Hi. Apologies for coming in late. I'll try to answer several mails and questions at the same time here...
On 06/30/11 09:10, Mark Benson wrote:
On a semi-related note I noticed something installing 7.3 that it said not to install DECNet-Plus if you want to use DECNet-PhaseIV. Since HECNet is PhaseIV I didn't install Plus on the VAX EMulator, but I *did* IIRC on the Alpha. Will the Alpha need a re-install or reconfiguration of some kind to run on HECNet?
DECnet-Plus is pretty much DECnet IV compatible as far as interoperability goes. What differs is the way you manage the whole thing, as well as all the extra stuff that is in DECnet-Plus. But you can run DECnet-Plus just fine on HECnet, and I think one or two actually do. However, most people just find it overly complex to manage compared to DECnet IV, without any tangible benefits.
As for the "problems" with NetBSD, I think I saw that you figured out that simh needs to be run as root for it to work. That should be pretty obvious, since it would be a big security problem if everyone was allowed to sniff the ethernet cables at will. Also, it is "ra0" and not "/dev/ra0". Ethernet device names are not paths that exist in the file system. It should be obvious if you actually do an ls on /dev... There isn't any /dev/ra0 (well, unless you happen to run a VAX with NetBSD, in which case there would be a /dev/ra0[a-h] for a disk drive.
Yes, both simh and the machine itself can share the same ethernet port, with the possible problem of talking between those two entities. But from other machines, there will not be any problems (this is not an aspect of the pcap library, but actually a thing related to the Berkley packet filter (bpf) which pcap use, and also to the underlying ethernet driver and possibly the hardware itself).
However, there is in general a bigger problem with simh, NetBSD and DECnet, in that DECnet expects to be able to change the MAC address of the ethernet interface, and the ethernet interface on NetBSD does not have a way of doing this. I'm not sure if simh have a workaround for that, but I would be suspicious that maybe DECnet will not work under simh on NetBSD. IP will work fine, however, since it does not try to do such a trick.
As for compiling, yes, the pcap library have to be around already at compile time, or the compilation will fail (obviously). Not withstanding shared libraries and all that, the header files, which are also installed along with the pcap library itself, are needed for compilation. And at link time, the library is checked for some information at that time also. That said, libpcap is a standard component of NetBSD, and there is no need to install another version from pkgsrc.
> Hi Mark, you do know that one of the symptoms of being a VMS bigot is that unixes look alike :-)
That's kinda like confusing VMS and Windows NT because they both have something to do with Dave Cutler and associates ;)
Well, not really. Linux and Unix are written by different people, but they are based on the same basic design. VMS and WNT was designed by the same person, but not designed in the same way.
Anyone using one Unix system will feel pretty much at home with any other Unix system. Yes, some details differs, but almost everything will be the same, down to using the same shell, similary file system layout, and so on... Try that between VMS and WNT if you dare... :-)
Johnny
Security on BSD distributions is tight, you might need to reduce the security policies on the system. Libpcap turns the ethernet device in promiscuous mode and that may be considered harmful.
Figures. You can only run SIMH with networking as root. Might explain it.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 10:56, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Hans
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:26:19
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
"File not found" I think. Like it couldn't pick up the device.
Re: Sharing a port, I don't need to talk to the host OS from the VAX emulation, I just need to access both from a third host.
I will have to compile libpcap from pkgsrc but that shouldn't be an issue unless pcap needs to be present at compile time. If that is the case I just need to recompile SIMH so again no big deal.
FWIW, NetBSD is not a flavour of Linux either ;) ;)
<this is intended as a lighthearted statement>
It's all good fun!
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:53, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
What error message did you get?
Mark. if you want me to hook you up with some HPUX media I'd be happy to.
I'd be very happy if you could - I need a suitable set of install and applications media for IA64 - preferably 11i v2 or later.
I have a zx6000 like yours but with no skins or stand. Nice machine but boy does it throw out some heat!
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30/06/11 11:58, Mark Benson wrote:
Hi Mark, you do know that one of the symptoms of being a VMS bigot is that unixes look alike :-)
That's kinda like confusing VMS and Windows NT because they both have something to do with Dave Cutler and associates ;)
Actually, when I typed the reply I had forgotten which host os it was. NetBSD is pretty easy to install IIRC, had it installed on a VAX and an Alpha. Never did anything with it.
I have run it on a multitude of architectures. In all cases it's insanely easy to bootstrap. Also they start you out with just the basic OS, TCP/IP access, SSH and no crap to get in the way. Thus it was a natural choice for me as a minimal framework to run SIMH on.
These days all vaxes run VMS as do most alphas. Three alphas run Tru64 though.
I have a policy if not running generic OSs on specialist hardware. If I want a generic OS I use a generic computer I.e. x86_64).
All my non-x86 machines run their intended OSs apart for my zx6000 - I don't need a third VMS machine and I don't have the HP-UX 11i v2 IA64 media that goes with it :(
File not found is a curious error message. It's as if there is a typo in a .conf file in /etc?
Unlikely. The Ethernet works fine :)
/dev/ra0 is a strange name (for me and I know I lead a sheltered life ;-), what kind of hardware is it (1000 Mb/s ethernet perhaps).
Whatever is on the D410PT motherboard. Probably realtek (hence the ra0 - follows old UNIX convention of using vendor names for devices ala wd0 being hard drive storage named for Western Digital)
Or possibly because /dev/ra0 doesn't exist or cannot be accessed by libpcap (does it need root privs to run)?
I strongly suspect libpcap is missing. Pretty much everything is optional in NetBSD!
Mark. if you want me to hook you up with some HPUX media I'd be happy to.
Mark.
Hi Mark, you do know that one of the symptoms of being a VMS bigot is that unixes look alike :-)
That's kinda like confusing VMS and Windows NT because they both have something to do with Dave Cutler and associates ;)
Actually, when I typed the reply I had forgotten which host os it was. NetBSD is pretty easy to install IIRC, had it installed on a VAX and an Alpha. Never did anything with it.
I have run it on a multitude of architectures. In all cases it's insanely easy to bootstrap. Also they start you out with just the basic OS, TCP/IP access, SSH and no crap to get in the way. Thus it was a natural choice for me as a minimal framework to run SIMH on.
These days all vaxes run VMS as do most alphas. Three alphas run Tru64 though.
I have a policy if not running generic OSs on specialist hardware. If I want a generic OS I use a generic computer I.e. x86_64).
All my non-x86 machines run their intended OSs apart for my zx6000 - I don't need a third VMS machine and I don't have the HP-UX 11i v2 IA64 media that goes with it :(
File not found is a curious error message. It's as if there is a typo in a .conf file in /etc?
Unlikely. The Ethernet works fine :)
/dev/ra0 is a strange name (for me and I know I lead a sheltered life ;-), what kind of hardware is it (1000 Mb/s ethernet perhaps).
Whatever is on the D410PT motherboard. Probably realtek (hence the ra0 - follows old UNIX convention of using vendor names for devices ala wd0 being hard drive storage named for Western Digital)
Or possibly because /dev/ra0 doesn't exist or cannot be accessed by libpcap (does it need root privs to run)?
I strongly suspect libpcap is missing. Pretty much everything is optional in NetBSD!
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
Hi Mark, you do know that one of the symptoms of being a VMS bigot is that unixes look alike :-)
Actually, when I typed the reply I had forgotten which host os it was. NetBSD is pretty easy to install IIRC, had it installed on a VAX and an Alpha. Never did anything with it. These days all vaxes run VMS as do most alphas. Three alphas run Tru64 though.
File not found is a curious error message. It's as if there is a typo in a .conf file in /etc?
/dev/ra0 is a strange name (for me and I know I lead a sheltered life ;-), what kind of hardware is it (1000 Mb/s ethernet perhaps).
Or possibly because /dev/ra0 doesn't exist or cannot be accessed by libpcap (does it need root privs to run)?
Security on BSD distributions is tight, you might need to reduce the security policies on the system. Libpcap turns the ethernet device in promiscuous mode and that may be considered harmful.
Hans
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:26:19
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
"File not found" I think. Like it couldn't pick up the device.
Re: Sharing a port, I don't need to talk to the host OS from the VAX emulation, I just need to access both from a third host.
I will have to compile libpcap from pkgsrc but that shouldn't be an issue unless pcap needs to be present at compile time. If that is the case I just need to recompile SIMH so again no big deal.
FWIW, NetBSD is not a flavour of Linux either ;) ;)
<this is intended as a lighthearted statement>
It's all good fun!
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:53, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
What error message did you get?
"File not found" I think. Like it couldn't pick up the device.
Re: Sharing a port, I don't need to talk to the host OS from the VAX emulation, I just need to access both from a third host.
I will have to compile libpcap from pkgsrc but that shouldn't be an issue unless pcap needs to be present at compile time. If that is the case I just need to recompile SIMH so again no big deal.
FWIW, NetBSD is not a flavour of Linux either ;) ;)
<this is intended as a lighthearted statement>
It's all good fun!
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:53, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
What error message did you get?
What error message did you get?
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:33:55 +0100
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
Has anyone ever run SIMH out of NetBSD? I'm curious as to how to link the Ethernet to the LAN device (ra0) on my D410 board.
It fails if I use:
attach xq ra0
OR
attach xq /dev/ra0
So not sure what to assign it to...
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 09:05, Fausto Saporito <fausap at libero.it> wrote:
Hello,
the TCPIP package is on the CD, and you have to install after the installation.
Before, you have to change some system parameters.
A good guide is http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html
Here you can find all the instructions to set up your sistem.
Fausto
The simh host gets a separate address. A third system can connect to the host os and to the emulated system(s). Simultaneously even.
What doesn't work (IIRC) is an IP connection between the emulated system and its host, never mind which system initiated the session.
Whether it works on your particular flavor of linux: don't know. But if the host supports the pcap library then I think it will.
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Mark Benson
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
Verzonden: 30 juni 2011 10:36
Also was going to ask (sorry for the e-mail flood) if on attaching ra0 to SIMH will it take the port over or co-exist on a separate IP address? I'd Ideally like to be able to SSH both the VAX and the Linux sides of the box.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
Mark, when you've installed TCPIP you run. @tcpIP$config.
Next, make sure that DECnet gets started before TCPIP is. These command files are usually in the VMS startup file.
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Mark Benson
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX Project
Verzonden: 30 juni 2011 10:29
Guys, I feel like such an idiot. I was following that self same tutorial to bootstrap SIMH and OpenVMS 7.3 - I didn't realise it went on that far. Epic FAIL ;)
See I told you it was too early!
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On 30 Jun 2011, at 08:38, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
See these instructions for details on what you need to do: http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html
Regards, Mark.
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