On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 12:17:23AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
FYI - Update now have a Cisco box, which will be setup within a few
days to be able to route DECnet over IP, so that will become another
options to hook into HECnet at the Update site.
Sorry that I haven't gotten arround to it sooner. Update is preparing an
exhibiton at the University Museum. Lots of work with that :)
I can't promise getting the Cisco installed this week, but I'll see what
I can do.
I can however recommend anyone being close to uppsala this summer to
take a tour past Gustavianum to look at some nice DEC (and other)
hardware. Here is a hilight of the objects:
DECSYSTEM-2060
PDP-12
PDP-11/70
PDP-8
CRAY YMP EL
DG NOVA 3
peripherals!
Cheers,
Pontus.
On 06/05/2012 08:50 AM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
Something got messed up, I did some clear operations on the permanent database and
now I don't remember how to make it work again.....
Anyone that can give me a hint? Its VMS 5.4 on a uvax2
NCP>purge known lines
All line parameters (Y, N): y
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Line = QNA-0
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Line = QNA-1
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
How do I put QNA-0 and QNA-1 back in to decnet?
NCP>purge known obje
All parameters (Y, N): y
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = TASK
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = MAIL
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = PHONE
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = NML
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = MIRROR
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = VPM
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
How do I put those objects back?
Eeeeek! This may be a "shotgun" approach, but to be on the safe side
I'd just run netconfig (@sys$manager:netconfig) and have it generate the
databases anew.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Something got messed up, I did some clear operations on the permanent database and
now I don't remember how to make it work again.....
Anyone that can give me a hint? Its VMS 5.4 on a uvax2
NCP>purge known lines
All line parameters (Y, N): y
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Line = QNA-0
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Line = QNA-1
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
How do I put QNA-0 and QNA-1 back in to decnet?
NCP>purge known obje
All parameters (Y, N): y
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = TASK
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = MAIL
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = PHONE
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = NML
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = MIRROR
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
%NCP-I-SUCCESS, Success
Object = VPM
%NML-I-RECDELET, Database entry deleted
How do I put those objects back?
--P
40 VUPs.
Nice! ~ the same then.
Oh yes, I'll bet! And keep in mind it's not just the CPU speed but
the memory bandwidth. It really sped up during that era.
True. Even just using the 4000-m90 for simple numerical problems, it's
quite slippery.
Sadly, no VPU though.
I WANT WANT WANT a 6000-500 with a vector board. It's a shame that
VAX 6000s have dried up so quickly. I must've passed up thirty of
them
over the past fifteen years. I'm getting a 6300 next month from a
semi-local guy. That'll be nice, but no vector boards for that model.
Will keep an eye out. I'd love a 6000 also, but doubt I could power it.
Not aware of the vector board. I did do an mp3 decoding routine using
Rigel's VPU back in '99 on a bet for beer. Was the 6000/500 VPU just
Rigels or something else?
Al
On 06/04/2012 11:40 PM, Boyanich, Alastair wrote:
Some of them are downright zippy. I'll have a VAX 7000 and a
4000-700a on HECnet soon! Zoom!
Dave: Nice. What's the 4000-700a pull VUP wise?
40 VUPs.
I was *VERY* shocked
going from a 4000-m300 "Pele" at 8VUPS to the 4000-m90A at 38VUPS. It's
like greased lightening by comparison.
Oh yes, I'll bet! And keep in mind it's not just the CPU speed but
the memory bandwidth. It really sped up during that era.
Sadly, no VPU though.
I WANT WANT WANT a 6000-500 with a vector board. It's a shame that
VAX 6000s have dried up so quickly. I must've passed up thirty of them
over the past fifteen years. I'm getting a 6300 next month from a
semi-local guy. That'll be nice, but no vector boards for that model.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Some of them are downright zippy. I'll have a VAX 7000 and a
4000-700a on HECnet soon! Zoom!
Dave: Nice. What's the 4000-700a pull VUP wise? I was *VERY* shocked
going from a 4000-m300 "Pele" at 8VUPS to the 4000-m90A at 38VUPS. It's
like greased lightening by comparison. Sadly, no VPU though.
Al.
On 2012-06-05 04:44, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-05 03:24, Steve Davidson wrote:
Paul,
I think that depends on whether or not the idle loop pattern (for the
console light display) is being used. The lights pattern most certainly
makes use of the WAIT instruction. The SJ monitor is a completely
different beast than FB and friends - no question about it!
Well, there are more ways to spin a cat... Or spin the lights in this
case. WAIT is one way to show something on the front panel. Loading the
display register is another.
RT-11 is in fact using the Switch Register at 177570 to display things
on the front panel.
Look at RMONFB.MAC, around line 4800, to see the code.
(Every time I read the RT-11 sources, I feel a little dirty... No
offense meant for the RT-11 fans around here or anywhere.)
It's all conditionalized on LIGH$T, and there is not even the option if
you are running the SJ monitor...
Aw, heck. I might as well post the code, since isn't that long...
====
3$:
.IF NE LIGH$T
.ROM DEC LITECT,VALUE=1
BNE 8$
ADD #512.,LITECT
4$: ROL 7$
BNE 5$
COM 7$
5$: BCC 6$
ADD #100,4$
BIC #200,4$
6$: BIT #LIGHT$,CONFG2
BEQ 8$
MOV (PC)+,@(PC)+
7$: .WORD 0,SR
.ENDC
8$:
..NULJ::
====
(And yes, SR is defined as 177570)
(And maybe you understand why I feel dirty when reading RT-11 after this fine example of code... It's cut-and-pasted right from the source, it really looks just like this.)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-06-05 03:24, Steve Davidson wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 20:58
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Speaking of IDLE
On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-04 13:52, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it
working on Solaris.
Simple. For a VAX, simh tries to detect the instruction
sequence that the OS do in the idle loop. That's why it
depends on which OS you are running on the emulated machine.
For a PDP-11 it is (supposedly) simpler, since hopefully
the idle loop
of the OS uses the PDP-11 WAIT instruction, but that
actually depends
on which OS we're talking about. Not sure that RT-11 do,
for instance.
(I have some vague memory of discussing this with someone a
few years
ago, and coming to the realization that not all PDP-11
software might
be using the WAIT.)
For other hardware and OS combinations, the answers might
differ even more.
The doc says that RT and Unix do it differently (no WAIT). I
haven't seen the Unix code but I did see the one for RT (F/B
version), and indeed, no WAIT instruction there. I'm not
sure why not. RT11 S/J seems to just be full of spin loops,
no central idle of any kind that I can see.
paul
Paul,
I think that depends on whether or not the idle loop pattern (for the
console light display) is being used. The lights pattern most certainly
makes use of the WAIT instruction. The SJ monitor is a completely
different beast than FB and friends - no question about it!
Well, there are more ways to spin a cat... Or spin the lights in this case. WAIT is one way to show something on the front panel. Loading the display register is another.
RT-11 is in fact using the Switch Register at 177570 to display things on the front panel.
Look at RMONFB.MAC, around line 4800, to see the code.
(Every time I read the RT-11 sources, I feel a little dirty... No offense meant for the RT-11 fans around here or anywhere.)
It's all conditionalized on LIGH$T, and there is not even the option if you are running the SJ monitor...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-06-05 03:50, Peter Lothberg wrote:
For people who don't need LAT and have a Cisco box, this is way better
than the bridge program.
(If you really want LAT with other parts of HECnet, then there is no
alternative to the bridge...)
You can bridge LAT with the cisco box... -:) ((It might even HELP you
with LAT over WAN....)) (And it can act as a LAT termianl server)
Nice. I did not know that. That's even better. Will it just bridge the protocols you ask for, or will it do them all? Hmm, I assume it's using GRE for this?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-06-05 02:57, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-04 13:52, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it working on Solaris.
Simple. For a VAX, simh tries to detect the instruction sequence that the OS do in the idle loop. That's why it depends on which OS you are running on the emulated machine.
For a PDP-11 it is (supposedly) simpler, since hopefully the idle loop of the OS uses the PDP-11 WAIT instruction, but that actually depends on which OS we're talking about. Not sure that RT-11 do, for instance. (I have some vague memory of discussing this with someone a few years ago, and coming to the realization that not all PDP-11 software might be using the WAIT.)
For other hardware and OS combinations, the answers might differ even more.
The doc says that RT and Unix do it differently (no WAIT). I haven't seen the Unix code but I did see the one for RT (F/B version), and indeed, no WAIT instruction there. I'm not sure why not. RT11 S/J seems to just be full of spin loops, no central idle of any kind that I can see.
Right. I think my discussion with whomever it was actually centered around RT-11 and Unix. I had to go digging in the Unix code (since I have been playing quite a lot with 2.11BSD), and the information is incorrect on Unix. I searched all the way back to 7th edition (if I remember right), and Unix on the PDP-11 is using WAIT, and always have been. If anyone can find any other pointers to any Unix not using WAIT, I'm always interested in hearing. Since I normally only play with 2.11BSD with all kind of patches, I might definitely have missed something in past history.
But thanks on the confirmation for RT-11. I seemed to remember having checked that one and not found any WAIT, but I was way too unsure to claim anything.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
