uBLISS made it to (internal) field-test. I don't remember how much
further it got. That's how I got a chance to use it. No commitment was
made as to how much of a subset would finally be delivered but at the
time I did not care. I thought that even as slow as it was it was a
blast to play with. I remember submitting uBLISS jobs to RSX-11M-PLUS
systems (ASTRIX:: and OBELIX::), (Corporate Operations Group, Software
Services), while doing real work. It worked for me!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Tim Sneddon
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:19
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 15:57 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for
VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of
the status
of
Micro-BLISS was a BLISS compiler that ran on the PDP-11.
However, it was not at all successful. Given the size of the
BLISS compiler much of the optimisations, etc. had to be
removed to make it all fit. I don't believe it was actually
completed as a project.
that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for
the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
PDP-11 BLISS was either written on a PDP-10 or VAX. The
PDP-11 Fortran IV compiler was written in BLISS-11. DECnet
was written in the Common BLISS dialect.
Tim.
Internally, that compiler was known as BLISS-16C (C for cross-compiler).
The TRANSF utility in RT-11 was eventually written in BLISS-16C (and
common BLISS) so that one source pool could be maintained across the
various operating systems (RT-11, RSX-11, VAX/VMS).
EDT (I was the project leader for V3.10) used BLISS-16C for the builds
on RSX-11M, IAS-11, and RSTS/E (RSX run-time environment) and BLISS-32
(eventually BLISS-64) for VMS.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:14
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
All of RMS-11 is written in BLISS-16. Parts of the RSX kernel
is written in BLISS-16, and also parts of DECnet-RSX is
written in BLISS-16.
Cross-compiled on VMS, and the result transferred back to the
RSX system for the full build. Listings and stuff from the
BLISS-16 compiles are distributed as a part of the RSX distribution.
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 16.01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
I don't know that DEC used Bliss at all for PDP-11
software. The only place I ever saw it was in an Algol-68
compiler written at Carnegie-Mellon (the original
perpetrators of Bliss). That was a different edition,
though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a PDP-10.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:58 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for
VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of
the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not
use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other
one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and
don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may
take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some,
and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far
away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
uBLISS was a subset and VERY slow, but... It worked on the 11's. I got
the chance to play with it for a day and despite the speed (or lack
thereof) I thought it had promise.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 09:58
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for
VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the
status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use
it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and
don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may
take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some,
and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 15:57 +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of
Micro-BLISS was a BLISS compiler that ran on the PDP-11. However, it
was not at all successful. Given the size of the BLISS compiler much
of the optimisations, etc. had to be removed to make it all fit. I
don't believe it was actually completed as a project.
that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the
Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
PDP-11 BLISS was either written on a PDP-10 or VAX. The PDP-11
Fortran IV compiler was written in BLISS-11. DECnet was written in
the Common BLISS dialect.
Tim.
All of RMS-11 is written in BLISS-16. Parts of the RSX kernel is written in BLISS-16, and also parts of DECnet-RSX is written in BLISS-16. Cross-compiled on VMS, and the result transferred back to the RSX system for the full build. Listings and stuff from the BLISS-16 compiles are distributed as a part of the RSX distribution.
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 16.01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
I don't know that DEC used Bliss at all for PDP-11 software. The only place I ever saw it was in an Algol-68 compiler written at Carnegie-Mellon (the original perpetrators of Bliss). That was a different edition, though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a PDP-10.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:58 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some, and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
That was a different edition, though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a
PDP-10.
BLISS-11 was also a differently language too, albeit slightly. When DEC
adopted BLISS they just had to change some of the syntax to make it their
own.
Likewise there was a BLISS-10 and a BLISS-36. And there was a BLISS-32
for VAXen, although AFAIK there was never a cross compiler for that version
and there was never a BLISS-10/11 equivalent for it. BLISS-32 was of
course used fairly extensively for VMS.
Bob
I don't know that DEC used Bliss at all for PDP-11 software. The only place I ever saw it was in an Algol-68 compiler written at Carnegie-Mellon (the original perpetrators of Bliss). That was a different edition, though, called Bliss-11 and hosted on a PDP-10.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:58 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX
(VMS) generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the
compiler that ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)?
BLISS-16C while hard to find may be available, the other one I have
only seen (and used) once in the 80's while at DEC and don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it some, and I have
a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution CDs are far away, and I
don't know if I have BLISS in there, but I thought I'd start by
asking here before I try to get access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
Hi, Steve.
Looking for the cross compiler. (Like I said, BLISS-16 for VMS... :-) ).
I've seen one reference for uBLISS, but I have no idea of the status of that one. Was it even usable? Why did DEC not use it internally for the Bliss stuff for PDP-11s?
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 15.55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX (VMS)
generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the compiler that
ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)? BLISS-16C while hard
to find may be available, the other one I have only seen (and used) once
in the 80's while at DEC and don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled
with BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it
some, and I have a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution
CDs are far away, and I don't know if I have BLISS in there,
but I thought I'd start by asking here before I try to get
access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
Johnny,
Are you looking for the cross compiler (BLISS-16C) that ran on VAX (VMS)
generating code for the 11's, or are you looking for the compiler that
ran directly on the 11's (uBLISS AKA microBLISS)? BLISS-16C while hard
to find may be available, the other one I have only seen (and used) once
in the 80's while at DEC and don't expect it to be available anywhere.
I will check to see if I have a copy of either, but it may take a while!
I'm not sure what condition the tapes I have are in - it has been
decades since they were last accessed.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 22:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] BLISS-16?
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled
with BLISS-32, but I don't know. I would like to test it
some, and I have a VAX box running VMS, but my distribution
CDs are far away, and I don't know if I have BLISS in there,
but I thought I'd start by asking here before I try to get
access to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
On 2011-10-10 10.07, Mark Wickens wrote:
On 10/10/11 05:04, Dan B wrote:
http://www.digiater.nl/openvms/freeware/v80/bliss/
On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Johnny Billquist<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Do anyone have BLISS-16 for VMS? I guess it might be bundled with
BLISS-32,
but I don't know. I would like to test it some, and I have a VAX box
running
VMS, but my distribution CDs are far away, and I don't know if I have
BLISS
in there, but I thought I'd start by asking here before I try to get
access
to CDs 2000 km away...
Johnny
Or indeed, the HECnet way, slave::[media.decus-1.freewarev80.bliss]
Otherwise http://hecnet.eu/archive/DECUS-1/FREEWAREV80/BLISS/
That's got to be nicer ;)
Thanks both of you. However, it appears that the BLISS that is on the Freeware CD is only BLISS-32, and it don't seem to include BLISS-16, atleast from reading the documentation. Anyone have the full set of the VMS distribution with all languages and tools, so that we can check there?
(And yes, somewhere on HECnet is nicer... :-) )
Johnny
