RFC 2616 is the authority on all this. Judging by a quick scan: what do you mean by "chunk data"? If you don't specify a transfer-coding, then yes, I think 8 bit clean is assumed. But since you mentioned "chunk" do you mean that you're specifying chunked encoding? I didn't read all that but there's a lot of content about that in the RFC.
You'll need a content-length header, unless the connection is closed after the jpg file is transferred. See section 4.4 of the RFC.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:07 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Web-server under RSX-11M-PLUS
On 2012-04-13 17:01, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I also noticed a disturbing lack of funny cat pictures on the demo site...
That is related to my most immediate question. Exactly how does pictures get served in http. I tried implementing it, but I must have something wrong, so I'm trying to figure it out right now.
Questions are:
I assume the TCP stream is to be 8-bit clean. That is - no special interpretation of the byte 255 (as is done in telnet).
I assume that pictures should be ok with "Content-type: image/jpeg"
I assume chunk data should work for this I assume that all the bytes of the image should just come in the stream with nothing more involved.
Can anyone comment on those assumptions?
I have a jpeg image on mim, which I'm using as my experiment. I have checked that the contents match that of the original file which I copied, so I think the actual image is served right...
Johnny
Sampsa
On 13 Apr 2012, at 17:58, Mark Wickens wrote:
Johnny,
That's really fantastic!
Just one question, where are the dancing dogs? ;)
Regards, Mark
On 13/04/12 13:41, Johnny Billquist wrote:
This is perhaps slightly offtopic, but fun enough that I like to announce it anyway...
===
Ok. I just thought I'd stir some interest and just general noise by announcing that I've written a small web-server running under RSX.
It's written in BASIC+2, and uses the TCP/IP stack for RSX that I've also written. There are probably a bunch of bugs and issues still around, so I'm happy to take any bug reports, comments or whatever.
The url is http://madame.update.uu.se/, and if anyone is curious
about the code, it's at mim.update.uu.se (same machine, other IP),
under MIM::DU:[HTTPD]WWW.B2S (also on HECnet)
If people have any interest in this stuff, or something else/more, I'm interested in hearing about it. The TCP/IP stack will eventually (soon) be available for others to download and use, and apart from the web server, I've also written a telnet client, and a few small services under TCP, as well as some tools for administration. I have some polishing to do, I need to finish a DNS resolved, and I'd like to also finish FTP and a telnet server, but I might be open to distributing things before I've finished all those things, especially if someone is interested in helping writing stuff.
I have interfaces completed for BASIC+2, PDP-11 C, Macro-11. FORTRAN 77 should also work, but I haven't tried it yet.
This all runs under RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, but I think it should be possible to get running under almost any M+ version, but there might be some hacking needed for some versions.
It will not work under 11M, and I never expect it to. One or two drivers as well as one or two tools really are big enough that I need to use the split I/D space feature in M+. Rewriting stuff to not need that is way too much work.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-04-13 16:44, Mark Benson wrote:
On 13 Apr 2012, at 15:11, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se
<mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote:
On 2012-04-13 16:03, Mark Benson wrote:
I'm sure we could work something out. Do you have some experience with
web servers? I have one or two questions that you might help me with...
Also, you could do some work on MIM, where the stack and tools are
already in place...
I work on AMP (apache/MySQL/PHP) for a living. I wouldn't ever claim to
be an expert on web servers but I know how apache works and where to
look up what I don't know ;)
Ah. Hmmm. I'm not sure how much that knowledge helps here, but maybe it might be a good start anyway.
Right now, there is nothing like the CGI interface of Unix web-servers. It might be something we could look at. The basic concept of kicking off a subprocess, and using the output as the result is nothing difficult. More tricky is the question of how to pass information that in Apache and others are passed as environment variables. Need to think about that one.
Scripting... Nothing exist yet. You could use IND, I guess, but it's nothing like PHP. Also, no connection to any database as such from IND. Using a HLL, like BASIC, you can always play with RMS, which gives you lots of features. Or you could also go to Datatrieve...
If there is some way of allowing me to work in isolation to the main
code stream I'd happily work on MIM as long as I am not going to screw
up anything.
That's easy. Just copy the .B2S files from [HTTPD] to your own directory, make changes, compile, and run. You need to change it to use another port (one above 1024), but then you just run, and it will work for you. Only one connection though, when your program exits, nothing is listening to the port any longer. You can (of course) just put an outer loop on the code for your testing purposes. And there are some more tricks you can do, if you want to. Let me know when/if you do this and I can help.
Long term I would like to roll my own PDP-11/RSX11M+ system to use the
stack and web server on, though.
Definitely. And that would be pretty cool. I have (like I said) a few things I want to clean up before I start trying to roll a distribution, but it's not that far away...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-04-13 16:58, Mark Wickens wrote:
Johnny,
That's really fantastic!
Just one question, where are the dancing dogs? ;)
Coming... Jeez. The impatience of this crowd... ;-)
Johnny
Regards, Mark
On 13/04/12 13:41, Johnny Billquist wrote:
This is perhaps slightly offtopic, but fun enough that I like to
announce it anyway...
===
Ok. I just thought I'd stir some interest and just general noise by
announcing that I've written a small web-server running under RSX.
It's written in BASIC+2, and uses the TCP/IP stack for RSX that I've
also written. There are probably a bunch of bugs and issues still
around, so I'm happy to take any bug reports, comments or whatever.
The url is http://madame.update.uu.se/, and if anyone is curious about
the code, it's at mim.update.uu.se (same machine, other IP), under
MIM::DU:[HTTPD]WWW.B2S (also on HECnet)
If people have any interest in this stuff, or something else/more, I'm
interested in hearing about it. The TCP/IP stack will eventually
(soon) be available for others to download and use, and apart from the
web server, I've also written a telnet client, and a few small
services under TCP, as well as some tools for administration. I have
some polishing to do, I need to finish a DNS resolved, and I'd like to
also finish FTP and a telnet server, but I might be open to
distributing things before I've finished all those things, especially
if someone is interested in helping writing stuff.
I have interfaces completed for BASIC+2, PDP-11 C, Macro-11. FORTRAN
77 should also work, but I haven't tried it yet.
This all runs under RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, but I think it should be
possible to get running under almost any M+ version, but there might
be some hacking needed for some versions.
It will not work under 11M, and I never expect it to. One or two
drivers as well as one or two tools really are big enough that I need
to use the split I/D space feature in M+. Rewriting stuff to not need
that is way too much work.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-04-13 17:01, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I also noticed a disturbing lack of funny cat pictures on the demo site...
That is related to my most immediate question. Exactly how does pictures get served in http. I tried implementing it, but I must have something wrong, so I'm trying to figure it out right now.
Questions are:
I assume the TCP stream is to be 8-bit clean. That is - no special interpretation of the byte 255 (as is done in telnet).
I assume that pictures should be ok with "Content-type: image/jpeg"
I assume chunk data should work for this
I assume that all the bytes of the image should just come in the stream with nothing more involved.
Can anyone comment on those assumptions?
I have a jpeg image on mim, which I'm using as my experiment. I have checked that the contents match that of the original file which I copied, so I think the actual image is served right...
Johnny
Sampsa
On 13 Apr 2012, at 17:58, Mark Wickens wrote:
Johnny,
That's really fantastic!
Just one question, where are the dancing dogs? ;)
Regards, Mark
On 13/04/12 13:41, Johnny Billquist wrote:
This is perhaps slightly offtopic, but fun enough that I like to announce it anyway...
===
Ok. I just thought I'd stir some interest and just general noise by announcing that I've written a small web-server running under RSX.
It's written in BASIC+2, and uses the TCP/IP stack for RSX that I've also written. There are probably a bunch of bugs and issues still around, so I'm happy to take any bug reports, comments or whatever.
The url is http://madame.update.uu.se/, and if anyone is curious about the code, it's at mim.update.uu.se (same machine, other IP), under MIM::DU:[HTTPD]WWW.B2S (also on HECnet)
If people have any interest in this stuff, or something else/more, I'm interested in hearing about it. The TCP/IP stack will eventually (soon) be available for others to download and use, and apart from the web server, I've also written a telnet client, and a few small services under TCP, as well as some tools for administration. I have some polishing to do, I need to finish a DNS resolved, and I'd like to also finish FTP and a telnet server, but I might be open to distributing things before I've finished all those things, especially if someone is interested in helping writing stuff.
I have interfaces completed for BASIC+2, PDP-11 C, Macro-11. FORTRAN 77 should also work, but I haven't tried it yet.
This all runs under RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, but I think it should be possible to get running under almost any M+ version, but there might be some hacking needed for some versions.
It will not work under 11M, and I never expect it to. One or two drivers as well as one or two tools really are big enough that I need to use the split I/D space feature in M+. Rewriting stuff to not need that is way too much work.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
You're right, drivers in RSTS have nothing whatsoever in common with any other OS. They aren't all that complicated, just different. Also undocumented... And they come in four flavors: disk, terminal port, other non-network device, network (DECnet) device. The last two have a bunch of similarities, but the first two are completely unrelated to anything else.
The other thing about RSTS networking is that the existing networking user API doesn't use device drivers or I/O calls, but rather send-message operations. It would make sense for other protocol stacks to do likewise. The main complication is that those message operations are packet based, which makes them a fairly poor fit for the TCP stream-based semantics.
Oh yes, RSTS does have asynchronous I/O with ASTs, starting with V9.0. They are only really async for selected devices: disk file I/O, and streaming tapes (TS11 and TMSCP). That was done to make backup to streaming tapes run at civilized performance.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:39 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Web-server under RSX-11M-PLUS
There are parts that are pretty common, and there are parts that are miles apart...
Device drivers, as well as I/O in general, is very different in RSX than RSTS/E.
The same goes for the concepts of processes/tasks, which in RSTS/E are a job, which is tied to a terminal, while in RSX tasks are more self-contained in the same way as under Unix. So you can run several tasks at the same time from one terminal, and tasks can run other tasks without exiting themself, and that is the normal way of life. RSTS/E is in another category of design.
All I/O is also asynchronous in RSX... And you have ASTs that tells you when things actually have happened.
Not that I want to rack down on RSTS/E, or discourage you from trying something, but you should expect this to be in the rather difficult category of work... :-)
Johnny
On 2012-04-13 15:32, Steve Davidson wrote:
Well...
While the two Oses ARE different they do share quite a bit. I used to
support RSX (and IAS) at the internals level when I worked in the
Corporate Operations Group/Software Services/Real-time Group (RTG) at
DEC so I'm quite at home with the RSX family of systems. I use RSTS/E
in day-to-day tasks here. I am out of practice but it wouldn't take
that much to come back up to speed programming wise. I also used to
teach MACRO-11 to Software Services Personnel.
This could be fun! It will certainly be different!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 09:22
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Web-server under RSX-11M-PLUS
Some parts possibly, but it would be very complex. Much of the actual
TCP/IP implementation is in the form of device drivers.
In RSX, there is (now) IF:, which is the basic device interfaces,
IP:, which talks raw IP (and ICMP), UD:, which talks UDP, and TC:,
which talks TCP.
The TC: driver, as well as the UD: driver internally then talks to
the
IP: driver. The IP: driver in turn talks to the appropriate
IF: driver, depending on the routing tables.
TC: even understands file specifications, so you can do things like:
PIP TI:=TC:"130.238.19.212";17, which will give you the quote of the
day on your terminal (that's what port 17 is). (Try it on MIM:: :-) )
Device drivers are very different in the different OSes, so the basic
code that deals with the protocol bits can pretty much be used
straight off, but all the code dealing with the interfacing to the
OS, memory, other drivers, and user applications, will be totally
different. I'm not sure exactly how a device driver in RSTS/E works.
Also, for ethernet, I make use of a feature in RSX called an ACP,
which is like a user level program that extends the functionality of
a device.
So the ethernet device is an ACP attached to the IF: driver (for the
specific unit), and which in turn implements all the logic of
communicating over ethernet, including ARP.
And then of course, is the tools, which are perhaps a bit more OS
specific, but they are smaller and simpler for the most part.
Applications (if everything else was ported) would probably work
without any changes.
Johnny
On 2012-04-13 14:55, Steve Davidson wrote:
Johnny,
Could it be ported to RSTS/E V10.1? That's what PLUTO:: is.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 08:41
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Web-server under RSX-11M-PLUS
This is perhaps slightly offtopic, but fun enough that I like to
announce it anyway...
===
Ok. I just thought I'd stir some interest and just general
noise by
announcing that I've written a small web-server running under RSX.
It's written in BASIC+2, and uses the TCP/IP stack for RSX
that I've
also written. There are probably a bunch of bugs and issues still
around, so I'm happy to take any bug reports, comments or whatever.
The url is http://madame.update.uu.se/, and if anyone is curious
about the code, it's at mim.update.uu.se (same machine, other IP),
under MIM::DU:[HTTPD]WWW.B2S (also on HECnet)
If people have any interest in this stuff, or something else/more,
I'm interested in hearing about it. The TCP/IP stack will
eventually
(soon) be available for others to download and use, and apart from
the web server, I've also written a telnet client, and a few small
services under TCP, as well as some tools for
administration. I have
some polishing to do, I need to finish a DNS resolved, and
I'd like
to also finish FTP and a telnet server, but I might be open to
distributing things before I've finished all those things,
especially
if someone is interested in helping writing stuff.
I have interfaces completed for BASIC+2, PDP-11 C, Macro-11.
FORTRAN 77 should also work, but I haven't tried it yet.
This all runs under RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, but I think it should be
possible to get running under almost any M+ version, but
there might
be some hacking needed for some versions.
It will not work under 11M, and I never expect it to. One or two
drivers as well as one or two tools really are big enough
that I need
to use the split I/D space feature in M+.
Rewriting stuff to not need that is way too much work.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I also noticed a disturbing lack of funny cat pictures on the demo site...
Sampsa
On 13 Apr 2012, at 17:58, Mark Wickens wrote:
Johnny,
That's really fantastic!
Just one question, where are the dancing dogs? ;)
Regards, Mark
On 13/04/12 13:41, Johnny Billquist wrote:
This is perhaps slightly offtopic, but fun enough that I like to announce it anyway...
===
Ok. I just thought I'd stir some interest and just general noise by announcing that I've written a small web-server running under RSX.
It's written in BASIC+2, and uses the TCP/IP stack for RSX that I've also written. There are probably a bunch of bugs and issues still around, so I'm happy to take any bug reports, comments or whatever.
The url is http://madame.update.uu.se/, and if anyone is curious about the code, it's at mim.update.uu.se (same machine, other IP), under MIM::DU:[HTTPD]WWW.B2S (also on HECnet)
If people have any interest in this stuff, or something else/more, I'm interested in hearing about it. The TCP/IP stack will eventually (soon) be available for others to download and use, and apart from the web server, I've also written a telnet client, and a few small services under TCP, as well as some tools for administration. I have some polishing to do, I need to finish a DNS resolved, and I'd like to also finish FTP and a telnet server, but I might be open to distributing things before I've finished all those things, especially if someone is interested in helping writing stuff.
I have interfaces completed for BASIC+2, PDP-11 C, Macro-11. FORTRAN 77 should also work, but I haven't tried it yet.
This all runs under RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, but I think it should be possible to get running under almost any M+ version, but there might be some hacking needed for some versions.
It will not work under 11M, and I never expect it to. One or two drivers as well as one or two tools really are big enough that I need to use the split I/D space feature in M+. Rewriting stuff to not need that is way too much work.
Johnny
Johnny,
That's really fantastic!
Just one question, where are the dancing dogs? ;)
Regards, Mark
On 13/04/12 13:41, Johnny Billquist wrote:
This is perhaps slightly offtopic, but fun enough that I like to announce it anyway...
===
Ok. I just thought I'd stir some interest and just general noise by announcing that I've written a small web-server running under RSX.
It's written in BASIC+2, and uses the TCP/IP stack for RSX that I've also written. There are probably a bunch of bugs and issues still around, so I'm happy to take any bug reports, comments or whatever.
The url is http://madame.update.uu.se/, and if anyone is curious about the code, it's at mim.update.uu.se (same machine, other IP), under MIM::DU:[HTTPD]WWW.B2S (also on HECnet)
If people have any interest in this stuff, or something else/more, I'm interested in hearing about it. The TCP/IP stack will eventually (soon) be available for others to download and use, and apart from the web server, I've also written a telnet client, and a few small services under TCP, as well as some tools for administration. I have some polishing to do, I need to finish a DNS resolved, and I'd like to also finish FTP and a telnet server, but I might be open to distributing things before I've finished all those things, especially if someone is interested in helping writing stuff.
I have interfaces completed for BASIC+2, PDP-11 C, Macro-11. FORTRAN 77 should also work, but I haven't tried it yet.
This all runs under RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, but I think it should be possible to get running under almost any M+ version, but there might be some hacking needed for some versions.
It will not work under 11M, and I never expect it to. One or two drivers as well as one or two tools really are big enough that I need to use the split I/D space feature in M+. Rewriting stuff to not need that is way too much work.
Johnny
On 13 Apr 2012, at 15:11, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2012-04-13 16:03, Mark Benson wrote:
I'm sure we could work something out. Do you have some experience with web servers? I have one or two questions that you might help me with...
Also, you could do some work on MIM, where the stack and tools are already in place...
I work on AMP (apache/MySQL/PHP) for a living. I wouldn't ever claim to be an expert on web servers but I know how apache works and where to look up what I don't know ;)
If there is some way of allowing me to work in isolation to the main code stream I'd happily work on MIM as long as I am not going to screw up anything.
Long term I would like to roll my own PDP-11/RSX11M+ system to use the stack and web server on, though.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/bloghttp://twitter.com/MDBenson
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Thought some of you guys might enjoy this: http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/byte/pdf/
Sampsa
Hello!
Amazing! Some of these I've been looking for since last year. Thanks!
You don't have to pay the six Yetis outside of your place today
Sampsa.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
