Sorry to report, but DECnet/E on RSTS/E v8 has no support for networking
over such devices. Else I would've done this years ago. Remember *v8*.
Not 9, and not Mentec. :)
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Mark Abene wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Huh? What do you mean simh don't support any DDCMP-aware devices. You do
know that DDCMP can be run over asyncronous serial lines do you?
This means as long as you can emulate something like a DL11, DZ11, DH11,
or any other stupid serial port, you'll be able to play DDCMP.
Atleast if you are running RSX. Because the next question is what your
OS on your simulated machine can talk DDCMP over, which is a relevant
question here. :-)
Johnny
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
Serious? Are you actually emulating a DMC11? I'm intrigued...
Jason Stevens wrote:
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd
clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the
2nd....
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
Yeah, if I didn't think that every version of RSTS after v8 is a total
abomination. :) I run v8 on purpose, because I actually used to use it
back in the 80's. It's the last "pure" version, before DEC turned it
into crap to make VMS people happy.
-M
Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Could you get RSTS/E V10? If so, you could run DDCMP over an async
terminal line.
paul
Mark Abene wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Huh? What do you mean simh don't support any DDCMP-aware devices. You do know that DDCMP can be run over asyncronous serial lines do you?
This means as long as you can emulate something like a DL11, DZ11, DH11, or any other stupid serial port, you'll be able to play DDCMP.
Atleast if you are running RSX. Because the next question is what your OS on your simulated machine can talk DDCMP over, which is a relevant question here. :-)
Johnny
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
It was pretty simple too...!
I kept my notes here:
http://gunkies.org/wiki/Networking_with_SIMH#HECnet
And as you can see... it was pretty easy.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Jason Stevens wrote:
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the 2nd....
That should actually be pretty simple. Much more simple than any other kind of networking. Anyone should pretty much be able to hack that one together as long as they know just a little about programming for sockets, and have a basic understanding of ethernet.
No strange things needs to be done in relationship with any OS.
(I've been talking with John Wilson about adding this to E11 in the past as well...)
Johnny
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com <mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
> The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a
variety
> of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is
living in
> HECnet lives in software?
>
> I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated.
I have
> the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
> Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running
as part
> of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi
box.
>
> I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
> (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not
set up
> a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
>
> I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
> RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to
remember
> how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
> Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
>
> --Marc
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Mark Abene:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
Could you get RSTS/E V10? If so, you could run DDCMP over an async
terminal line.
paul
Jason Stevens wrote:
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the 2nd....
That should actually be pretty simple. Much more simple than any other kind of networking. Anyone should pretty much be able to hack that one together as long as they know just a little about programming for sockets, and have a basic understanding of ethernet.
No strange things needs to be done in relationship with any OS.
(I've been talking with John Wilson about adding this to E11 in the past as well...)
Johnny
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com <mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
> The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a
variety
> of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is
living in
> HECnet lives in software?
>
> I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated.
I have
> the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
> Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running
as part
> of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi
box.
>
> I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
> (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not
set up
> a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
>
> I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
> RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to
remember
> how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
> Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
>
> --Marc
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I had a patch somewhere for SIMH to talk directly into hecnet.. So it'd clear your first hurdle, although there isn't much I could do about the 2nd....
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> wrote:
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
> The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
> of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
> HECnet lives in software?
>
> I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
> the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
> Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
> of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
>
> I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
> (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
> a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
>
> I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
> RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
> how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
> Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
>
> --Marc
While I have been running three public access emulated systems for a few
years now (TOPS-20 on KLH10, RSTS/E v8 and 2.11BSD on SIMH), there are
several problems with me getting on HECnet. First, my host server is
FreeBSD, and FreeBSD doesn't support multicast on tap network
interfaces, nor have I heard about any plans to. Which means no DECnet.
At some point I plan to migrate my emulators over to a beefy linux
server, and linux does have the necessary support. Second problem, is
that SIMH doesn't support any DDCMP-aware network devices, which means
that even if I solve the first problem (it'll allow me to get TOPS-20 on
DECnet), I don't have any way via SIMH to get DECnet/E working on my
RSTS system. Call me crazy, but I just don't think I'll be paying 4,000
dollars for E11/linux. So that's out.
-Mark
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have
the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's
Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part
of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys
(CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up
a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running
RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember
how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on
Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
Mark Abene wrote:
Minor correction: I log into TINA on a semi-regular basis.
It isn't very well maintained (read, ghost machine), but it's very much
reachable by telnet and always up when I try.
Ok. I should have perhaps said that the plans for TINA is to one day get her connected on HECnet as well, but right now she is on another ethernet segment, and not bridged to the rest, so HECnet connectivity in that case is down. It don't mean that the machine as such is down. As the text said: "unreachable". :-)
I just did a
NCP SHO NOD 1.*
to get a list, on which I then made comments on machines that I'm somewhat associated with.
Johnny
-Mark
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living
in HECnet lives in software?
Let's see now. Among the systems I manage...
1.1 (MAGICA) Unreachable
A real 11/70. Only powered on intermittently, but standing ready by the
turn of the key. Used to be running 24/7 until a few years ago. Services
were moved over to MIM.
1.2 (ERNIE) Unreachable 0 4
A real 11/84. Running 2.11BSD as I write this, but running RSX when on
HECnet.
1.3 (FNATTE) Unreachable
A real 11/73. Running RSX. I doubt I'll resurrect that one.
1.4 (GOBLIN) Unreachable
A uVAX 3500. But I think it has been lost to history.
1.5 (ZEKE) Unreachable
This was a VAX 6440. Decomissioned.
1.6 (GNOME) Unreachable
A real VAXstation 3100/76
1.7 (BJARNE) Unreachable
AlphaStation 255. Currently not in running order, but nothing seriously
wrong with it.
1.8 (KRILLE) Unreachable
A real VAX-8650. Almost ready by just turning a key as well. Same place
as MAGICA. We have a budget "problem" as well as a cooling problem,
which is why the machine isn't doing much. To run it, I might need to
reconnect a console, as well as separately turning on the cabinets with
disks in them, and the HSC-90.
1.9 (TEMPO) Unreachable
Linux
1.10 (SIGGE) Unreachable
A real VAX-7720. We should upgrade it to an 7810 sooner or later. We
should have the cpu card somewhere... Running in short order, much like
KRILLE.
1.11 (ROCKY) Unreachable
AlphaServer 7000. Decomissioned.
1.12 (PONY) Unreachable
AS2100. Decomissioned.
1.13 (MIM)
Emulated (E11). Pretends it's an 11/74. Up 24/7.
1.14 (TINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. (Really Bjorn Victors responsibility.)
1.15 (PONDUS) Reachable 0 4 UNA-0 1.15 (PONDUS)
A real 11/93. Normally running 24/7.
1.16 (GNAT) Unreachable 0 4
VAXstation 4000/90. Sometimes on, sometimes off.
1.17 (JOSSE) Unreachable 0 30
PC running Windows XP.
1.18 (PAMINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. Also Bjorn Victor.
1.19 (BEA) Unreachable 0 30
A real PRO-380 running P/OS.
1.20 (KNASE) Unreachable
Another real 11/70. We have some problem with that machine right now. I
think it's a power supply, but we haven't had time to work on it for a
while.
We have a third 11/70 as well, which we haven't really looked through
yet. Might do something with that one eventually.
Well, that's what I know. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
