On 6/4/2012 10:50 AM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Jun 4, 2012, at 10:14 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
On 6/4/2012 7:55 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 06/04/2012 07:52 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it working on Solaris.
You mean it doesn't? I wonder why that would be.
/simh/rifter/vax.ini> set cpu idle=VMS
Command not allowed
It detects the idle loop patterns in some OSs and throttles back the
simulator, so the host system isn't sitting there burning CPU to execute
the guest OS's idle loop.
Right, but I'm curious what it needs to know about the host OS to accomplish that.
I should look at the source but I'm not sure I'll know what I'm looking at. :)
See vax_cpu.c.
My copy (SIMH 3.8.1) rejects that command with a different message: "Invalid argument". But to make things even stranger, it DOES accept the command -- "show cpu idle" shows that it paid attention.
Possibly the issue is that the VAX-specific command next passes control to the general command (in sim_timer.c) and that routine accepts an argument but requires it to be an integer!
You might try simply "set cpu idle" (without argument). The default seems to be VMS, with NETBSD, OPENBSD, ULTRIX, and 32V accepted as alternate values. The difference is in what the particular OS does when it is idle. That tends to change from one OS to another (even when the hardware seems to suggest a standard way to do it, as in the PDP11 with its WAIT instruction).
Same thing:
/simh/rifter/vax.ini> set cpu idle
Command not allowed
-brian
On Jun 4, 2012, at 10:14 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
On 6/4/2012 7:55 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 06/04/2012 07:52 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it working on Solaris.
You mean it doesn't? I wonder why that would be.
/simh/rifter/vax.ini> set cpu idle=VMS
Command not allowed
It detects the idle loop patterns in some OSs and throttles back the
simulator, so the host system isn't sitting there burning CPU to execute
the guest OS's idle loop.
Right, but I'm curious what it needs to know about the host OS to accomplish that.
I should look at the source but I'm not sure I'll know what I'm looking at. :)
See vax_cpu.c.
My copy (SIMH 3.8.1) rejects that command with a different message: "Invalid argument". But to make things even stranger, it DOES accept the command -- "show cpu idle" shows that it paid attention.
Possibly the issue is that the VAX-specific command next passes control to the general command (in sim_timer.c) and that routine accepts an argument but requires it to be an integer!
You might try simply "set cpu idle" (without argument). The default seems to be VMS, with NETBSD, OPENBSD, ULTRIX, and 32V accepted as alternate values. The difference is in what the particular OS does when it is idle. That tends to change from one OS to another (even when the hardware seems to suggest a standard way to do it, as in the PDP11 with its WAIT instruction).
paul
On 6/4/2012 7:55 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 06/04/2012 07:52 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it working on Solaris.
You mean it doesn't? I wonder why that would be.
/simh/rifter/vax.ini> set cpu idle=VMS
Command not allowed
It detects the idle loop patterns in some OSs and throttles back the
simulator, so the host system isn't sitting there burning CPU to execute
the guest OS's idle loop.
Right, but I'm curious what it needs to know about the host OS to accomplish that.
I should look at the source but I'm not sure I'll know what I'm looking at. :)
-brian
You paged??? I've been flat out lately. Sorry.
What's up? I will be around all day today.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 15:41
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Paging: Steve Davidson
I'm trying to get in touch with Steve, is he around at the
moment? I e-mailed his address a while back but got no response.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On 06/04/2012 07:52 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it working on Solaris.
You mean it doesn't? I wonder why that would be.
It detects the idle loop patterns in some OSs and throttles back the
simulator, so the host system isn't sitting there burning CPU to execute
the guest OS's idle loop.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Wouldn't it be easier (and more efficient) to use TAP interfaces?
That's what I'm going to do as soon as I have time. (Well, Crossbow on Solaris instead of TAP but same idea)
-brian
On Jun 4, 2012, at 5:37, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
I configured a Linux box to automatically fire up VirtualBox from rc.local, and then run a stripped down Linux instance in the VM to run SIMH-VAX.
Point being that I could then access the network interface of the SIMH-VAX from the host running VirtualBox :)
The host also ran decnet-linux..
It was quite nifty, but too heavy-weight for a Pi..
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2012, at 03:06, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Hi Rob,
There may be a super easy way. Try the /etc/rc.local script file. You
can think of it in old MS-DOS/Amiga terms as the AUTOEXEC.BAT or
S:user-startup files. This script usually gets run after the system has
entered muti-user mode and after the networking is up and running. Have
a go running your simh VAX executable from there :)
You can also get fancy with GNU Screen so that it saves and disconnects
the console so you can connect to it after an auto-startup.
Regards,
Al Boyanich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Monday, 4 June 2012 9:45 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?
I got my Raspberry Pi a few days ago too. I too have had few problems,
although for some reason the download of libpcap took an extraordinary
amount of time. I have built the 780 emulation, along with two
modifications
of my own, difference disk files, and a DMC11 emulation.
I am running the Pi now 24 hours a day as my HECnet router (node
VAX780 at
5.8) using the bridge running on a server that I already run 24 hours
a day.
The virtual disk files are stored on the server and I use SMB to
access them
from the Raspberry Pi, partly because the 8GB SD card I planned to use
did
not work and I had to use a 4GB one, partly because I have heard that
SD
performance is poor.
I am not as good on unix these days as I used to be, is there an easy
way to
get SIMH to start up automatically on booting the Pi?
I like the idea of a cluster of Pis, might get a few more at some
point and
try that myself.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson
Sent: 03 June 2012 22:21
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?
On 4 May 2012, at 00:07, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Sampsa:
Interesting. Be sure to set up the idle detection in the simh.ini
for
your appropriate OS (netbsd/TheoLinux/VMS/Ultrix/etc..) or it'll
run
the CPU flat-out all the time and potentially get hot. I'm really
curious to hear how 'hot' the R-Pi's get under load. Mine's still
on
order.
Beautiful idea.
I got my Raspsberry Pi Thursday. It runs SimH 3.9.0 flawlessly under
the
provided Debian Linux 'squeeze' distribution from a SD Card. The I/O
on
the
RPi isn't fantastic from SD Card, it just about manages 5.5MB/s by
most
people's benchmarks which is rather slow.
libpcap and screen are installable from the provided arm6l
repositories so
no
need for compiling those. Once I did that I just downloaded the
source
zip,
unzipped it into a directory and used 'make' to build, just like
normal.
Built
fine and runs perfectly.
PDP-11 simulation is plenty snappy enough running RSX-11M Plus 4.2
on a
simulated 11/83 with 2048kW of RAM. I have DECNet 4.0 (Phase IV)
working
on there too and it works fine.
VAX KA655X simulation is... sluggish. I'm used to running it on
1.xGHz
x86_64
CPUs (Atom or AMD) with fast hard drives or SATA SSD. The CPU speed
makes it slow but imagine it's as fast or faster than a real late
model
VAX. It's
by no means perishingly annoying, it just takes a little thinking
between
operations. I think I may be spoilt as I've never used a real VAX.
Overall so far I'm very impressed with the RasPi and it will fulfil
the
roles I
need for it. When I get hold of a few more I am going to try and
build a
VMS
cluster that uses less than 6W :) I will also have one permanently
running
a
PDP-11 (something that I've not managed since I had my Cobalt Qube2
running) RSX-11MP system.
Oh and CPU Idle works just fine in PDP-11 and VMS-VAX simulations.
To be
honest even when I compiled all the simulator binaries for SimH (as
a
stress
test) and when I was running the SYSGEN in RSX-11M it barely got
much
worse temperature-wise than hot to touch a the CPU. On a board that
only
uses 300mA with no USB and Ethernet active it hardly has a lot of
energy
to
dissipate as heat in the first place!
I'm gonna have a LOT of fun with these :D
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
I configured a Linux box to automatically fire up VirtualBox from rc.local, and then run a stripped down Linux instance in the VM to run SIMH-VAX.
Point being that I could then access the network interface of the SIMH-VAX from the host running VirtualBox :)
The host also ran decnet-linux..
It was quite nifty, but too heavy-weight for a Pi..
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2012, at 03:06, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Hi Rob,
There may be a super easy way. Try the /etc/rc.local script file. You
can think of it in old MS-DOS/Amiga terms as the AUTOEXEC.BAT or
S:user-startup files. This script usually gets run after the system has
entered muti-user mode and after the networking is up and running. Have
a go running your simh VAX executable from there :)
You can also get fancy with GNU Screen so that it saves and disconnects
the console so you can connect to it after an auto-startup.
Regards,
Al Boyanich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Monday, 4 June 2012 9:45 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?
I got my Raspberry Pi a few days ago too. I too have had few problems,
although for some reason the download of libpcap took an extraordinary
amount of time. I have built the 780 emulation, along with two
modifications
of my own, difference disk files, and a DMC11 emulation.
I am running the Pi now 24 hours a day as my HECnet router (node
VAX780 at
5.8) using the bridge running on a server that I already run 24 hours
a day.
The virtual disk files are stored on the server and I use SMB to
access them
from the Raspberry Pi, partly because the 8GB SD card I planned to use
did
not work and I had to use a 4GB one, partly because I have heard that
SD
performance is poor.
I am not as good on unix these days as I used to be, is there an easy
way to
get SIMH to start up automatically on booting the Pi?
I like the idea of a cluster of Pis, might get a few more at some
point and
try that myself.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson
Sent: 03 June 2012 22:21
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?
On 4 May 2012, at 00:07, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Sampsa:
Interesting. Be sure to set up the idle detection in the simh.ini
for
your appropriate OS (netbsd/TheoLinux/VMS/Ultrix/etc..) or it'll
run
the CPU flat-out all the time and potentially get hot. I'm really
curious to hear how 'hot' the R-Pi's get under load. Mine's still
on
order.
Beautiful idea.
I got my Raspsberry Pi Thursday. It runs SimH 3.9.0 flawlessly under
the
provided Debian Linux 'squeeze' distribution from a SD Card. The I/O
on
the
RPi isn't fantastic from SD Card, it just about manages 5.5MB/s by
most
people's benchmarks which is rather slow.
libpcap and screen are installable from the provided arm6l
repositories so
no
need for compiling those. Once I did that I just downloaded the
source
zip,
unzipped it into a directory and used 'make' to build, just like
normal.
Built
fine and runs perfectly.
PDP-11 simulation is plenty snappy enough running RSX-11M Plus 4.2
on a
simulated 11/83 with 2048kW of RAM. I have DECNet 4.0 (Phase IV)
working
on there too and it works fine.
VAX KA655X simulation is... sluggish. I'm used to running it on
1.xGHz
x86_64
CPUs (Atom or AMD) with fast hard drives or SATA SSD. The CPU speed
makes it slow but imagine it's as fast or faster than a real late
model
VAX. It's
by no means perishingly annoying, it just takes a little thinking
between
operations. I think I may be spoilt as I've never used a real VAX.
Overall so far I'm very impressed with the RasPi and it will fulfil
the
roles I
need for it. When I get hold of a few more I am going to try and
build a
VMS
cluster that uses less than 6W :) I will also have one permanently
running
a
PDP-11 (something that I've not managed since I had my Cobalt Qube2
running) RSX-11MP system.
Oh and CPU Idle works just fine in PDP-11 and VMS-VAX simulations.
To be
honest even when I compiled all the simulator binaries for SimH (as
a
stress
test) and when I was running the SYSGEN in RSX-11M it barely got
much
worse temperature-wise than hot to touch a the CPU. On a board that
only
uses 300mA with no USB and Ethernet active it hardly has a lot of
energy
to
dissipate as heat in the first place!
I'm gonna have a LOT of fun with these :D
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Hi Rob,
There may be a super easy way. Try the /etc/rc.local script file. You
can think of it in old MS-DOS/Amiga terms as the AUTOEXEC.BAT or
S:user-startup files. This script usually gets run after the system has
entered muti-user mode and after the networking is up and running. Have
a go running your simh VAX executable from there :)
You can also get fancy with GNU Screen so that it saves and disconnects
the console so you can connect to it after an auto-startup.
Regards,
Al Boyanich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Monday, 4 June 2012 9:45 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?
I got my Raspberry Pi a few days ago too. I too have had few problems,
although for some reason the download of libpcap took an extraordinary
amount of time. I have built the 780 emulation, along with two
modifications
of my own, difference disk files, and a DMC11 emulation.
I am running the Pi now 24 hours a day as my HECnet router (node
VAX780 at
5.8) using the bridge running on a server that I already run 24 hours
a day.
The virtual disk files are stored on the server and I use SMB to
access them
from the Raspberry Pi, partly because the 8GB SD card I planned to use
did
not work and I had to use a 4GB one, partly because I have heard that
SD
performance is poor.
I am not as good on unix these days as I used to be, is there an easy
way to
get SIMH to start up automatically on booting the Pi?
I like the idea of a cluster of Pis, might get a few more at some
point and
try that myself.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson
Sent: 03 June 2012 22:21
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?
On 4 May 2012, at 00:07, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Sampsa:
Interesting. Be sure to set up the idle detection in the simh.ini
for
your appropriate OS (netbsd/TheoLinux/VMS/Ultrix/etc..) or it'll
run
the CPU flat-out all the time and potentially get hot. I'm really
curious to hear how 'hot' the R-Pi's get under load. Mine's still
on
order.
Beautiful idea.
I got my Raspsberry Pi Thursday. It runs SimH 3.9.0 flawlessly under
the
provided Debian Linux 'squeeze' distribution from a SD Card. The I/O
on
the
RPi isn't fantastic from SD Card, it just about manages 5.5MB/s by
most
people's benchmarks which is rather slow.
libpcap and screen are installable from the provided arm6l
repositories so
no
need for compiling those. Once I did that I just downloaded the
source
zip,
unzipped it into a directory and used 'make' to build, just like
normal.
Built
fine and runs perfectly.
PDP-11 simulation is plenty snappy enough running RSX-11M Plus 4.2
on a
simulated 11/83 with 2048kW of RAM. I have DECNet 4.0 (Phase IV)
working
on there too and it works fine.
VAX KA655X simulation is... sluggish. I'm used to running it on
1.xGHz
x86_64
CPUs (Atom or AMD) with fast hard drives or SATA SSD. The CPU speed
makes it slow but imagine it's as fast or faster than a real late
model
VAX. It's
by no means perishingly annoying, it just takes a little thinking
between
operations. I think I may be spoilt as I've never used a real VAX.
Overall so far I'm very impressed with the RasPi and it will fulfil
the
roles I
need for it. When I get hold of a few more I am going to try and
build a
VMS
cluster that uses less than 6W :) I will also have one permanently
running
a
PDP-11 (something that I've not managed since I had my Cobalt Qube2
running) RSX-11MP system.
Oh and CPU Idle works just fine in PDP-11 and VMS-VAX simulations.
To be
honest even when I compiled all the simulator binaries for SimH (as
a
stress
test) and when I was running the SYSGEN in RSX-11M it barely got
much
worse temperature-wise than hot to touch a the CPU. On a board that
only
uses 300mA with no USB and Ethernet active it hardly has a lot of
energy
to
dissipate as heat in the first place!
I'm gonna have a LOT of fun with these :D
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
I got my Raspberry Pi a few days ago too. I too have had few problems,
although for some reason the download of libpcap took an extraordinary
amount of time. I have built the 780 emulation, along with two modifications
of my own, difference disk files, and a DMC11 emulation.
I am running the Pi now 24 hours a day as my HECnet router (node VAX780 at
5.8) using the bridge running on a server that I already run 24 hours a day.
The virtual disk files are stored on the server and I use SMB to access them
from the Raspberry Pi, partly because the 8GB SD card I planned to use did
not work and I had to use a 4GB one, partly because I have heard that SD
performance is poor.
I am not as good on unix these days as I used to be, is there an easy way to
get SIMH to start up automatically on booting the Pi?
I like the idea of a cluster of Pis, might get a few more at some point and
try that myself.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Benson
Sent: 03 June 2012 22:21
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?
On 4 May 2012, at 00:07, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Sampsa:
Interesting. Be sure to set up the idle detection in the simh.ini for
your appropriate OS (netbsd/TheoLinux/VMS/Ultrix/etc..) or it'll run
the CPU flat-out all the time and potentially get hot. I'm really
curious to hear how 'hot' the R-Pi's get under load. Mine's still on
order.
Beautiful idea.
I got my Raspsberry Pi Thursday. It runs SimH 3.9.0 flawlessly under the
provided Debian Linux 'squeeze' distribution from a SD Card. The I/O on
the
RPi isn't fantastic from SD Card, it just about manages 5.5MB/s by most
people's benchmarks which is rather slow.
libpcap and screen are installable from the provided arm6l repositories so
no
need for compiling those. Once I did that I just downloaded the source
zip,
unzipped it into a directory and used 'make' to build, just like normal.
Built
fine and runs perfectly.
PDP-11 simulation is plenty snappy enough running RSX-11M Plus 4.2 on a
simulated 11/83 with 2048kW of RAM. I have DECNet 4.0 (Phase IV) working
on there too and it works fine.
VAX KA655X simulation is... sluggish. I'm used to running it on 1.xGHz
x86_64
CPUs (Atom or AMD) with fast hard drives or SATA SSD. The CPU speed
makes it slow but imagine it's as fast or faster than a real late model
VAX. It's
by no means perishingly annoying, it just takes a little thinking between
operations. I think I may be spoilt as I've never used a real VAX.
Overall so far I'm very impressed with the RasPi and it will fulfil the
roles I
need for it. When I get hold of a few more I am going to try and build a
VMS
cluster that uses less than 6W :) I will also have one permanently running
a
PDP-11 (something that I've not managed since I had my Cobalt Qube2
running) RSX-11MP system.
Oh and CPU Idle works just fine in PDP-11 and VMS-VAX simulations. To be
honest even when I compiled all the simulator binaries for SimH (as a
stress
test) and when I was running the SYSGEN in RSX-11M it barely got much
worse temperature-wise than hot to touch a the CPU. On a board that only
uses 300mA with no USB and Ethernet active it hardly has a lot of energy
to
dissipate as heat in the first place!
I'm gonna have a LOT of fun with these :D
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
