>> appears that the mail for TOPS-20 you look at is also potentially >>> flawed, which could cause issues. >>> >>> Of course, in that case, you'd normally have a human sitting in front >>> of the terminal, who would then try again... >>> >>> Johnny >>> >>> On 2024-10-04 00:05, Thomas DeBellis wrote: >>>> I thought I would update everyone with where things stand with the >>>> Tops-20 finger server. >>>> >>>> Johnny and I agreed that, by default, the response to a DECnet >>>> finger query is a sequences of records, each no longer than 132 >>>> bytes (more typically 90), terminated by a line-feed. Ifthe >>>> remote finger client or operating system can handle larger buffers, >>>> then it can connect with optional data=STREAM. Tops-20 will then >>>> dump everything in one giant record. Only the Tops-20 finger client >>>> can handle this, although I suspect maybe a VAX client might also be >>>> able to do it. >>>> >>>> I had been making steady progress until I started stress testing it, >>>> meaning having a session active on MIM::, TOMMYT::, and VENTI2:: >>>> (local), each having a finger command in ready to go and then >>>> pushing carriage return on all three as simultaneously as possible. >>>> >>>> This started generating errors on MIM:: that the "object wasn't >>>> available". What was going on was that the structure of the Tops-20 >>>> finger server really wasn't architected to have real time response >>>> for that much curiosity. It only opens a single SRV:117 (finger) >>>> object at a time, waits for a connection, reads the data, hands it >>>> off to an idle finger client fork via a pipe, and then gets a new >>>> SRV:117 object. >>>> >>>> In other words, it isn't until the finger client is started with the >>>> connection redirected to DECnet that the server is ready to accept >>>> another connection. That has what I would consider to be noticeable >>>> latency, particularly on failure. An error doesn'treally matter >>>> for SMTP as it is a background task and just tries again, later. An >>>> interactive finger on the other hand, has a user sitting there >>>> waiting for a response, so it seemed to me that this wasn't really >>>> going to cutit. >>>> >>>> I took the model of the Tops-20 FAL server, which has a single >>>> control fork, looking for illness in sub-forks, all of which open >>>> their own FAL server object. The new finger controller now starts >>>> separate FNGSRV sub-server forks, creating a FINGER sub-fork for >>>> each, gets all the communications lined up, and starts all the >>>> FNGSRV sub-forks to listen for connections. >>>> >>>> This has the advantage of not clobbering the system on FNGSRV >>>> startup because resources are gotten or creating sequentially, so >>>> there isn't much for a FNGSRV sub-fork to do except wait for a >>>> connection and manage its own single FINGER sub-fork. >>>> >>>> Startup resource allocation looks like this: >>>> >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:1;RECORD-LENGTH:200 for writing] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:1.1 for reading] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening SRV:117 for reading, writing] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:2;RECORD-LENGTH:200 for writing] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:2.2 for reading] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening SRV:117 for reading, writing] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:3;RECORD-LENGTH:200 for writing] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening PIP:3.3 for reading] >>>> [Fork FNGSRV opening SRV:117 for reading, writing] >>>> >>>> The resulting JFN's being: >>>> >>>> JFN File Mode Bytes(Size) >>>> >>>> 2 FNGSRV.EXE.330 Read, Execute >>>> 3 FINGER.EXE.116 Read, Execute >>>> 15 PIP:1;RECORD-LENGTH:200 Append 0.(8) >>>> 16 PIP:1.1 Read 0.(8) >>>> 17 SRV:117 Read, Append 0.(8) >>>> 20 PIP:2;RECORD-LENGTH:200 Append 0.(8) >>>> 21 PIP:2.2 Read 0.(8) >>>> 22 SRV:117 Read, Append 0.(8) >>>> 23 PIP:3;RECORD-LENGTH:200 Append 0.(8) >>>> 24 PIP:3.3 Read 0.(8) >>>> 25 SRV:117 Read, Append 0.(8) >>>> >>>> The resulting fork structure is: >>>> >>>> => FNGSRV (2): HALT at STARTS+13, 0.02719 >>>> Fork 12:HALT at 0, 0.00018 >>>> Fork 13: HALT at 0, 0.00016 >>>> Fork 10:HALT at 0, 0.00012 >>>> Fork 11: HALT at 0, 0.00012 >>>> Fork 6: HALT at 0, 0.00008 >>>> Fork 7: HALT at 0, 0.00007 >>>> >>>> So fork 2 is the finger server controller, forks 12, 10, and 6 are >>>> finger server sub-forks, and forks 13, 11, and 7 are the respective >>>> Tops-20 finger clients. Times are in tens of microseconds, the >>>> maximum resolution that Tops-20 supports. What can be seen is that >>>> fork creation is happening in sub-millisecond time. This was notthe >>>> case in the 1980's with KL10's (I /think/), and modifications were >>>> necessary to Tops-20 and the EXEC to capture the increased resolution. >>>> >>>> I guess I'll have another version ready in about two weeks. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se >>>> <mailto:hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se >>>> <mailto:hecnet-leave@lists.dfupdate.se> -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 months, 2 weeks

DECnet Object Numbers (Again!)

by Thomas DeBellis

Some time ago, I asked about a list of DECnet generic objects and what they meant. I remember seeing a response and now I can't find it or what I thought I saved as a file. Could somebody send me that again? For now, all I have is what SYSDPY shows. This is an annotated list (note that numbers are octal unless otherwise specified: _Object#_ _Name_ _Comment_ 0 TASK 1 FAL1 2 URDS Unit Record Device Service (DN200) 3 ATS 4 CTS 5 TCL1 6 OSI 7 NRM 10 3270 3270 Terminal 11 2780 2780 Remote Job Entry protocol 12 3790 13 TPS 14 DIBOL 15 T20TRM Tops-20/Tops-10/Ultrix Network Remote Terminal (NRT) 16 T20RSP 17 TCL 20 TLK 21 FAL File Access Listener 22 RTL 23 NCU NICE? 24 NETCPY 25 ONCTH 26 MAIL How different from MAIL11? 27 NVT 30 TCON 31 LOOP Loopback Testing 32 EVENT DECnet Event Reporting 33 MAIL11 VAX mail? 34 FTS File Transfer Service 35 PHONE Phone 36 DDMF 37 X25GAT X.25 gateway 40 UETP User Environment Test Package 41 VXMAIL 42 X29SRV 43 RDS 44 X25HST X.25 Host 45 SNAGAT SNA Gateway 46 SNARJE SNA Remote Job Entry 47 SNAGIS 50 MTSS 51 ELF 52 CTERM Control Terminal 53 DNSTA 54 DNSUL 55 DHCF ^D47 POSI Remote OPR ^D63 DTR ^D65 TOPOL ^D66 DQS Digital Queue Service (LAT?) ^D117 FINGER Personal Name service ^D123 PMR ^D201 MS

11 months, 4 weeks

Preliminary Tops-20 Finger Server

by Thomas DeBellis

I needed to take a break from finishing up the Tops-20 DECnet/SMTP code, so I finally looked into doing a Tops-20 finger server.Over the weekend, I cobbled something together.For example, on TOMMYT:: FINGER>oinky@venti2 /no-plan OINKYGuinea PigOINKY not logged in Last logout Sun 1-Sep-2024 1:40AM from TTY6 (NRT) No new mail, last read on Tue 12-Apr-2022 10:00PM The finger server is multi-forking and works by creating a group of forks, putting the finger program in each fork and changing the primary input and output to whatever connection is being served.It is general enough so that you could probably have it run any program with little tinkering. Right now, it is in debugging mode and typing a lot of diagnostic information about the link.So, for the above attempt from the client, the finger server console output was: FNGSRV: Connection from TOMMYT, User: SLOGIN, Data: Tops-20_Finger Object Type: Generic (165), Segment Size: 1459 Local Flow Control: Segment, Remote Flow Control: Segment Link Quota: Input Percentage: 50, Buffers: 16, Input Goal: 0 As can be seen, the Tops-20 finger client has been modified to send the name of the local user and optional data identifying the finger client.Probably I’ll change that to the finger version.The RFC for TCP/IP finger is (naturally) silent on what you can send over DECnet, so this doesn’t break anything.So, I can finger myself on MIM:: just fine, viz: FINGER>debellis@mim [Default directory: US00:[DEBELLIS]CLI: DCLSID: TDB Last seen Sep 16 2024 23:04:37 on RT0: from VENTI2:: Logged on 16 times. No plan. Unfortunately, it /doesn’t /work when I sign on to MIM:: and try the local finger client there, viz: $ finger -d VENTI2::OINKY [VENTI2::] $ So, no obvious failure, but no output, either. On VENTI2::, what I’m seeing appears to be a successful connection and that the finger program running in the sub-fork is opening OINKY’s finger plan and sending it back over the link, viz: [Fork FNGSRV opening SRV:117 for reading, writing] FNGSRV: Connection from MIM, Task: DEBELLIS Object Type: Generic (165), Segment Size: 558 Local Flow Control: Segment, Remote Flow Control: Message Link Quota: Input Percentage: 50, Buffers: 16, Input Goal: 0 [Fork 2 opening TOMMYT:FINGER.BIN.5 for reading thawed] [Fork 2 opening TOMMYT:<OINKY>FINGER.PLAN.4 for reading] Currently, the finger server is highly instrumented, so if it detected that something was amiss (like the finger sub-fork was flat out croaking), it would complain about it. Or it should… Finger itself is not so highly instrumented as I wanted to make the changes there as small as possible. If you have a finger client that can do DECnet connections on another platform (I’m thinking VMS or maybe RSTS) and can try it, let me know how you make out. Be aware that I did just hack this together in two and a half days, so I make no claims to any sort of stability. I'm just trying to trouble shoot at this point. —T

12 months

Area 27's new ISP

by Mark Berryman

To the neighbors of area 27: I have a new ISP which will hopefully prove better than Comcast did. My new addresses are: IPv4: 165.188.116.102 IPv6: 2601:b058:1ff:0:d48b:ea7e:93ea:b795 As always, these addresses are in DNS as decnet.theberrymans.com <http://decnet.theberrymans.com/>. I’m still making the final necessary changes on my router but everything should be up and running by the end of the day (GMT -0600). Mark Berryman

12 months

Re: Finger survey

by Terri Kennedy

I'm a bit late to the party, but I figured I'd chime in here anyway 8-} I was the maintainer of VMS Finger from V50.1.00 (when I took it over from Rand Hall) until V50.1.35 which was the last release in July 2000. Which Finger you get by default (and what it supports) on VMS depends on which TCP/IP package you have. There's no native DECnet-only Finger. I've started working on VMS Finger again, including back-porting the V50.1.35 back to VAX/VMS - VAX support was essentially frozen at V50.1.29. Idle time on VMS is a bucket full of eels - VMS kept track of idle time on physical terminals. I'm not sure if it still does. It never did it for terminal-like connections. Brian Schenkenberger wrote a loadable execu- table image, loaded at boot time, that provides idle monitoring for TT devices, as well as hooks to add monitoring of other terminal devices. A separate utility hooks into it during normal systartup_vms.com proces- sing to add monitoring to RT devices (since that device didn't exist at boot time). Although it is copyrighted by him, he allows it to be dis- tributed with VMS Finger (and it works on both VAX and Alpha). I never had an Itanium system of my own (and never desire to), so if you have one and want to run Finger on it, drop me an email and I'll send you a test kit once I have VMS Finger closer to release state. Here's an example of VMS Finger (running on a real VAX to a virtual- ized Alpha): VX4200::$ finger @server/idle/version [SERVER.DECnet] OpenVMS Finger: Version V51.1.36 of 23-Aug-2024 Unauthorized Access Strictly Prohibited SERVER DS10 616 MHz, OpenVMS V8.4-2L1, Thu, 12-Sep-2024 21:28, 4 Users, 0 Batch Uptime 19 18:55, since Sat, 24-Aug-2024 02:33, Load: 0.06 0.04 0.07 PID Username Program Term Login CPU Idle Location TT Type 0000AD16 TERRY $ NTY13: 02:55 0:00 1:19 bedroom.glaver.o VT3xx 0000AA2B TERRY Ltpad NTY14: 02:56 0:00 18:30 bedroom.glaver.o VT3xx 00008634 TERRY Ua NTY12: 16:47 0:38 1:19 portable3-wl.gla VT3xx 0000C496 TERRY $ NTY15: 14:00 0:00 2 office.glaver.or VT3xx 0000C497 TERRY Ltpad NTY16: 14:01 0:00 7:26 office.glaver.or VT3xx Some info on that display - by default, if the node being fingered looks like it could be a DECnet Phase IV node, it tries DECnet first. If you specify something that either isn't a known DECnet node or can't possibly be a DECnet node, it uses TCP/IP: VX4200::$ finger @server.glaver.org/idle/version [SERVER.GLAVER.ORG] OpenVMS Finger: Version V51.1.36 of 23-Aug-2024 Unauthorized Access Strictly Prohibited SERVER DS10 616 MHz, OpenVMS V8.4-2L1, Thu, 12-Sep-2024 21:31, 4 Users, 0 Batch Uptime 19 18:57, since Sat, 24-Aug-2024 02:33, Load: 0.07 0.07 0.07 PID Username Program Term Login CPU Idle Location TT Type 0000AD16 TERRY $ NTY13: 02:55 0:00 1:21 bedroom.glaver.o VT3xx 0000AA2B TERRY Ltpad NTY14: 02:56 0:00 18:33 bedroom.glaver.o VT3xx 00008634 TERRY Ua NTY12: 16:47 0:38 1:21 portable3-wl.gla VT3xx 0000C496 TERRY $ NTY15: 14:00 0:00 4 office.glaver.or VT3xx 0000C497 TERRY Ltpad NTY16: 14:01 0:00 7:29 office.glaver.or VT3xx VMS Finger will still try to link code for use with Joiner Associates' JNET (BITNET) networking stack if you ask for it, but it is untested for decades. If anyone is still running JNET and connected to something, drop me an email. I'm only testing as far back as VAX/VMS V7.3 right now. Eventually I'll see how far back I can go. Hopefully VMS V5.5-2 and ideally VMS V4.4. So much for VMS Finger... I'm also the creator of RSTS/E Finger. It is DECnet-only, but can be con- figured to use any DECnet node as a gateway, either to other DECnet areas or to TCP/IP hosts. Here's RSTS/E 10.1 being Fingered from VMS: SERVER::$ finger @pidp11/version [PIDP11.DECnet] RSTS/E Finger: Version V1.2-09 of 06-Sep-2024 RSTS/E Your Organization Name Here PiDP-11 PIDP11 PDP-11/70, RSTS V10.1-L, Friday, 12-Sep-1924 21:33, 9 Jobs, 63 Max. Uptime 4 07:33:52, since Monday, 8-Sep-1924 14:00 05-Sep-24 - Your message could be here! Edit FINGER$:FINGER.MSG to change it. Job Username PPN Progrm Term Login CPU ST Location TTType 1 SYSTEM 1,2 ERRCPY Det 00:00 SR - Detached - 2 SYSTEM 1,2 MAILQ Det 00:01 SR - Detached - 3 SYSTEM 1,2 OMS Det 00:03 SL - Detached - 4 SYSTEM 1,2 PBS... Det 00:06 SL - Detached - 5 SYSTEM 1,2 EVTLOG Det 00:00 SL - Detached - 6 SYSTEM 1,2 MESMAN Det 00:00 SL - Detached - 7 TERRY 20,254 DCL KB33: 14:01 00:00 ^C SERVER::[11,376] VT320 8 TERRY 20,254 DCL KB34: 02:57 00:00 ^C SERVER::[11,376] VT320 9 SYSTEM 1,2 FINSRV Det 00:00 RN - Detached - And here is RSTS/E 10.1 Fingering an Internet host: $ finger @mim.stupi.net [MIM.STUPI.NET via routing host SERVER] [SERVER.DECnet] [MIM.STUPI.NET] RSX-11M-PLUS system MIM. Fri Sep 13 03:39:27 2024. Up: 1 day, 4:44. Luser Real name Term Idle Logged in From BILLQUIST Johnny Billquist TT15: 17 12 Sep 14:53 s-5eeaac7c-74736162 RSTS/E Finger requires RSTS/E V9.6 or later, since the DECnet/E it relies on is V4.1, which itself requires RSTS/E V9.6 or later. Moving right along: I also wrote an MS-DOS Finger implementation. That isn't as useless as it sounds. If you just say "finger", you get the message "You are the only user, of course". But like RSTS/E Finger, it uses DECnet (Pathworks or whatever product name du jour that product has). The code still exists, but I don't know of any modern Microsoft Windows system that has a DECnet stack available for it. If anyone knows of a DECnet implementation that runs under Windows 10, let me know and I'll resurrect MS-DOS finger as a CLI application for Windows. I can even sign it 8-} Once I have VMS and RSTS/E Finger updated to where I want them, I'd love to have a network interoperability bake-off with as many other implementations as possible. Probably the oddest one I ran into in my testing 30+ years ago was the front-end CPU for a Cray. -- Terri Kennedy

1 year

← Newer
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
...
1558
Older →

Jump to page:

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

HECnet