HECnet February 2022

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

17 participants
13 discussions

by Johnny Billquist

Seems to not work anymore. Not sure if it is permanent. But anyway, for anyone wanting to reach Mim, as has been announced before, she's still available as Mim.Stupi.NET. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

2 years, 9 months

Mailman Question When Using a Forwarding Service

by Rob Jarratt

Hello Everyone, Are there any Mailman experts here? The way I use my email addresses is that I have an email address provided by my ISP (Robert.jarratt(a)ntlworld.com <mailto:Robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com> ), but I use an email forwarding service to forward rob(a)jarratt.me.uk <mailto:rob@jarratt.me.uk> to my ISP mailbox. This means that I can receive email sent to rob(a)jarratt.me.uk <mailto:rob@jarratt.me.uk> , but any email I send comes from Robert.jarratt(a)ntlworld.com <mailto:Robert.jarratt@ntlworld.com> . I do put rob(a)jarratt.me.uk <mailto:rob@jarratt.me.uk> in the reply-to. Can Mailman be configured to accept emails from my outbound address, but send them to my forwarding address? I would like to do this for my subscription to the HECnet list, if possible. If I can't then so be it, but I thought it worth asking. Thanks Rob

2 years, 9 months

Re: [Hecnet] HECnet mail list move

by Rob Jarratt

Hello Johnny, I am not sure if I did get two copies of this email so I don't know if I am on the new system. I don't remember what email I would be registered under, it will either be rob(a)jarratt.me.uk (preferred) or Robert.jarratt(a)ntlworld.com. I don't want to create an account to manage myself until I know which email (if any) I am registered with in the new system. Would you mind checking for me please? Thanks Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)softjar.se> > Sent: 21 January 2022 01:10 > To: hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se; hecnet(a)Update.UU.SE > Subject: [Hecnet] HECnet mail list move > > Ok. Since I'm a busy (and lazy) bum, this have taken way more time that it > should have. > > But here it is. The HECnet mailing list is moving. It has to. > First of all, hats off, thanks, and apologies to Bob Armstrong and Dave > McGuire. They both offered to help move the mailing list, and put time into > it. Unfortunately, I've not had time to really work on it, and in the end the > people at Update also worked on migrating all other stuff that was running > there, which included various other mailing lists as well, so the HECnet > mailing list was more or less able to be moved without any work on my part, > except for some tweaks to settings. > > So while much of Update is, for the time being, turned off, the mailing list can > live on. > > The address do change, however. As you can see. The new address is: > > hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se > > This is now running under mailman, which do mean that there is a web > interface for people to control their subscriptions, as well as the possibility of > digests and archives going forward. > > All current subscribers are already subscribed at the new address. If anyone > disagrees with that, they can unsubscribe, or let me know and I'll unsubscribe > them. > > I'm sending this mail to both the old and new list, so everyone should get two > copies of this mail. If you are not, check possible spam boxes, and let me > know if I should investigate something on my side. > > The web page for the list is: > https://lists.dfupdate.se/postorius/lists/hecnet.lists.dfupdate.se/ > (I think I got that right, let me know otherwise) > > Johnny > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > _______________________________________________ > Hecnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se To unsubscribe send an email > to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se

2 years, 9 months

Weird microcode bug in the 11/60 CPU

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

Johnny; I would be interested in hearing more about this (or any) 11/60 microcode bug :->! And how the OS (which?) worked around it. >>> Subject: [HECnet] Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->diagnosticZKGAB0for KG11 runs without complaints. ..... There is a weird microcode bug in the 11/60 CPU, which force the OS do so some silly things in general, in order to run correctly one that one CPU. Things that are just wasting a few cycles on all other CPUs. I bet DEC had fun figuring that one out... (I don't remember the exact details now, but I could go in and read the code to find out again, if needed, unless someone else remember the specifics.) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)softjar.se <mailto:bqt@softjar.se> || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol _______________________________________________ HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se <mailto:hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se> To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se <mailto:hecnet-leave@lists.dfupdate.se>

2 years, 9 months

DEC hardware for grabs in NL

by Wilm Boerhout

A friend of mine has a bunch of hardware that needs a new home. No charge, but it has to be picked up in Zoetermeer, The Netherlands. He asked me to post it here, if you are interested I will get him to contact you. Rgds, Wilm Servers * AlphaServer 1000A * Power supply defect, stops 1 sec after sdtartup * Status unknown * DEC 2000 Model 300 AXP, aka DECpcAXP150, aka Jensen * working (front panel damaged) * Internal disk RZ28B (2.1 G) * Internal disk RZ26L (1.05 G) * RRD44 CD drive * RX26 floppy drive, not working Storage Shelves * 2x BA356-RC (blue) * 1x BA356-SB (beige) * 5x Power supply * 2x I/O module BA35X-MH (70-31490-01) * 1x I/O module BA35X-MG * 1x BN21W-0B Y-connector Disks * 6x RZ1FC-VW (36.4 G) * 4x RZ1ED/EF-VW (18.2 G) * 3x RZ1DA/DB-VW (9.1 G) * 11x RZ1CB/CF-VW (4.3 G) * 4x RZ29B-VA/VW (4.3 G) * 2x RZ28-VA (2.1 G) Tape Drives * 1x TZ89, rack mount * 2x TZ88 rack mount

2 years, 9 months

Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->solved (by Paul as it is) --> from the KG11 drawings; issue closed

by R. Voorhorst

Actually, the wiring is slightly more complex as the counter is reset by the bus init signal on the clr inputs, however the load signal presets the counter to a value depending on the selected polynomial. The counting in hardware is even more complex as the counter is a 1 bit binary counter combined with a 3 bit binary counter to cover the range from 8 to 12 to 16 steps clocking and varying between 10 Mhz and single stepping to develop the Done flag setting which freezes the clock generator which is a gated oscillator. But since the implementation of Simh does not follow the hardware but only replaces it with a functional equivalent, the software counting is implemented differently and then it suffices to clear the pulsecnt variable per the second proposed solution. Reindert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koning [mailto:paulkoning@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, 02 February, 2022 15:44 To: Reindert Voorhorst <R.Voorhorst(a)swabhawat.com> Cc: HECnet <hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se> Subject: Re: [HECnet] KG11 emulation probably defective -->solved (by Paul as it is) > On Feb 2, 2022, at 4:09 AM, R. Voorhorst <R.Voorhorst(a)swabhawat.com> wrote: > > L.S. > > So in the end I had little to do J (thanks Paul and Johnny), and the updated code by Paul fixes the problem and yes, the diagnostics still complete without complaint. A check of the engineering drawings should verify/confirm how the pulse count is actually terminated/reset in hardware. From the manual (which reproduces a bit of the schematic in support) the more precise definition is that the counter is reset by a data register load. That would make a difference in observable behavior if single step mode is used: DONE would come on after the correct number of single step operations. I'll submit a PR with that version. Thanks Reindert for verifying the fix. paul

2 years, 9 months

PyDECnet T1.1

by Paul Koning

I've put the beta PyDECnet T1.1 up on area router PYTHON. That will make a more interesting test than the previous one (which was to have it running on 28NH, the HECnet mapper). It seems to be working ok, but if anyone sees strange behavior that might be connected to this node, please let me know. The code should be faster, significantly so in a few spots. I suspect that won't be all that noticeable in practice. It should also have some bugs fixed. Among them are some NICE protocol issues: there were problems with reporting adjacent node information some of the time, those should be gone in this code. paul

2 years, 9 months

Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->solved (by Paul as it is) --> update

by R. Voorhorst

L.S. As the proposed fix by Paul is now in line with the hardware in the drawings, but differs from the initial one he proposed and I tested, I retested it with diagnostics XXDP:ZKGAB0 and real time behaviour and that works as well. Reindert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koning [mailto:paulkoning@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, 02 February, 2022 15:44 To: Reindert Voorhorst <R.Voorhorst(a)swabhawat.com> Cc: HECnet <hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se> Subject: [HECnet] Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->solved (by Paul as it is) > On Feb 2, 2022, at 4:09 AM, R. Voorhorst <R.Voorhorst(a)swabhawat.com> wrote: > > L.S. > > So in the end I had little to do J (thanks Paul and Johnny), and the updated code by Paul fixes the problem and yes, the diagnostics still complete without complaint. A check of the engineering drawings should verify/confirm how the pulse count is actually terminated/reset in hardware. From the manual (which reproduces a bit of the schematic in support) the more precise definition is that the counter is reset by a data register load. That would make a difference in observable behavior if single step mode is used: DONE would come on after the correct number of single step operations. I'll submit a PR with that version. Thanks Reindert for verifying the fix. paul _______________________________________________ HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se

2 years, 9 months

Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->solved (by Paul as it is)

by R. Voorhorst

L.S. So in the end I had little to do :) (thanks Paul and Johnny), and the updated code by Paul fixes the problem and yes, the diagnostics still complete without complaint. A check of the engineering drawings should verify/confirm how the pulse count is actually terminated/reset in hardware. Johnny confirmed with the code analysis the suspicion that KG11 was sparingly used and the bulk crc processing was probably offloaded to either Decnet11MP software or even the Dup11 hardware crc processing capabilities,. That makes the use of the one KG11 needed quite superfluous. It is only used for transmission header checking so it is interesting to see how it functions with async Decnet lines. Second is how this error in the header check propagates to a crc check of the data-body processed elsewhere, but both crc errors disappear with the fix. @Mark: do you need the another serving of the solution by Paul: static void do_poly (int unit, t_bool step) { if (kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE) return; if (step) cycleOneBit (unit); else { while (!(kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE)) cycleOneBit (unit); kg_unit[unit].PULSCNT = 0; /* *** ADDED *** */ } } You can attribute the solution to Paul if attribution is in order as he ultimately found it. Best regards, Reindert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koning [mailto:paulkoning@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, 02 February, 2022 02:26 To: HECnet <hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se> Subject: [HECnet] Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->some first results > On Feb 1, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Johnny Billquist < <mailto:bqt@softjar.se> bqt(a)softjar.se> wrote: > > By the way, I do agree that it looks like you spotted the problem, in > that the KG11 seems to just do a single cycle when it should process a > word. Now you just need to figure out why it goes wrong in that way. > :-) > > Johnny I think I see the problem, but how the KG11 diagnostic can pass at all is quite beyond comprehension. In the data register write, the emulation clears the DONE flag, then if SEN (shift enable) is set, it begins the checksum update. In normal mode (not single step) it loops on the "do a step" operation until DONE is set again. So far so good. How does DONE get set? In function cycleOneBit, an internal counter PULSCNT is compared with the count that belongs to the currently configured mode: 6, 8, 12 or 16 depending on the polynomial. When PULSCNT reaches the limit (more precisely, when it is >= the limit) DONE is set. The trouble is that PULSCNT is cleared only by reset and by status register write. It is NOT reset at the end of a normal byte or word operation. That means that every operation after the first one will only do one bit, unless the host writes SR after each byte or word. The solution seems to be to add a clear of PULSCNT after a byte or word has been consumed: static void do_poly (int unit, t_bool step) { if (kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE) return; if (step) cycleOneBit (unit); else { while (!(kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE)) cycleOneBit (unit); kg_unit[unit].PULSCNT = 0; /* *** ADDED *** */ } } paul _______________________________________________ HECnet mailing list -- <mailto:hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se> hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se To unsubscribe send an email to <mailto:hecnet-leave@lists.dfupdate.se> hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se

2 years, 9 months

Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->solved (by Paul as it is) --> rcv/xmt transmission

by R. Voorhorst

@Johhny: Funny that is, I only see KG11 involvement in the traces in the Xmit header parts, not in any Rcv header parts for the data packets, so it seems (for the Dup11 at least) complete receive packet is checked in Dup11. By the way, in which (CEX?) module in the listings on fiche does one find the crc support with/without KG11? Thanks for your analysis which clarified a lot. Reindert -----Original Message----- From: Johnny Billquist [mailto:bqt@softjar.se] Sent: Wednesday, 02 February, 2022 12:29 To: R. Voorhorst <R.Voorhorst(a)swabhawat.com>; 'The Hobbyist DECnet mailing list' <hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se> Subject: [HECnet] Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->solved (by Paul as it is) The CRC for the data is offloaded to the DUP11. If it was done in software, it would loop in the KG11 again. Like I said, if the KG11 is enabled, it is used everywhere. But the fact is that the DUP11 have built-in CRC check/generation. It would be silly to not take advantage of that. If you use some other interfaces, more will be done in software. For example, the DU11, or indeed any async line, such as a DL or DZ. However, the KG11 is used both at transmit and receive time. But one KG11 is enough, since the whole packet is checked at once, and not piecemeal while the packet is being transmitted/received, which would potentially cause problems if you have multiple interfaces being active in parallel, or indeed full duplex operation. Johnny On 2022-02-02 10:09, R. Voorhorst wrote: > L.S. > > So in the end I had little to do J (thanks Paul and Johnny), and the > updated code by Paul fixes the problem and yes, the diagnostics still > complete without complaint. A check of the engineering drawings should > verify/confirm how the pulse count is actually terminated/reset in hardware. > > Johnny confirmed with the code analysis the suspicion that KG11 was > sparingly used and the bulk crc processing was probably offloaded to > either Decnet11MP software or even the Dup11 hardware crc processing > capabilities,. That makes the use of the one KG11 needed quite > superfluous. It is only used for transmission header checking so it is > interesting to see how it functions with async Decnet lines. > > Second is how this error in the header check propagates to a crc check > of the data-body processed elsewhere, but both crc errors disappear > with the fix. > > @Mark: do you need the another serving of the solution by Paul: > > static void do_poly (int unit, t_bool step) { > > if (kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE) > > return; > > if (step) > > cycleOneBit (unit); > > else { > > while (!(kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE)) > > cycleOneBit (unit); > > * kg_unit[unit].PULSCNT = 0; /* *** ADDED *** */* > > } > > } > > You can attribute the solution to Paul if attribution is in order as > he ultimately found it. > > Best regards, > > Reindert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Koning [mailto:paulkoning@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, 02 February, 2022 02:26 > To: HECnet <hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se> > Subject: [HECnet] Re: KG11 emulation probably defective -->some first > results > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)softjar.se > <mailto:bqt@softjar.se>> wrote: > > > > > > By the way, I do agree that it looks like you spotted the problem, > in > > > that the KG11 seems to just do a single cycle when it should > process a > > > word. Now you just need to figure out why it goes wrong in that way. > > > :-) > > > > > > Johnny > > I think I see the problem, but how the KG11 diagnostic can pass at all > is quite beyond comprehension. > > In the data register write, the emulation clears the DONE flag, then > if SEN (shift enable) is set, it begins the checksum update. In > normal mode (not single step) it loops on the "do a step" operation > until DONE is set again. > > So far so good. > > How does DONE get set? In function cycleOneBit, an internal counter > PULSCNT is compared with the count that belongs to the currently > configured mode: 6, 8, 12 or 16 depending on the polynomial. When > PULSCNT reaches the limit (more precisely, when it is >= the limit) > DONE is set. > > The trouble is that PULSCNT is cleared only by reset and by status > register write. It is NOT reset at the end of a normal byte or word > operation. That means that every operation after the first one will > only do one bit, unless the host writes SR after each byte or word. > > The solution seems to be to add a clear of PULSCNT after a byte or > word has been consumed: > > static void do_poly (int unit, t_bool step) { > > if (kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE) > > return; > > if (step) > > cycleOneBit (unit); > > else { > > while (!(kg_unit[unit].SR & KGSR_M_DONE)) > > cycleOneBit (unit); > > kg_unit[unit].PULSCNT = 0; /* *** ADDED *** */ > > } > > } > > paul > > _______________________________________________ > > HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se > <mailto:hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se> To unsubscribe send an email to > hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se <mailto:hecnet-leave@lists.dfupdate.se> > -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol _______________________________________________ HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se

2 years, 9 months

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HECnet February 2022