HECnet

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15597 discussions

DEC fan meeting in Lake District, anyone from HECnet want to speak?

by sampsa＠mac.com

Ladies, Gentlemen, I've been talking to a Mr Mark Williams today about some VMS related stuff, wonderfully helpful chap etc etc. Anyway, he asked me to relay this message to our mailing list in case we were interested in attending or even speaking at this "old DEC kit" gathering. Might I also suggest that we add Mr Williams to this mailing list as he's likely to be a great asset to HECnet. Sampsa Begin forwarded message: From: Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> While I've got your attention - I'm organising a meeting later in the year that will focus on old DEC kit - HECNET would definitely be of interest - do you know of anyone in the HECNET community who I might approach about giving a short talk? It'll be autumn this year (when I get my finger out and book a venue!) up here in the Lake District. Sounds like you might be interested in this sort of thing - do you want me to add you to the distribution list?

17 years, 1 month

DECnet-10

by gerry77＠mail.com

Hello all, does anyone here has any experience running a TOPS-10 host with DECnet-10? More than a year ago, we connected to our DECnet a KLH10 emulator running TOPS-10 and its DECnet-10 software, but we had to shut it down just after some days because it was causing us many troubles and had serious usability issues. Now we would like to try again, so I'm writing here looking for some ideas. We would prefer to use KLH10 instead of SIMH because of its quite interesting multiprocess implementation which scales way better on the hosting system. Moreover, the KLH10 emulator uses a very effective idling mechanism, by means of a special device which has to be accessed by the guest OS in its idle loop. Activation of both this idle mechanism (patching CLOCK1.MAC) and DECnet-10 requires a monitor rebuild, which should be almost easy because we have all the sources and instructions, but which is actually not so straight-forward. By reading manuals and Usenet posts, we found that we'd have to use the MONGEN procedure to rebuild the monitor. So we patched CLOCK1.MAC and answered all the relevant MONGEN questions about DECnet, but the final result was not good. (Probably we ran NETGEN too, but at the moment we are not sure about this). DECnet did start and we were able to make connections to and from the TOPS-10 host, but other parts of the system (e.g. BATCON) stopped working and, most of all, there was absolutely no idling of the KLH10 host CPU. We discovered that probably MONGEN only compiles some macro configuration files and then relinks the monitor using a prebuilt TOPS10.REL, made up from many macro files, including CLOCK1.MAC. So we need to entirely rebuild TOPS10.REL from sources, but we do not know ho to do that. The Software Installation Guide directs to Appendix B where it is suggested that, for more information about building the monitor library file (i.e. TOPS10.REL), we should read the batch control file COMPIL.CTL. Unfortunately COMPIL.CTL does NOT contain any comment or explanation. We think it is intended for somebody with a previous somewhat deep knowledge about such tasks, which we do not actually have. we are using a quite standard installation so common defaults should be fine, but there are anyway lots of totally obscure files to customize (BUILDS.MIC, BUILDS.PTH, GEN.MIC, ...). Any help, suggestion or pointer would be much appreciated! G. (http://decnet.ipv7.net)

17 years, 1 month

What use are *you* making of HECnet?

by sampsa＠mac.com

For anyone who might be interested: I've done a tiny modification to the TETRIS game on CHIMPY, the keys are now more sensible if you don't like using a numeric keypad (I'm mostly on my Macbook Pro so I don't). So If you're bored and fancy a game of tetris, log in to CHIMPY as TETRIS and have at it. I might even send out some type of award to the high scorer of the year should there be significant take up :) Sampsa On 2 Mar 2009, at 08:12, Sampsa Laine wrote: Done. Sampsa On 2 Mar 2009, at 01:17, Steve Davidson wrote: Sampsa, Could you update the DECnet database using MIM:: please. Area 19 appears to be unknown to your system. Thanks. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Sampsa Laine Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 19:09 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] What use are *you* making of HECnet? Ok, so I just realised CHIMPY is in fact acting as a gateway into and out of HECnet already :) To send mail in: Address the message to "<HECNET NODE>:: <USER>"@chimpymail.sampsa.com To send mail out Address the message to CHIMPY::SMTP%"<Internet email address>" Sampsa On 1 Mar 2009, at 23:53, Peter Lothberg wrote: If I remember right, it was/is Robert Armstrong who had that up and running. LEGATO used to relay email between HECnet (using MAIL11) and the Internet/SMTP, but I quit doing that last fall when I switched registrars. There's no reason I couldn't - I just never bothered to set up the necessary domain name and mail routing again. It was pretty much never used, even by me - after all, everyone with a HECnet connection already has an Internet connection. Bob We could talk "SMTP" over DECnet..... -P

17 years, 1 month

How do you connect to HECnet?

by marc＠bluevine.net

My system (DUSTY) is a SIMH VAX running on Linux (ubuntu JeOS) under an ESXi hypervisor. I've given the Linux system two NICs (that's easy in ESXi), one for Linux, and one dedicated to the VAX. For my purposes, I also have the VAX's interface set up on a VLAN to move it onto a separate virtual network for my "trailing edge" systems. The VAX speaks DECnet-over-MultiNet to LEGATO. Yes, the Multinet link provides a second connection into HECnet, Christine and I have been the sites routing between the two types of connections. There were also one or two people using Cisco router links as well, but I don't know if anyone still has those links up. Do we need any additional such routing points? Now that I have an ESXi system, it's trivial for me to add another small virtual machine that could act as such a bridge. --Marc

17 years, 1 month

How do you connect to HECnet?

by jeep＠scshome.net

My NetBSD machine runs the two NIC's so that I *can* keep DECnet apart from IP. I have dedicated LAN's for each protocol here. Overkill??? Absolutely! It allows me to duplicate the multiple environments that I may encounter during the course of things. It sure does make it easier when debugging a network problem/outage. The VAXen have only one NIC and as such run only DECnet (and of course SCS traffic). IP is relegated to other machines/hardware/paths. It does take more hardware but in the end it is VERY clean. The Alpha's, on the other hand, have multiple NIC's - one for IP, one for DECnet, and one other. -Steve From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Sampsa Laine Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 09:16 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] How do you connect to HECnet? Weirdly enough, I have no problem with running the bridge and SIMH on the same machine - caveat: I am running on OS X. At the moment, I have the following: - Gorilla (OS X 10.4.something) running the bridge on interface 0 - GORVAX (SIMH, OpenVMS 7.3, MULTINET) running on interface 0, acting as a router between the bridge and a MULTINET tunnel to the outside - CHIMPY (running VMS 8.3, TCP/IP services), acting as an end node on the bridged network So on the main host, there's only one interface and it all works (all = DECNET, I can't get IP traffic from Gorilla to GORVAX). Sampsa On 2 Mar 2009, at 09:50, Angela Kahealani wrote: On Sunday, 2009-03-01 21:50:24 Johnny Billquist wrote: The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you. So, if you try to run in one machine, with hardware that can't see its own packets, then you need 3 interfaces, 1: To talk TCP/IP / UDP for main interface plus UDP side of bridge 2: DECnet side of bridge 3: DECnet speaking software or a machine with only one interface running the bridge program, and a machine with two interfaces, one for TCP/IP/UDP and one DECnet. Or have I still misunderstood? Aloha, Angela -- "(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com

17 years, 1 month

How do you connect to HECnet?

by sampsa＠mac.com

Weirdly enough, I have no problem with running the bridge and SIMH on the same machine - caveat: I am running on OS X. At the moment, I have the following: - Gorilla (OS X 10.4.something) running the bridge on interface 0 - GORVAX (SIMH, OpenVMS 7.3, MULTINET) running on interface 0, acting as a router between the bridge and a MULTINET tunnel to the outside - CHIMPY (running VMS 8.3, TCP/IP services), acting as an end node on the bridged network So on the main host, there's only one interface and it all works (all = DECNET, I can't get IP traffic from Gorilla to GORVAX). Sampsa On 2 Mar 2009, at 09:50, Angela Kahealani wrote: On Sunday, 2009-03-01 21:50:24 Johnny Billquist wrote: The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you. So, if you try to run in one machine, with hardware that can't see its own packets, then you need 3 interfaces, 1: To talk TCP/IP / UDP for main interface plus UDP side of bridge 2: DECnet side of bridge 3: DECnet speaking software or a machine with only one interface running the bridge program, and a machine with two interfaces, one for TCP/IP/UDP and one DECnet. Or have I still misunderstood? Aloha, Angela -- "(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com

17 years, 1 month

How do you connect to HECnet?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On Sunday, 2009-03-01 21:50:24 Johnny Billquist wrote: The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you. So, if you try to run in one machine, with hardware that can't see its own packets, then you need 3 interfaces, 1: To talk TCP/IP / UDP for main interface plus UDP side of bridge 2: DECnet side of bridge 3: DECnet speaking software or a machine with only one interface running the bridge program, and a machine with two interfaces, one for TCP/IP/UDP and one DECnet. Or have I still misunderstood? You're making things over-complex. I can't ever imagine a scenario in which you need more than two interfaces. In your first example above, 1 and 2 can be on the same interface with no problems. The only time you even need more than one interface is if the machine running the bridge program is itself also a DECnet node, in which case the machines own DECnet traffic can't be on the same interface as the bridge is capturing DECnet traffic. All other stuff can be shared on any of the interfaces. In short. bridge can coexist with any TCP/IP traffic. DECnet can coexist with any TCP/IP traffic. bridge and DECnet can't coexist. And in all of these sentences I'm talking about that specific machines protocols/applications running. It is not relevant if another machine talks DECnet when we're talking about the bridge program. The bridge program is not a DECnet program, and should not be confused with them. The bridge is just a cable extension. A repeater. A hub. Johnny

17 years, 1 month

How do you connect to HECnet?

by angela＠kahealani.com

17 years, 1 month

What use are *you* making of HECnet?

by sampsa＠mac.com

Done. Sampsa On 2 Mar 2009, at 01:17, Steve Davidson wrote: Sampsa, Could you update the DECnet database using MIM:: please. Area 19 appears to be unknown to your system. Thanks. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Sampsa Laine Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 19:09 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] What use are *you* making of HECnet? Ok, so I just realised CHIMPY is in fact acting as a gateway into and out of HECnet already :) To send mail in: Address the message to "<HECNET NODE>:: <USER>"@chimpymail.sampsa.com To send mail out Address the message to CHIMPY::SMTP%"<Internet email address>" Sampsa On 1 Mar 2009, at 23:53, Peter Lothberg wrote: If I remember right, it was/is Robert Armstrong who had that up and running. LEGATO used to relay email between HECnet (using MAIL11) and the Internet/SMTP, but I quit doing that last fall when I switched registrars. There's no reason I couldn't - I just never bothered to set up the necessary domain name and mail routing again. It was pretty much never used, even by me - after all, everyone with a HECnet connection already has an Internet connection. Bob We could talk "SMTP" over DECnet..... -P

17 years, 1 month

How do you connect to HECnet?

by bqt＠softjar.se

Angela Kahealani wrote: I'm connecting via a NetBSD 4.0 system with two (2) NIC's. One NIC is connected to the Internet router, the other is managed entirely by Johnny's bridge program. Does the bridge program need two NIC's? one for DECnet (with the necessarily forced MAC) 2nd for UDP? can the UDP port share with TCP/IP functionality? i.e., to get from "Internet" <--> Bridge <--> DECnet <--> DECnet-consuming-application how many NICs do I need? Since the DECnet-consuming-application must have a DECnet address, I know it needs it's own NIC on which it can own a corresponding MAC in the DECnet address range, but does the DECnet side of the Bridge program need it's own DECnet address also? Is the short answer to go read some documentation on the bridge program? No. The short answer is "no". :-) One NIC is enough. The bridge program isn't visible to DECnet. Think of it as a cord extension. It grabs all the "correct" ethernet packets on an interface, and sends them out as UDP packets to the IP stack. What the IP stack choose to use for interface is none of it's concern. The same for the other direction. UDP packet is received, and sent out on a specified ethernet interface. The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

17 years, 1 month

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