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Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Bob Armstrong wrote: Johnny wrote: I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. But even tunneling DDCMP as you described still requires another machine to run the "freeware"? BTW, this is essentially what Multinet does, although it's not actually using DDCMP of course, but it does emulate a point-to-point connection (i.e. a DECnet line and circuit) that uses the Internet for the actual transport. Still, if you happen to have, say, a PDP-11 in the garage, there's still no way to put that -11 on HECnet without another machine to serve as an intermediary. For many people this isn't an issue because they already have a suitable machine anyway, but for those who just want to put one machine on HECnet it's a problem. Correct. However, DDCMP, as well as tunneling of it, is something you can probably accomplish using any system you can find. All you need is a plain serial port capable of running at rather slow speeds (I can't find a way of going above 9600 bps using RSX atleast, even if the hardware supports that.) Tunneling ethernet is far more complicated. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Johnny

16 years, 11 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

At 7:23 PM +0200 6/24/08, Johnny Billquist wrote: NetBSD is "preferred" by me personally, but the bridge program is mostly running on Linux boxes I think. :-) I have it running on both Linux and NetBSD myself, and others have run it on OpenBSD, and I think FreeBSD as well. It can probably be made to run on I'm running on OpenBSD. I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. I could probably set something like that up again, if needed. Don't know if anything but RSX and VMS supported DECnet over asynch serial lines, though. According to Megan DECnet for RT-11 only runs over serial lines, of course as no one has been able to come up with a copy... I've also talking a bit with John Wilson (who writes E11) about possibly adding the bridging code directly in E11, so that you'd have an ethernet interface which would go directly out on the net. That's not working yet, but if people are interested, I'm sure John could cook that up fast enough. That would likely be of interest to several people, I can't help but think it would at least increase the number part time nodes on HECnet. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bob＠jfcl.com

Johnny wrote: I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. But even tunneling DDCMP as you described still requires another machine to run the "freeware"? BTW, this is essentially what Multinet does, although it's not actually using DDCMP of course, but it does emulate a point-to-point connection (i.e. a DECnet line and circuit) that uses the Internet for the actual transport. Still, if you happen to have, say, a PDP-11 in the garage, there's still no way to put that -11 on HECnet without another machine to serve as an intermediary. For many people this isn't an issue because they already have a suitable machine anyway, but for those who just want to put one machine on HECnet it's a problem. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Bob

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Bob Armstrong wrote: Johnny wrote: You also need to figure out where to connect to, "physically". That is, which remote machine will you talk to, and using which protocol. There are several options. Most people either use a VMS machine as a router, and go through an IP-tunneled connection handled by VMS, or they use my bridge program, which acts just like any bridge. Right - you either need a VAX or Alpha running OpenVMS and the Multinet TCP/IP package (both of which have free hobbyist licenses), OR you need a Unix host running Johnny's bridge program. I believe in the latter case NetBSD is preferred, but Johnny can correct me if that's wrong. NetBSD is "preferred" by me personally, but the bridge program is mostly running on Linux boxes I think. :-) I have it running on both Linux and NetBSD myself, and others have run it on OpenBSD, and I think FreeBSD as well. It can probably be made to run on another bunch of Unix-like systems with little effort. There are a few requirements on the hardware though. The ethernet controller must allow you to send packets with a "fake" source MAC address. Also, the Unix system must have bpf. It's unfortunate, but a VAX/Alpha running OpenVMS is the only thing you can connect directly to HECnet. For anything else you end up needing an intermediary to serve as a DECnet router - either an OpenVMS machine or a NetBSD machine, as described above. I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. I could probably set something like that up again, if needed. Don't know if anything but RSX and VMS supported DECnet over asynch serial lines, though. It's possible that the Linux DECnet implementation supports tunneling over TCP/IP that's compatible with Multinet, but I can't remember. Christine would know. If that's true, then it would be a third option. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I've also talking a bit with John Wilson (who writes E11) about possibly adding the bridging code directly in E11, so that you'd have an ethernet interface which would go directly out on the net. That's not working yet, but if people are interested, I'm sure John could cook that up fast enough. Johnny

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bob＠jfcl.com

Johnny wrote: You also need to figure out where to connect to, "physically". That is, which remote machine will you talk to, and using which protocol. There are several options. Most people either use a VMS machine as a router, and go through an IP-tunneled connection handled by VMS, or they use my bridge program, which acts just like any bridge. Right - you either need a VAX or Alpha running OpenVMS and the Multinet TCP/IP package (both of which have free hobbyist licenses), OR you need a Unix host running Johnny's bridge program. I believe in the latter case NetBSD is preferred, but Johnny can correct me if that's wrong. It's unfortunate, but a VAX/Alpha running OpenVMS is the only thing you can connect directly to HECnet. For anything else you end up needing an intermediary to serve as a DECnet router - either an OpenVMS machine or a NetBSD machine, as described above. It's possible that the Linux DECnet implementation supports tunneling over TCP/IP that's compatible with Multinet, but I can't remember. Christine would know. If that's true, then it would be a third option. Bob

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Zane H. Healy wrote: I'm not sure how much traffic gets routed, but I've got a decent amount of bandwidth available as well. I've never really noticed any real hit on my bandwidth. So how do I get started with the node numbers and what-not? Hopefully Johnny will show up sometime soon, he is the central registry for such things. You need to figure out if you just need a node number or two, or an area. Most people don't need an area, and in order to have an area, you need an area router. I suspect most of us have our own areas for historical reasons (i.e. one of our systems was originally in such and such area). Right. If anyone wants an area, and have an area router, just say so. There are still plenty of unallocated areas, and I don't really see it as likely that we'll run out of them. Johnny

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Mike Shields wrote: Well, since the long period of nothing has been broken, I guess I'll take the opportunity to ride along on the burst. I've got a KLH10 TOPS-20 system up on my local network, (Panda distribution) and have several machines that could serve as a router. Fun. Not that many T20 machines on the net so far. Bring 'em on! :-) I'm not sure how much traffic gets routed, but I've got a decent amount of bandwidth available as well. As an endnode, you don't see that much traffic. Mostly the hello broadcasts that occur regularly. So how do I get started with the node numbers and what-not? Just talk to me and tell me what you want/need. In short you need to allocate a node number. For that you first need to figure out in which area you'll live, and then talk with the person responsible for that area. If nothing else, I can put you in area 1, which I handle. A node name is nice to allocate globally, although not technically required. I try to keep an up-to-date list here. You also need to figure out where to connect to, "physically". That is, which remote machine will you talk to, and using which protocol. There are several options. Most people either use a VMS machine as a router, and go through an IP-tunneled connection handled by VMS, or they use my bridge program, which acts just like any bridge. Johnny

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Gregg Levine wrote: Hello! Is it me, or is this list suddenly acting like a night out in the country? (Hint, I hear crickets, and I've not seen a post in months.) As others noted, this list is bursty. :-) Okay now the Question: How would I go about configuring a PDP-11 (SimH or E11) to talk to the HECNET? And which OS is prefrered? The answer to your first question depends on the answer to the second one, I'd say. :-) But ethernet is a good start, along with a copy of my bridge program running on some machine, unless you also have some VMS system running as a router on the same ethernet segment. I do not have a router or Cisco designed gizmo who's stable enough to support the protocols that we are discussing here, however. That leaves you just with my bridge program then, I guess. Johnny

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I'm not sure how much traffic gets routed, but I've got a decent amount of bandwidth available as well. I've never really noticed any real hit on my bandwidth. So how do I get started with the node numbers and what-not? Hopefully Johnny will show up sometime soon, he is the central registry for such things. You need to figure out if you just need a node number or two, or an area. Most people don't need an area, and in order to have an area, you need an area router. I suspect most of us have our own areas for historical reasons (i.e. one of our systems was originally in such and such area). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

16 years, 12 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: At 7:54 PM -0400 6/23/08, Gregg Levine wrote: Hello! Is it me, or is this list suddenly acting like a night out in the country? (Hint, I hear crickets, and I've not seen a post in months.) This list tends to be long periods of nothing along with short bursts of traffic. Okay now the Question: How would I go about configuring a PDP-11 (SimH or E11) to talk to the HECNET? And which OS is prefrered? Personally I'd look at E11, but then it has been so long since I played seriously with SIMH that the network support had just been added, and I believe it works pretty good now. SIMH has the advantage of no limitations, but is likely to be the best bet, and it is faster. As for an OS, I'd prefer to see you running RSTS/E, but I don't think that is what you mean! :^) If I were to be serious for a second, I'd have to recommend RSX-11M or RSX-11M+, as their DECnet implementations are considerably less persnickety. Additionally I don't think many people have managed to get DECnet/E running under either E11 or SIMH. But then I had a hard enough time getting it running on real hardware. I do not have a router or Cisco designed gizmo who's stable enough to support the protocols that we are discussing here, however. I'm guessing any old Pentium class would work here. A 486 might not be able to push the data through Johnny's bridge fast enough. I'm not sure that anyone is currently running a Cisco router you could connect to anyway. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | Hello! I was seriously considering Ultrix, it seems that the collection roosting on the TUHS site contains DECNET objects, so that's one. And then the DEC OS you suggested. As for a system, that's TBA. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature was once found posting rude messages in English in the Moscow subway."

16 years, 12 months

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