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Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 04/08/2012, a les 19:54, hvlems at zonnet.nl va escriure: The -CT for sure won't work with amulator. The -ST might provided the control unit is emulated and talks may be to a parallel (seriel ?) Interface on the host? ------Origineel bericht------ Well, Hercules emulates a CTCT (Channel-to-Channel) connection via TCP sockets which allows to connect two Hercules instances. Now, if anyone is up to develop a channel adapter in the simh side... :) Anyway, according to the Hercules docs: "Note: CTCT currently only supports IP traffic, so it cannot be used to transport NJE, SNA, PVM, etc. type payloads. This may change in the future." So it won't probably work even having a pair in SIMH. As for the -ST version, this could be encouraging: "( Preliminary 2703 BSC Support ) Describes a BSC emulation line entry to either link 2 Hercules engines or a custom made program emulating a 2780, 3780 or 3x74, or a custom made program interfacing to a real BSC line. The communication is emulated over a TCP connection. All bytes are transfered as-is (except for doubling DLE in transparent mode) just like it would over a real BSC link. Emulated EIA (DCD, DTR, CTS, etc..) or X.21/V.11 leads (C, T, etc..) are treated differently depending on the DIAL option selected. The line emulates a point-to-point BSC link. There is no point-to-multipoint handling." Again, my MVS expertise lies far away from net/comms, so I'm not sure if this could do the trick. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by HECNET＠beyondthepale.ie

For various reasons to do with my general mental stability etc, I decided to learn about IBM mainframes, so got one running.. Any way to connect this to DECnet? Maybe over over DECNet-OSI since the thing natively does VTAM? Details: http://sampsa.com/2012/08/04/mvs-on-an-s390-because-openvms-is-just-too-eas… But what are you running Hercules on? I've got Hercules running under VMS on an Alpha. Whatever it says about my mental stability, I can even get it to crawl along on VAX/VMS. I'm running VM/370 and MUSIC under Hercules but neither knows anything about DECnet so even though Hercules is running on machines attached to HECnet, I'm no closer to being able to connect to or interact with either OS over HECnet. I've seen enough of DECnet-OSI at work to know I am not really interested in trying to use it. Regards, Peter Coghlan.

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

The -CT for sure won't work with amulator. The -ST might provided the control unit is emulated and talks may be to a parallel (seriel ?) Interface on the host? ------Origineel bericht------ Van: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet? Verzonden: 4 augustus 2012 19:13 El 04/08/2012, a les 14:53, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> va escriure: How about the SNA gateway, which DEC built just for that need? It was a software + hardware solution. I don't think you can connect that to an emulator... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 04/08/2012, a les 19:16, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: Found the torrent :) It's 16 gigs lol. I've just remembered you don't really need the DIST volumes. Those hold the original install SMP/E kits, which I guess you won't use :) Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 04/08/2012, a les 19:13, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: Searched the piratebay, but no luck. Got any other pointers? I think I found it in the eMule network. For educational/research purposes only, of course... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 04/08/2012, a les 14:53, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> va escriure: How about the SNA gateway, which DEC built just for that need? It was a software + hardware solution. I don't think you can connect that to an emulator... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 04/08/2012, a les 19:07, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: On 4 Aug 2012, at 20:04, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: Of course, there are... hrrr... alternatives to MVS3.8J. But they are not legal to run in Hercules. Technically, you can fire up a modern z/OS system, with full TCP/IP support on Hercules. But don't tell IBM about that ;) Got a copy? I'll keep shtum..:) Yup, but its something like 6-7 GB IIRC :) Just search in the usual, shaddy places for "IBM ADCD" Note, ADCD, not like the austalian rock band! You'll need to download a bunch of virtual 3390 drives and you'll get a working z/OS 1.10 system, with all the toys you need (DB2, IMS, CICS, PLI and COBOL compilers, tools...) ;) Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 04/08/2012, a les 12:38, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: For various reasons to do with my general mental stability etc, I decided to learn about IBM mainframes, so got one running.. I used to be a MVS systems programmer :) Unfortunately, my specialisation was not networking/communications, but perhaps I can help a little bit... Any way to connect this to DECnet? Maybe over over DECNet-OSI since the thing natively does VTAM? Are you using the "public domain" MVS3.8J available in the net? That's quite old. No TCP/IP support. Just plain old SNA/VTAM. At those days you needed special hardware to talk to IBM machines. They just didn't speak ethernet. I don't think even if you had a working 3745 you could attach it to an Hercules emulator. So I'm afraid there is no joy. You _could_ be able to use part of DECNET/SNA to do open a 3270 session from your VAX, if it can be directed to use a telnet port. Hercules exposes its virtual 3270 controllers thru telnet, so that could be a possibility. Of course, there are... hrrr... alternatives to MVS3.8J. But they are not legal to run in Hercules. Technically, you can fire up a modern z/OS system, with full TCP/IP support on Hercules. But don't tell IBM about that ;) Details: http://sampsa.com/2012/08/04/mvs-on-an-s390-because-openvms-is-just-too-eas… That distribution comes without the butter and bread of MVS. You get just native TSO (yuck!) and a replacement for the "real thing" (that is, ISPF/PDF) called RPF. If you go thru the books you'll be lost, since they talk about the IBM tools which come with ISPF. Specifically, the editor. RPF comes close to it, but it is different enough so the TSO/ISPF books won't help you. The best way to edit/manage files in that 3.8J emulated system would be using the card reader / card punch emulation to put in and get out files. As for "datasets", here comes a crash course: - MVS does not have a "proper" filesystem. Each disk ("volume", in IBM-esse) has its own table of contents (VTOC), which contains the files resident at that volume. The files in a disk or tape are called "data sets". When you open a dataset from a program, then it is a "file". The "files" and "data sets" are related using JCL thru "DDNAMES" or "Data Set Names". Think about them as some kind of logical names. - Each "dataset" has a name which can be up to 43 characters long. The names are formed attaching parts of up to 8 characters long, separated by dots. The characters can be any alphanumeric byte (excepting for the first one in each 8-byte part, which has to be an alphabetic character). All of this in EBCDIC, of course. Exammples: SYS1.PROCLIB MYFILES.SOURCES.COBOL MYFILES.LOAD THIS.IS.AN.ABSURDEL.Y.LONG.NAME And so on... - There is an indexed file (actually, a set of logically linked VSAM KSDS files) which _could_ contain all the datasets known to the system, correlated to the volumes where they reside (including tapes), called CATALOG. In more modern versions of MVS the system programmer (system manager) can enforce that every permanent file MUST be referenced in that catalog. - There is a special kind of data set, named "PDS", or "Partitioned Data Set". That dataset can have "members" inside, and has a directory to list its members. The member name goes after the dataset name inside parenthesis: MYFILES.SOURCES.ASM(MYPROG) This is the way source and load (executable files) are usually managed in the mainframe environment. You use the ISPF utilities to allocate and create the library (as PDS are also known) and then use the editor to create/modify the members. The ISPF panels (screens) to edit, compile, linkedit and run programs are prepared to manage libraries and allow you to browse the library directory using the usual wildcards. Of course, you probably already know all this stuff :) Anyway, if you need help, email me and I'll try to assist you. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES PS: I have lost connectivity to UPDATE again. And this time rebooting my router didn't fix it... Any other one in the same situation?

13 years, 4 months

Managed to get an emulated S/390 with MVS up - any way we can get this beast onto HECnet?

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: For various reasons to do with my general mental stability etc, I decided to learn about IBM mainframes, so got one running.. Any way to connect this to DECnet? Maybe over over DECNet-OSI since the thing natively does VTAM? Details: http://sampsa.com/2012/08/04/mvs-on-an-s390-because-openvms-is-just-too-eas… Hello! Sampsa nice going so far back there on that list. Next step will be joining the H390-MVS list to further your studies and to ask the right questions. I run that one so you're in good company. There's also a very unhappy crowd of yetis around you by the way, they lost a bet..... ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

13 years, 4 months

MVS and DecNet

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

DEC had two hardware solutions. The channel attached gateway and a gateway that used a serial interface. The -CT was the size of a VAX 4500, the -ST the size of a LANbridge 100 (to give you an idea). The advantage of the -CT over the -ST was the simultaneous sessions it supported, 1024 vs 256. Important if one used RJE stations because each RJE station used at least one cardreader, console and printer session. I thinks the cardpunch was optional but if you needed more output streams it was useful. The -CT connected to ethernet and connected to just one IBM host via its channel interface. All systems that supported the SNA/DECnet package could set up sessions to the -CT and thus the IBM. The -ST was kind of point to point: serial to the IBM and synchronous to the VAX host. (IIRC ..) The IBM used SNA on either DOS/VSE or MVS. The latter also supported access to its filesystem, so $ DIR IBM::*.* was possible. An additional SNA gateway software product was required. The 3174 emulation was for terminals, it was implemented with yet another box. I forgot which one. It connected to a control unit and the serial backend was hard wired to two DECservers 200 that offered the (reverse) LAT service IBM to the ethernet. Worked a lot better than 3174 emulation on token ring connected Novell pc's. (All this happened between 1988 and 1994). In those days DECnet was the lingua franca on the LAN. Phase 4. No way phase 5 could talk directly to VTAM. The hardware gateway products only implemented phase 4. There was an SNA product that ran natively on a VMS system, it used a DMF32 to connect to the IBM (at least my memory thinks it was a DMF32. May just as well have been something else :-) . Same functionality as the -ST without the DEMSA box. Hans ------Origineel bericht------ Van: Sterling Garwood Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Aan: Sampsa Laine Cc: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] MVS and DecNet Verzonden: 4 augustus 2012 16:35 Saw your note on Hecnet about MVS and DecNet I've run MVS 3.8J on Hercules for years on Macs and PCs (usually on Linux) ISTR that DEC had an interface that sat on the IBM channel and looked like a 3274 control unit --- I also remember going to a demo at DEC late in their life and watching the product crash over and over :-) The place I worked ended up installing TCPIP on the 370s to talk to the Vaxen - I believe it was a port of the Stanford or UCLA code (don't remember which). Anyone who needed terminal access to the mainframe went thru the Vax that was the gateway. Sterling Garwood slgarwood at charter.net

13 years, 4 months

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