HECnet

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

5 participants
15588 discussions

by jeep＠scshome.net

I would be willing to put my InfoServer-100 (with a six-stack CDROM drive) up on the HECnet segment. With the new version of the bridge that we are field testing it might be interesting to see what is possible. I have just purchased a (real not hobbyist) VMS V7.3-1 kit for VAXen to try this out on - it should be here sometime next week. I can make the system available to any and all who would like to login to it and play/learn/hack etc. When the VMS kit shows up I will send additional mail. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Fred Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 08:56 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver? On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: It was my understanding that although the hardware is the same, the ROM firmware would have to be different. Or it was just the real InfoServer which had a crippled firmware just NOT to allow booting VMS on it? set hope/mode=on Would SIMH be up to this task? Can it simulate the needed hardware? If so, that would be the easy test needed. See if a SIMH Infoserver could boot a real VAX. At least it would be "closer" ... (hey, work with me here ... *grin*) Fred

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by fcoffey＠thrifty.misernet.net

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: It was my understanding that although the hardware is the same, the ROM firmware would have to be different. Or it was just the real InfoServer which had a crippled firmware just NOT to allow booting VMS on it? set hope/mode=on Would SIMH be up to this task? Can it simulate the needed hardware? If so, that would be the easy test needed. See if a SIMH Infoserver could boot a real VAX. At least it would be "closer" ... (hey, work with me here ... *grin*) Fred

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:16:24 +0200, you wrote: The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow). It was my understanding that although the hardware is the same, the ROM firmware would have to be different. Or it was just the real InfoServer which had a crippled firmware just NOT to allow booting VMS on it? The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD. Kari, do you know the meaning and use of the various files inside the software CD? In the [SYSD] root there are SYSBOOT.EXE, SYSLOCS.EXE, and LOCSUPDATE.EXE which is functionally equal to the IS1000_V35.SYS file present in [SYS0]. Moreover, in the [SYSD] root there is also a ESS$BOOT.PAR file which is an ODS-2 image containing again SYSBOOT.EXE and SYSLOCS.EXE (exactly equal to the former) and LOCSUPDATE.SYS which is identical to IS1000_V35.SYS in [SYS0]... Chineese boxes indeed! When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like: B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive> Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive. Something like: InfoServer> SET SERVER STATE OFF InfoServer> INITIALIZE DK1 InfoServer> UPDATE SYSTEM DK2 DK1 InfoServer> SET SERVER STATE ON DK2 Should be the first CD-ROM and DK1 should be the system disk. See the following "InfoServer System Operations Guide" (file name mismatches): http://h30266.www3.hp.com/masterindex/installation_guide/installation_guide… Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When Wouldn't it be enough to directly serve the VAX OpenVMS CD-ROM off the InfoServer without copying its entire contents into an Infoserver partition? The InfoServer would use the ISL_SCRIPT.ESS file found in [000000] to automatically MOP-serve the ISL files. Cheers, G.

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by Christine.Caulfield＠googlemail.com

gerry77 at mail.com wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:31:14 -0500 (EST), you wrote: If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it. If you could test with another Alpha system it would be nice to pinpoint the differences between a VAX<-->InfoServer and an Alpha<-->InfoServer dialog, and to ascertain that your configuration works (besides the VAX). For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list. My dream, in some remote future, is to have a little InfoServer daemon running on Linux, just like mopd and latd... Christine... :-) I've been asked about this a few times actually. But I've never even seen an info server, let alone owned one - so reverse-engineering the protocol is probably a little hard ;-) No offers of hardware though ... please! I'm trying to get rid of equipment at the moment, not acquire it, sorry. -- Chrissie

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by gerry77＠mail.com

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:31:14 -0500 (EST), you wrote: If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it. If you could test with another Alpha system it would be nice to pinpoint the differences between a VAX<-->InfoServer and an Alpha<-->InfoServer dialog, and to ascertain that your configuration works (besides the VAX). For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list. My dream, in some remote future, is to have a little InfoServer daemon running on Linux, just like mopd and latd... Christine... :-) Cheers, G.

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by jeep＠scshome.net

The OS used 1MB and the rest was disk/file cache. Quite fast even on a 10Mb non-switched LAN. We used them to serve up bookreader files, ISL's, and Field Service diagnostics. We set session limits to 100 on the bookreader partition. Even with 100 clients performance was amazing! We were able to pay for the unit by not purchasing either 3 or 4 full VMS documentation sets. Great return on investment. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:57 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver? Indeed, the memory is limited, but it doesn't much affect the Infoserver software. It's not a resource hog like modern software. Kari Steve Davidson wrote: Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box! -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver? Fred, I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based) Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your own Infoserver (like the original one). The instructions are simple. The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow). The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD. When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like: B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive> Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive. When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver. Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition. Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS. I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory. Cheers, Kari Fred wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\ You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX. If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it. It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list. A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-) I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha! Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight. P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine. Cheers, Fred --- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 . .

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

Indeed, the memory is limited, but it doesn't much affect the Infoserver software. It's not a resource hog like modern software. Kari Steve Davidson wrote: Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box! -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver? Fred, I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based) Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your own Infoserver (like the original one). The instructions are simple. The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow). The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD. When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like: >>> B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive> Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive. When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver. Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition. Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS. I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory. Cheers, Kari Fred wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\ You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX. If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it. It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list. A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-) I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha! Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight. P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine. Cheers, Fred --- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 . .

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by jeep＠scshome.net

Max memory supported on the original MicroVAX 3100 M10 version was 4MB. I know, because I was one of the DEC internal field-test sites. Great little box! -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 16:16 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver? Fred, I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based) Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your own Infoserver (like the original one). The instructions are simple. The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow). The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD. When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like: B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive> Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive. When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver. Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition. Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS. I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory. Cheers, Kari Fred wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\ You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX. If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it. It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list. A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-) I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha! Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight. P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine. Cheers, Fred --- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 .

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by uusimaki＠exdecfinland.org

Fred, I really appreciate your efforts trying to get the (host based) Infoserver software to serve you, but anyway I suggest you build your own Infoserver (like the original one). The instructions are simple. The needed HW consist of a MicroVAX 3100 (model 10 or 20, not the newer ones), one or two suitable SCSI disk drives (narrow) and a SCSI CD-ROM drive (also narrow). The needed software is available on OpenVMS Freeware 8, disc 1. There's a Zip file where the needed images are. You just have to burn two CD's, the Infoserver software CD and the Disc Function CD. When you have the HW assembled and burnt the CD's you just boot from the Infoserver software CD like: >>> B/R5:D0000000 <cd drive> Then the MicroVAX will boot the Infoserver software from the CD and then you will be able to install the software on the disc drive. When you are finished halt the MicroVAX and boot from the disc drive using the same syntax. Voil , you have created your own Infoserver. Then you can create a partition on the disc sufficiently big to have space for the OpenVMS VAX CD contents. Do remember to enable MOP. When it's ready, create a service for the partition and mount your OpenVMS VAX on your Alpha (or any VMS node). Start the ESS client and find the service from your Infoserver. Connect and bind the service with the option /write. Mount the DADx: device on your Alpha and then perform and image backup from the CD to the Infoserver partition. Now you should be able to boot from the Infoserver and install VAX/VMS. I hope I didn't forget anything as I wrote this out from memory. Cheers, Kari Fred wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\ You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX. If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it. It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list. A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-) I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha! Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight. P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine. Cheers, Fred --- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 .

16 years, 1 month

Boot VAX from Alpha host Infoserver?

by fcoffey＠thrifty.misernet.net

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, gerry77 at mail.com wrote: request that the host-based thing is not able to understand, so the ISL sits there until a timeout is reached and an error is sent to the poor user. :-\ You may be on to something here. I only say this because while sitting in front of Wireshark (ethernet sniffer) I see various LAST protocols come by, and when I look they are from the VAX. If I look in LASTCP, I see the VAX as a client - BUT in the Infoserver software itself, there is no connection to the service that I set up. It's as almost as the request never makes it to the Alpha -or- the software on the Alpha doesn't understand the request (as you say) and ignores it. It would be nice to be able to sniff the initial phases of the dialog between different architecture systems and an InfoServer, just to check if For grins if you'd like I can send you some traces off-list. A final silly question: do you have actually seen any VAX installing VMS from a host-based InfoServer? I have missed this simple "detail"! :-) I have not. In fact before about a week ago I did not know the host-based Infoserver software existed and was sitting, waiting on my Alpha! Right now my current course of action is to set up OpenVMS on SIMH, set that node up as a cluster, and satellite boot the real VAX so I can get access to the disks (cdrom with 7.3 on it). I installed OpenVMS into the SIM last night, and will hopefully get the networking working tonight. P.S.: Excuse my English: it's not my native language and sometimes I'm very dubious about the understandability of my sentences. :-P No problem whatsoever - I can understand you just fine. Cheers, Fred --- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

16 years, 1 month

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