HECnet

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15559 discussions

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-10-29 15:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Oct 29, 2012, at 3:26 AM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 29/10/2012, a les 8:07, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> va escriure: Going from RSTS/E to VMS via "SET HOST 61.2" gives me this: --------------------------------------------- $ set host 61.2 Connection Established to VAX/VMS Node 61.2 ?Unsupported Virtual Terminal Protocol. I don't think you can use RTERM as an incoming protocol. And since you can't use it outgoing (from the Alpha) I guess it has been removed from Alpha VMS too... There are two generations of terminal protocol (not counting LAT). The newer of the two is Cterm, which is very large and very complicated. VMS supports it, RSTS doesn't. (I forgot if RSX does.) RSX do. But there are issues, but mostly it works well enough to be at least usable... The earlier one doesn't have a name as far as I remember. Also, it isn't one protocol; instead, it's a separate protocol for each destination OS type. The VMS and RSX flavors roughly correspond to the terminal QIO operations, you could think of them as a sort of RPC. The RSTS one is a bit like telnet in that it comes with a simple line mode and a raw character mode. The TOPS-20 one is just raw character mode. All of these use the same DECnet object number, the distinction between the different protocols is made when you connect. Right. The RSX flavor is rather weird in that the I/O is done locally as whole I/O operations. Comparing it with RPC is probably a good way to explain it, as far as I can tell. RSX have separate application for connecting to RSTS/E (RRS), TOPS-20 (HOST) and RSX (RMT), but they are all in the "unsupported tasks" category. Also, the application installed on RSTS by default for Set Host ("net") is the RSTS-only subject of the older protocol. The message you see comes from that application. You need to install the "unsupported" multi-OS version ("netuns"). With that in place, it should be able to talk to any OS. If VMS didn't have the older protocol listener in place, you'd get a different error message: a failure to connect due to the DECnet object not being defined at the destination. "Unknown object" or something similar, I would think. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 7 months

rebuild RSTS/E monitor, was Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 and OpenVMS via DECnet

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Oct 28, 2012, at 7:34 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 10/28/2012 07:31 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Got it reinstalled it still doesn't work the way you said to do it, but doing it through @[0,1]instal works so i'll just use that route any time I need to build a monitor Urr? You did a CLEAN install on a blank destination disk? From the tape image that I gave you? I just did it that way.. How might I go about adding "users" in RSTS/E? $ CREATE/ACCOUNT (see "help create /account") Note: An "account" under RSTS/E can mean a "user account" that gets logged into, or just a "directory". That can be confusing. Just bear that in mind as you read. Originally, there wasn't any such thing as a directory (on the system disk, that is) that wasn't available for login. So it was called an "account". Somewhere around V8 or V9, the notion of a "no-user account" was added, which is somewhat like you find on Unix when the password is set to "*" -- you have a directory and possibly some other attributes like a name, but no password and no other user-related attributes like quotas, so you can't log in. There's "create/account" and "create/account/nouser". If you create an "account" on a non-system disk, it's no-user by default. Also, accounts with group number 0 -- like [0,200] -- are always no-user; group 0 is restricted that way. paul

12 years, 7 months

DECnet VMS <-> RSTS/E

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Oct 29, 2012, at 3:26 AM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 29/10/2012, a les 8:07, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> va escriure: Going from RSTS/E to VMS via "SET HOST 61.2" gives me this: --------------------------------------------- $ set host 61.2 Connection Established to VAX/VMS Node 61.2 ?Unsupported Virtual Terminal Protocol. I don't think you can use RTERM as an incoming protocol. And since you can't use it outgoing (from the Alpha) I guess it has been removed from Alpha VMS too... There are two generations of terminal protocol (not counting LAT). The newer of the two is Cterm, which is very large and very complicated. VMS supports it, RSTS doesn't. (I forgot if RSX does.) The earlier one doesn't have a name as far as I remember. Also, it isn't one protocol; instead, it's a separate protocol for each destination OS type. The VMS and RSX flavors roughly correspond to the terminal QIO operations, you could think of them as a sort of RPC. The RSTS one is a bit like telnet in that it comes with a simple line mode and a raw character mode. The TOPS-20 one is just raw character mode. All of these use the same DECnet object number, the distinction between the different protocols is made when you connect. Also, the application installed on RSTS by default for Set Host ("net") is the RSTS-only subject of the older protocol. The message you see comes from that application. You need to install the "unsupported" multi-OS version ("netuns"). With that in place, it should be able to talk to any OS. If VMS didn't have the older protocol listener in place, you'd get a different error message: a failure to connect due to the DECnet object not being defined at the destination. paul

12 years, 7 months

rebuild RSTS/E monitor, was Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 and OpenVMS via DECnet

by b4＠gewt.net

On 29 Oct 2012, at 03:30, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 29/10/2012, a les 1:38, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure: As that could take some time, have any experience with DECnet and TOPS-20 in klh10? I read the documentation for it but it wasn't particularly helpful with regards to the networking "fronted" klh10 emulates, and I can't exactly load the executor config stuff to bring the node and circuit online. It works mostly "out of the box" with the Panda distribution. You have to fiddle a little bit with the configuration file but IIRC it is pretty straightforward. I'll check it when I get access to my machine. Or you can check it yourself SET HOSTing to BITXT2 in HECnet. Unknown node, what's its address? Could you explain what you did to configure it?

12 years, 7 months

DECnet VMS <-> RSTS/E

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/29/2012 03:26 AM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: Going from RSTS/E to VMS via "SET HOST 61.2" gives me this: --------------------------------------------- $ set host 61.2 Connection Established to VAX/VMS Node 61.2 ?Unsupported Virtual Terminal Protocol. I don't think you can use RTERM as an incoming protocol. And since you can't use it outgoing (from the Alpha) I guess it has been removed from Alpha VMS too... I don't think it has been removed...it seems to be just plain crashing. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 7 months

rebuild RSTS/E monitor, was Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 and OpenVMS via DECnet

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 29/10/2012, a les 1:38, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure: As that could take some time, have any experience with DECnet and TOPS-20 in klh10? I read the documentation for it but it wasn't particularly helpful with regards to the networking "fronted" klh10 emulates, and I can't exactly load the executor config stuff to bring the node and circuit online. It works mostly "out of the box" with the Panda distribution. You have to fiddle a little bit with the configuration file but IIRC it is pretty straightforward. I'll check it when I get access to my machine. Or you can check it yourself SET HOSTing to BITXT2 in HECnet.

12 years, 7 months

DECnet VMS <-> RSTS/E

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 29/10/2012, a les 8:07, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> va escriure: Going from RSTS/E to VMS via "SET HOST 61.2" gives me this: --------------------------------------------- $ set host 61.2 Connection Established to VAX/VMS Node 61.2 ?Unsupported Virtual Terminal Protocol. I don't think you can use RTERM as an incoming protocol. And since you can't use it outgoing (from the Alpha) I guess it has been removed from Alpha VMS too... The only "solution" I can think about is to use a simulated VAX to SET HOST into the RSTS machine, or to stick to LAT. But that would work just in one direction.

12 years, 7 months

DECnet VMS <-> RSTS/E

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Hi guys. I fired up a (real hardware) PDP-11 tonight and did some DECnet testing between it and my up-24/7 Alpha. The systems are a DS10L running VMS v8.3 node 61.2 (AXPEE), and a PDP-11/53 running RSTS/E v10.1 and DECnet/E v4.1, node 61.4 (MECCA). Going from VMS to RSTS/E via "SET HOST/APP=RTERM 61.4" gives me the same crash as was reported earlier. Going from RSTS/E to VMS via "SET HOST 61.2" gives me this: --------------------------------------------- $ set host 61.2 Connection Established to VAX/VMS Node 61.2 ?Unsupported Virtual Terminal Protocol. Control returned to node MECCA --------------------------------------------- Note: File operations work bidirectionally without difficulty. I log into the PDP-11 from my desktop via LAT using the "llogin" command, as I have LAT running on the PDP-11. I can also reach the Alpha via LAT. I don't know how to establish an outbound LAT connection in RSTS/E (and it's getting late) so I haven't tried that. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 7 months

rebuild RSTS/E monitor, was Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 and OpenVMS via DECnet

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 10/28/2012 08:57 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Got it reinstalled it still doesn't work the way you said to do it, but doing it through @[0,1]instal works so i'll just use that route any time I need to build a monitor On that note...are you sure that you set the logicals that I told you about in my first message about this? $ assign/system sy:[0,12] sysgen$$ $ assign/system sy:[0,1] system$$ After assigning the logicals it works fine. Seems I forgot to set them last time I tried. Oops. Ahh ok. Mystery solved. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 7 months

rebuild RSTS/E monitor, was Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 and OpenVMS via DECnet

by b4＠gewt.net

On Oct 28, 2012, at 8:53 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 10/28/2012 08:22 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: Got it reinstalled it still doesn't work the way you said to do it, but doing it through @[0,1]instal works so i'll just use that route any time I need to build a monitor On that note...are you sure that you set the logicals that I told you about in my first message about this? $ assign/system sy:[0,12] sysgen$$ $ assign/system sy:[0,1] system$$ After assigning the logicals it works fine. Seems I forgot to set them last time I tried. Oops. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 7 months

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