HECnet

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15562 discussions

by tommytimesharing＠gmail.com

I needed to have a separate transport mechanism for testing both the Tops-10 and Tops-20 FAL, NFT and DAP implementations.? I wanted to be able to compare files to make sure I hadn't messed anything up.? I also thought that a speed comparison might perhaps be of interest, but otherwise not directly useful. I've modified K20MIT to be able to transfer files both over DECnet Network Remote Terminals and pseudo-terminals.? I did the pseudo-terminal part first so I could debug the alternate line code more easily without having any DECnet issues getting in the way.? Once I'm satisfied that Kermit will transfer over a non-physical line, I can rule out any problems I have debugging the DECnet code.? In other words, I'll know that, whatever issue I bump into, it will be reasonable to assume that it is related to NRT transport and not anything Kermit is doing. Right now, a lot of sparks have come flying out because I am taking code that is nearly 40 years old that grew up dealing with with a DH11 front end line and wrenching it into using virtual terminals.? However, earlier this evening, I had my first pseudo-terminal transfer.? The file was the ASCII text for Ralph Gorin's "Introduction to Assembler Language Programming" book. This is about 1.5 megabytes long and takes up 621 pages on disk, which I imagined would be a 'reasonable' size.?? Kermit says it clocked about 815 Kbps doing the transfer, but I really wouldn't have any idea what that number means.? A FILCOM shows that the files match to the byte, which is the important part.? Details below. ??? ?T ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kermit-20>*connect* [KERMIT-20: Loopback connection to VENTI2:: via PTY7: using TTY22:, type <CTRL-\>C to return.] Kermit-20>*set delay 15* Kermit-20>*server* Kermit Server running on DEC-20 host. Please type your escape sequence to return to your local machine. Shut down the server by typing the BYE command to KERMIT on your local machine. [KERMIT-20: Returning to local system, VENTI2::] Kermit-20>*show line* TTY for file transfer: 22 (assigned TTY line, KERMIT-20 is _LOCAL_) Handshake: None Flow-Control: XON-XOFF Parity: None Duplex: Full Speed: (Unknown) Break Simulation: Disabled TVT Binary: On TVT Negotiate: Automatic Log: (none) Kermit-20>*cwd ps:<slogin>* [Connected to TOMMYT:<SLOGIN>] Kermit-20>*send doc:tops20_ASSEMBLER_PROGRAMMING.TXT.1 (as) * Kermit-20>*statistics* Maximum number of characters in packet: 80 received; 80 sent Number of characters transmitted in 19 seconds Sent: 1711619 Overhead: 124378 Received: 138712 Overhead: 138712 Total: 1850331 Overhead: 263090 Total characters transmitted per second: 97385 Effective data rate: _835390_ bps ILDB: 0 SIN: 0 SIN Max: 0 BIN: 138712 Interpacket pause in effect: 0 sec Timeouts: 0 NAKs: 0 Kermit-20>*push* [KERMIT-20: PUSHing to new EXEC.] [POP from Exec to return.] @*vdir /since today* TOMMYT:<SLOGIN> TOPS20_ASSEMBLER_PROGRAMMING.TXT.1;P774200 621 1587241(7) 13-Nov-2021 17:29:35 SLOGIN Total of 621 pages in 1 file @*defINE f1: (AS) doc:tops20_ASSEMBLER_PROGRAMMING.TXT.0 * @*defINE f2: (AS) h:tops20_aSSEMBLER_PROGRAMMING.TXT.0* @*filcom* **tty:=f1:,f2:* _No differences encountered_ **^Z* @

3 years, 7 months

Tops-20 Anonymous FAL

by tommytimesharing＠gmail.com

As shipped, the Tops-20 FAL does not implement the idea of a default account.? So you can't use it unless you have something valid to type into the user and password fields.? I changed all that and the candidate implementation has been up on VENTI2:: for a few days to allow Bob to pull some Kermit-10 sources that I got from the Kermit project. This is tested code, yet something between maybe an alpha and beta version with debugging hooks, Etc. I noted that some have people used it, which I think is *great!* If you bump into any problems or thing something doesn't work right, please drop me a note.? Recall that Tops-20 DAP does not implement RENAME (which I don't allow in anonymous, anyway) If you want the Kermit-10 sources, then you want to use the K10MIT: system logical, viz: VENTI2::K10MIT:*.* will show you the goodies.

3 years, 7 months

DECnet/Python

by fsword007＠gmail.com

Folks, I successfully installed DECnet/Python on Ubuntu 21.10 system and was successfully connected to HECnet. I have a few questions about DECnet/Python. I choose that because it support virtual circuits like Multinet over TCP, etc.. I can't find any apps (programs) to support DECnet/Python like login, set host, dir, etc. Only DECnet for Linux has programs. Does DECnet for Raspberry Pi work with Ubuntu 21.10 (Linux 5.13 for x86)? Tim

3 years, 7 months

Is this the most up to date version of DECnet OS numbers?

by tommytimesharing＠gmail.com

Since its inception, Kermit-20 (one the first three Kermit implementations) has had the 'limitation' that it will only talk to a remote Kermit via a physical terminal line (I.E., something like TTY6:).? It doesn't do network terminals in part because it has no code to handle the out-of-band or meta-data that one finds on TVT's (like IAC's) or CTERM's. This doesn't exist for the early NRT terminals which were implemented for Tops-10 and Tops-20.? Once you've read the initial configuration message and decided what to do, you basically never have to bother with meta-data.? Because I'm trying to look at an NFT issue between Tops-10 and Tops-20, I needed another transport mechanism and modifying Kermit-20 to do DECnet 36 NRT's seemed like an easy hack.? Since Tops-10 Kermit isn't making an outgoing connection, it is none the wiser. Thus far, it has been fairly straightforward.? Right now I'm just catching the few cases where certain operations don't make sense or otherwise wouldn't work (like setting the terminal speed). Another thing I'd like to prevent is Kermit-20 bothering non-36 bit systems.? This is easily enough done by checking some 'magic' bits in the initial configuration message and restricting by OS type.? This raises two questions: First, is the list below complete?? What about Ultrix and ... what else? ?1??? RSTS ?2??? RT-11 ?3??? RSTS/E ?4??? RSX-11S ?5??? RSX-11M ?6??? RSX-11D ?7??? IAS ?8??? VMS ?9??? TOPS-20 10??? TOPS-10 11??? RTS-8 12??? OS-8 13??? RSX-11M+ 14??? MCB Second, the configuration isn't well documented.? Actually, I'm not sure if it's documented, period.? All I have is are some notes that Johnny wrote up in the process of reverse-engineering it and very kindly gave me.? They are certainly fine for this particular implementation, but I was just wondering what else there might be. Plenty for LAT and CTERM, but I don't think I've stumbled over NRT.

3 years, 7 months

TOPS-10 D-Day, DECnet failure on November 9th is less than six days away --> 10-nov-2021

by R.Voorhorst＠swabhawat.com

L.S. Decnet still running here without bugs on 5 tops10 and one 4 Tops20 of which 1 is a Panda and 3 are even Tops20 V4.1. So have to check the code if repairs were already in place a long time ago ... Best regards, Reindert -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Paul Koning Sent: Monday, 08 November, 2021 15:23 To: hecnet at update.uu.se Subject: Re: [HECnet] TOPS-10 D-Day, DECnet failure on November 9th is less than six days away > On Nov 7, 2021, at 7:03 PM, Thomas DeBellis <tommytimesharing at gmail.com> wrote: > > Ugh, the larger ones all made a racket, even an 11/05 in a rack. An 11/40 really did, particularly did because you had sit close to it to use the GT40. I don't remember an 8/E being that bad. > > But 10's and 20's? Ouch. The machine room at Marlboro that I used had a pile of KL's, KI's and a KA in it. 2116, 2012, 2136, 1031 come to mind, but there had to be three times that list. What a racket. One of the nice features of CDC mainframes (the 60 bit machines) is that they were rather quiet. That's because the mainframe was liquid cooled, with water cooling of the refrigeration machinery. Only external boxes like the console and outboard peripheral controllers had cooling fans. The machines I worked on had the disk drives in another room (one floor down) which put all that noise away from the operators. Being able to talk to your colleagues without shouting was quite nice. paul

3 years, 7 months

"IP protocols on DECnet'

by roll＠stupi.com

In the "old days" we did SMTP over DECnet, has anyone considered doing Telnet, FTP, HTTP etc over DECnet transport? -P

3 years, 7 months

TOPS-10 D-Day, DECnet failure on November 9th is less than six days away

by tommytimesharing＠gmail.com

I have been working with Bob recently to bring the fix up on VENTI:: to prevent the imminent COM911 BUGHLT. We've both been hampered by some domestic duties and what I refuse to call "forgetfulness" in the particulars of generating a Tops-10 monitor.? Neither one of us has done it in ...'awhile'... It turns out that a MONGEN is unnecessary because the system configuration doesn't need to change.? You do need to rebuild TOPS10.REL, however.? Fortunately, with a small hack, the fix can be directly patched the monitor with FILDDT. You want to modify two instructions at NMXTIM+13 from: NMXTIM+12/?? IDIV T3,TICSEC *NMXTIM+13/?? SKIPL T2** **NMXTIM+14/?? TDNE T1,COMCAW+10* NMXTIM+15/?? XCT COM911 ?To: NMXTIM+12/?? IDIV T3,TICSEC *NMXTIM+13/?? MOVMS T2****NMXTIM+14/?? TDZA T1,COMCAW+10* NMXTIM+15/?? XCT COM911 So doing that will keep you from crashing.? You can probably even deposit them right into the running monitor, if you're careful enough (one hesitates to say, 'toggle'...)

3 years, 7 months

Area 22 online again

by mark.darvill＠mac.com

After an extended period moving systems from one end of my house to the other, I have got Area 22 back online again today. I have updated the tunnels to point to all of the definitions in Brian's latest router config update. Are there any others that I should be peering to? Now HECnet is back up and running I will start adding some some of my real and simulated machines. 73, Mark

3 years, 7 months

DECnet/Python --> Tops20 V4.1

by R.Voorhorst＠swabhawat.com

@Thomas & @Paul Paul helped me in the past with some Rsts Decnet-III stuff and we got that working with Dmc/Dmr, so we got a functioning phase-III router from that and at a point I also introduced the Tops20 V4.1 Decnet problems; I think he got that Simh image from me for testing, so if one is interested I can provide a Tops20 V4.1 Decnet image. Problem there was, that it only communicates with other Tops20 4.1 Decnet but notcontrary to expectations with phase-III. This was not supposed to be a working setup as the KS10 was meant to connect with the Kmc/Dup line to a DN20/200 Pdp11 based network box to join Decnet. These boxes ran Decnet-III on a Rsx11M V3.1 platform and the software load image was generated and built on Tops20 (or Tops10 probably as well) but should be booted from a KL10 based system. As this software was from link libraries, source code was missing. Simh Pdp11 could be configured to run the network parallel ANF10 without problems, but with some tricks activating the built Decnet image ? after all it is RSX11S bootable within the Rsx11M 3.1 environment - on a suitable configured Simh Pdp11 sim, it stops somewhere in the Decnet initialization phase. Too difficult to debug that at the time. So Tops20 V4.1 Decnet is quite useless as it looks more than Phase-II with enhancements that stops it working with proper phase-III. It is still a problem to be solved sometime? Best regards, Reindert From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Thomas DeBellis Sent: Saturday, 06 November, 2021 01:10 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECnet/Python Boy, now that is a pal! So where would somebody like me be able to get that? The 4.1 Galaxy has some very interesting things in MOUNTR that were sadly removed that I would like to put in at some point in order to be able to set super-domestic on a per-structure basis. super-domestic can make your life easier because you have less directory and user numbers overall to deal with. However, the other side of that coin is that you have less of them total. If you have a large number of directories, users and structures, you run out of number, maybe, maybe (it's an 18 bit field) There's also the case of a restored structure with it's own numbers that might clash with super-domestic. That might happen if you grab a lot of DECUS stuff (although there is brokeness there, too) Still for, with automated number management, much of the headache (and hence reason) for super-domestic goes away and I'd rather have the extra granularity. It really depends on how you're going to use the system and how 'Unixy' you want certain things to work. So I'd rather shut it off for my purposes, but I sure wouldn't want it not to be available. _____ On 11/4/21 7:30 PM, Paul Koning wrote: A kind soul sent me a TOPS-20 V4.1 SIMH disk a while ago with basic information, and that's what I use for my Phase II testing. It has in its <DECNET> directory some sources: NETCON bits, NFT, DAP. I also realized there's a DECnet-20 V2 (Phase II) user manual on Bitsavers, which combines programming and management documentation. It mentions that Phase II NCP has a NICE protocol just like the later versions, except that it doesn't seems to be compatible. At least my NICE listener doesn't like what it hears. Something else to play with at some point. paul On Nov 4, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Thomas DeBellis <tommytimesharing at gmail.com <mailto:tommytimesharing at gmail.com> > wrote: Where did you get that NETCON from? I don't have it. Or is a Tops-10 NETCON? (which I wouldn't have, either) _____ On 11/4/21 3:22 PM, Paul Koning wrote: I found the code, it's in NETCON (specifically, NCP). So now all I have to do is reverse engineer it. That's going to be interesting because I haven't looked at Macro-10 in 45 years, and even back then I didn't really know it well at all. paul _____ On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Paul Koning <mailto:paulkoning at comcast.net> <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote: I'm guessing it has to do with learning the shape of the Phase II network. That's an entirely different problem than Phase III and later. The connect is by name, so object 0, object name TOPOL. And I don't have anything to answer that request so I have no trace. I suppose I could build a dummy responder just to see what question is asked. If indeed it's Phase II topology related, it would make sense for the host not to have that server, and of course it would also go away in Phase III. The host requests, but does not offer, "intercept" which is node name based routing in Phase II that was implemented only in a few places. Somewhere I saw that it exists only to get past the front end (on larger machines) which was handled as a separate node so it counts as a network hop. Without intercept, Phase II only goes a single hop. I found the code, it's in NETCON (specifically, NCP). So now all I have to do is reverse engineer it. That's going to be interesting because I haven't looked at Macro-10 in 45 years, and even back then I didn't really know it well at all. paul _____ On Oct 27, 2021, at 9:32 PM, Thomas DeBellis <mailto:tommytimesharing at gmail.com> <tommytimesharing at gmail.com> wrote: TOPOL? Hmm... No, I hadn't heard of that, either. It sounds almost familiar, but I don't know why Tops-20 would be asking for it because it doesn't appear to be serving it, viz:...

3 years, 7 months

DEC 4000/500 from years ago

by Mark＠Misty.com

Hi, Around 2007 I gave away my pair of 4000/500A systems, I believe to Brian Hechinger. They were taking up way too much space in the dining room, and that I just wasn't that interested in putting the time and money into sustaining the pair. I also really wanted SCSI storage, but Q-BUS SCSI controllers were way out of my financial reach at the time. Since then, circumstances have changed, and with renewed interest, I acquired a BA23 Q-BUS MicroVAX, and eventually a Q-BUS SCSI controller, but nothing that came close to those 4000/500As. Some years later, I believe Brian moved, and offered these up again on one of these lists, or maybe CCTALK, but I missed that posting until too late, and lost track of who ended up with those. If these are in use, I wish whoever has them the best, and am extremely glad at least they did not end up scrapped; I did my part towards that. However, if whoever has them is no longer using them, I am here and interested in whether one or both might be available. I hope this is an appropriate posting, and it is not misunderstood by those involved. Mark -- Mark G. Thomas <Mark at Misty.com>, KC3DRE

3 years, 8 months

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