On 2013-02-12 21:56, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Hello!
I've gotten Linux DECnet working...so my primary workstation is now on
HECnet. ;)
Change 9.15 to MAELNA please.
Done.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2013-02-12 21:44, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 02/12/2013 03:41 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
So why is anyone (Dave) buying their service?
I'm buying their service because it's the best service I can get
here. (and it's significantly better than the best I could get in
either Florida or DC, at least when I lived there) And it's cheaper by
about 30% than what I had in Florida, though that was not a
consideration, as my connectivity is my livelihood. As a bonus, for
that 30% discount, I have more than twice the bandwidth and far, far
better reliability. (I was on Sprint business class in Florida)
I am 100% happy with Comcast Business. They are a class act. (with
the exception of that routing hole, which I will investigate!) Please
keep in mind that this is NOT the same organization, business model, or
staff as the consumer-grade shared cable network service. (There's
fiber to the pole outside my building!)
You guys are funny...
??
Yes. Talking about comcast blocking ports, dynamic IP addresses and all that stuff. It is Comcast that is being blocked.
You totally missed Peters point. It is *Comcast* who do not have access
to the whole internet, not the other way around. Comcast can't do
anything about it. Comcast is blacklisted by some parts of the Internet.
If you want access to those parts of the Internet you need to switch to
another ISP, which actually do have access to all of it.
Comcast is not blocking something for you. Comcast do not have access,
and thus can't sell it either. Comcast probably did not tell you, or any
other customer, that you will only be able to access parts of the
Internet through them. Ask for a refund, or go somewhere else...? I
doubt Comcast will suddenly be able to speak to Stupi.SE within any
forseeable future.
I thought it was a matter of Comcast not having BGP peering agreements
with some other backbone carriers. Is that not the case?
As far as I know, no. However, I'll let Peter expand on that, if he cares to.
But Comcast might also have BGP issues. I don't know. But if that was the case, I would have thought that it would just have to route through some it do have agreements with, and get to the end destination anyway, even if not through the best possible paths... Or else I missed something more. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 02/12/2013 03:54 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Interesting, I always though the 11/60 held that honor.
Nope. The 11/60 wasn't a big flop. It wasn't a success, admittedly, but
it did sell in some numbers. (I at one time, had four 11/60 machines to
play with in a computer club, and I still have a complete CPU board set
for an 11/60 - no WCS though.)
The limited success of the 11/60 was due to the totally incomprehensible
decision to go for 11/34 feature parity at a time when the 11/70 had
already set the future standard.
But apart from that stupidity, it was a rather nice machine, in a very
nice package.
I agree; I like 11/60s quite a lot. My very first computer consulting
gig involved selling and installing a (very) used 11/60 to a private
school in NJ. I wonder what happened to it. I really liked that
machine. Its only real limitation was the 18-bit addressing, and I was
really coveting the WCS capability! (my home machine at the time was an
11/34)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2013-02-12 18:38, Clem Cole wrote:
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:47 AM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com
<mailto:Paul_Koning at dell.com>> wrote:
Nothing. It was one of the most spectacular failures in DEC
history. A whole new OS (well, based on RSX I believe) and new
hardware designed specifically for it (VT62), canceled a week after
it was first announced.
Interesting, I always though the 11/60 held that honor.
Nope. The 11/60 wasn't a big flop. It wasn't a success, admittedly, but it did sell in some numbers. (I at one time, had four 11/60 machines to play with in a computer club, and I still have a complete CPU board set for an 11/60 - no WCS though.)
The limited success of the 11/60 was due to the totally incomprehensible decision to go for 11/34 feature parity at a time when the 11/70 had already set the future standard.
But apart from that stupidity, it was a rather nice machine, in a very nice package.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 02/12/2013 02:23 AM, Dan B wrote:
@Dave McGuire - I'm neither a kid nor a gamer. Perhaps you're
confusing the business vs. consumer services? They are quite
different; they don't even share a network infrastructure.
Well, the business side is better, for what I understand here (in the
north west,) many businesses use comcast business as backup, the
primaries differ based on each choices.
I don't know of any small company here using comcast as primary,
however may be wrong for lack of data, there may be some, they (cable
companies) lament too low business adoption, but from the other
(business clients) side there are fears mainly of security and
continuity of service.
If you have redundant fibers to your door, you may be better off using
comcast, since I read somewhere that getting fiber to the premises
with ILEC may prevent you to revert back to copper in the future.
Well like I said, I'm very happy with them, and I am one of the few
American consumers who is actually difficult to please. This is the
best service I've had since the 1990s, when the guys staffing my
connection's NOC were hired and managed by ME, and I had enable access
to the routers and root on the nameservers.
Comcast-wise, if there's a network peering issue, like reaching
Peter's part of the world, I will ask them about it when I have a chance.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 2013-02-12 17:47, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Feb 11, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
...
Speaking of IAS, it really looks cool when reading specs, but I've never touched it, and another aspect of those specs is that it looks like it would be rather slow...
IAS was basically RSX11-D with a timesharing system layered over it. My exposure to it was in supporting Typeset-11, which originally ran on RSX11-D and in later versions moved to IAS. For our purposes, the two were identical; we did not use the timesharing facilities of IAS at all. I'm not sure why Typeset-11 used RSX11-D instead of -M as most of the competition did. Perhaps history -- it may be that it predated -M.
Sounds likely. I wonder if much did happen in 11D after 11M, and even more, 11M+ were introduced. It sure looks like all focus was on the 11M family. But 11D did come before.
And yes, it was pretty heavy. It did work well enough for what we wanted, but it did use a whole 11/70 to support an application that was less functional than what competitors did with an 11/45. For example, Typeset-11 did not have WYSIWIG editing while the other guys did, and that was a major black mark.
Never seen TRAX in real life either, btw. What was so good about it?
Nothing. It was one of the most spectacular failures in DEC history. A whole new OS (well, based on RSX I believe) and new hardware designed specifically for it (VT62), canceled a week after it was first announced.
The little I've read about TRAX, I wonder how much RSX based it really was.
Also, the terminal must have been the VT61 (which I think was block-mode oriented). The VT62 is just a plain VT52 with some additional whistles. I had one for many years...
Cancelled after one week is rather spectacular, though. Do you know why? I've seen it mentioned in some documentation and so on, but never seen or heard anything of it outside of those few places. Obviously never seen or heard of anyone ever running it, or even knowing of any place where anyone have run it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 02/12/2013 03:41 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
So why is anyone (Dave) buying their service?
I'm buying their service because it's the best service I can get
here. (and it's significantly better than the best I could get in
either Florida or DC, at least when I lived there) And it's cheaper by
about 30% than what I had in Florida, though that was not a
consideration, as my connectivity is my livelihood. As a bonus, for
that 30% discount, I have more than twice the bandwidth and far, far
better reliability. (I was on Sprint business class in Florida)
I am 100% happy with Comcast Business. They are a class act. (with
the exception of that routing hole, which I will investigate!) Please
keep in mind that this is NOT the same organization, business model, or
staff as the consumer-grade shared cable network service. (There's
fiber to the pole outside my building!)
You guys are funny...
??
You totally missed Peters point. It is *Comcast* who do not have access
to the whole internet, not the other way around. Comcast can't do
anything about it. Comcast is blacklisted by some parts of the Internet.
If you want access to those parts of the Internet you need to switch to
another ISP, which actually do have access to all of it.
Comcast is not blocking something for you. Comcast do not have access,
and thus can't sell it either. Comcast probably did not tell you, or any
other customer, that you will only be able to access parts of the
Internet through them. Ask for a refund, or go somewhere else...? I
doubt Comcast will suddenly be able to speak to Stupi.SE within any
forseeable future.
I thought it was a matter of Comcast not having BGP peering agreements
with some other backbone carriers. Is that not the case?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
I'm not sure what the routing issue are with *Comcast*, however Johnny is
right about them not having "some" access to the rest of the internet. We
have been blocking email access FROM *Comast* for years because of all the
spam that comes off their network. My last access edit for CMCS was:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6958 Apr 20 2008 CMCS
# CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc.
#------------^------------------v--------------------------------------#
24.126 550 Spam not wanted (CMCS)
<snip>
I block 115 class B subnets from them (that's 7536640 IP addresses).
Brett
Right,I don't Kari :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:44:26
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue
I guess you guys don't have the Multia Service Guide, right?
Kari
On 12.2.2013 20:11, H Vlems wrote:
Dan, for my Multia I use a 543 MB Toshiba disk.
On its label it says:
disk drive MK1924FBV
HDD2524 L ZE91
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Dan
B
Verzonden: dinsdag, februari 2013 9:50
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue
great, good to know info
On 2/12/13, hvlems at zonnet.nl <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Dan, when I'm back home I'll mail you the Toshiba part number(s).
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 00:13:52
To: <hecnet at update.uu.se>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue
no, the server one is the same of the miata and the noname, (and
probably the rs6000 ibm as well)
the multia ises a funny ribbon cable like the laptops and the macs,
hopefully a laptop drive may work ?
the toshiba are ide or scsi ? i found out those multia can use both
(bummer,) but i doubt the ide may work for vms, on the miata (that
"came from the factory" with an ide cd,) i had to use an external scsi
for vms, would not see the original one, but would work just fine with
true64 and win2000, ... maybe because it was born as an "au" for unix,
mistery ;-)
On 2/12/13, hvlems at zonnet.nl <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
What kind of floppy drive does the Multia have? Is it similar to what is
used in, say, an AlphaServer 1200?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 23:51:11
To: <hecnet at update.uu.se>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue
I think I'll just take that drive out, whatever it is, it may help
cooling. I'm more worried about a replacement floppy to be honest, I
like to have spare parts for everything, since finding them may be a
nightmare at times.
On 2/11/13, Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com> wrote:
@hvlems at zonnet.nl - Did you write IDE disk for a Multia?
ISTR it used a 2.5" scsi drive.
I thought it was, LOL, is a half size 2", guess I guessed wrong, the
flat cable gave me the impression. I never did anything with that
drive except using the NT 3.51 that was on it originally (upgraded
later to 4.0,) I have better read the documentation before I try to
"fix" it LOL.
I think NT should run on SCSI, I had a WIN2000 beta running on the
miata a very long time ago, but the disk went bad, and don't know
where to find a CD for it. In the mid ni8neties we ran a lot of NT
3.51 and 4 on alpha, but honestly, don't remember the hardware, has
been a long time (for a senile guy like me.)
On 2/11/13, Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com> wrote:
I think I'll take the ide out, after imoaging it (hopefully,) would
you know of a way of using a 2.88 non dec floppy in there ? adapters
from the flat cable to the generic floppy one ? I'm wandering if I can
use a regular alpha one or an ibm rs6000 one, have a few spares, just
don't know if vms and the firmware may support it.
On 2/11/13, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
There were several options; a 2,5" SCSI disk, a 3,5" SCSI disk and a
2,5" IDE disk.
What I've found out with my Multias is that it is not recommended to
use
an internal drive at all, because of the additional heat it produces.
The enclosure is not very well designed for sufficient cooling and
therefore it is best to try to minimize the heat load in every
possible
way.
An external SCSI disk or enclosure with disks (such as a BA353) works
fine.
Kari
On 11.2.2013 10:20, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Did you write IDE disk for a Multia?
ISTR it used a 2.5" scsi drive.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 00:03:10
To: <hecnet at update.uu.se>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue
also, for the drive, let the machine off but plugged into a socket
for
24 hours, maybe needs to energize, I notice today with the multia,
and
before with the vax, that they need enough charge on the batteries to
function
anyhow, that's how the isa corrupted message went off after a while,
so that issue is solved, not so for the ide hard disk, that one i
think is fried, still keeps appearing and disappearing
On 2/10/13, Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com> wrote:
I have been using barracuda plain scsi-1, external, they are small
but
run decent for everything (probably except windoze, never tried to
run
it on scsi on alpha.) All three were barracuda, I lost one machine
(the miata, without counting a number of VAX, those have been dying
faster, I'm down to "one" now,) but not the drives.
The noise points to a bad drive, (hopefully not controller,) on
linux
boxes, pc and pc server hardware, I have had a lot of disk failures,
sparc, sgi, hp9000 and ibm 6000 are built way better, hardly never
fail, consider that those alpha (and the small drives they came
with,)
are now going to be 20 year old in a few months, the VAX is heading
for thirty, in so I expect those old drives to fail sooner or later,
I
used to buy them by the lot, and still have boxes of small ones.
I'm more worried when the machines fail, those are hard to replace,
and parts may be really hard to find (like a multia floppy or
internal
ide.) Probably is time to image all those drives, and if worse comes
to worse, run on stromasys or simh for the vax.
cheers,
daniel
;-)
On 2/10/13, Michael Holmes <mholmes10 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Found the hidden culprit.... The hard drive started making noises
that
I
normally hear from a blender.
The multia booted fine when I set it to mop boot without any local
disk
(slow but worked).
So next weekend I'll remove (or replace )the drive and do the fan
upgrade
everyone recommends.
Anyone know of any possible replacement scsi drives for multia's???
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 10, 2013, at 8:39 PM, "Dan B" <dibi58 at gmail.com> wrote:
keep it in a cold place, the number one cause of death for multia
is
processor overheating, it does not suffer cold, but fries
processors
in the heat
On 2/10/13, Michael Holmes <mholmes10 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Oh gee what a picky machine....
It wasn't lighting up the flat panel monitor from SRM console.
Switched it to the same old CRT monitor I use with the DEC 3000
(only
monitor with RGB inputs)
and its displaying...
Damn thing is ACTUALLY booting off its little disk that I
installed
vms
on
directly via the DEC 3000.
Now just have to convo boot the damn thing to fix its HOME server
for
system
disks (node name and addresses changed when I connected to
HECnet).
wish me luck...
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:42:08 +0200
From: uusimaki at exdecfinland.org
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue
Are you sure that nothing has changed on your setup since you
booted
the
Multia successfully?
Any parameter? Anything of the HW?
On 10.2.2013 21:01, Michael Holmes wrote:
Yes I hooked up the vms install CDROM to the multia to boot and
used
the
boot procedure with floppy and it pretty much stalls after the
"starting
bootstrap ..."message.
took the HD from the dec3000 with the image of the vms install
disk
and
tried to boot from it with same results.
Bought a new (and expensive) floppy for it and same results.
Can flip to ARC and SRM consoles ok (not tried to boot under
arc
as
I
don't have win nt.)
---------
Just booted back up and it was at ARC console so I switched it
over
to
SRM and power cycled it and now it's not powering the monitor.
Will have to find my serial cable and try to switch it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:06 AM, "Kari Uusim ki"
<uusimaki at exdecfinland.org>
wrote:
Do you have any chance to test booting from a directly
connected
SCSI
CD-ROM or a disk?
Kari
On 10.2.2013 0:58, Michael Holmes wrote:
Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was reading about the
fixes
to
the VAXStation 4000 regarding chips.
I bought a multia several years back and I think it sucommed
to
being
moved to and from Germany and the States too many times.
I had it booting as a satelite off a DEC 3000 just fine,
until
this
last
move.
I thought the battery had died and replaced it. (dead battery
prevents
the bios from coming up)
I get the SRM console and i'd get MOP load message on the DEC
3000
but
the MULTIA just hangs after message about bootstrapping.
I heard something about an I/O chip that can go bad on the MB
and
was
wondering if anyone had any ideas that could be used to fix
the
MULTIA.
thanks
Mike
.
On 2013-02-12 17:18, lee.gleason at comcast.net wrote:
>Speaking of IAS, it really looks cool when reading specs, but I've never
>touched it, and another aspect of those specs is that it looks like it
>would be rather slow...
I managed an IAS system on an 11/70 back in the day. I don't have any
formal benchmarks, but it didn't "feel" any slower than equivalent
RSX11M and M+ systems I have been on.
Cool. The reason I mentioned it because of just such things as you mention below - device drivers being full blown tasks do imply quite a lot more overhead.
IAS was a real treat. If you wanted them, you could SYSGEN in real
timesharing features for supporting users who didn't require realtime
response to their needs. It included lots of concepts that later made
their way into VMS, (although, considering this crowd, I don't know if
that will be considered a plus here...).
Well, I for one don't mind VMS, even if I think RSX is way cooler most of the time.
The most interesting feature for me was the way device drivers
worked. Called "handlers", they were complete tasks, instead of the APR
and a couple registers' worth of context provided by RSX11M/M+ drivers.
You could do a lot more work in them, a lot easier than on the other RSX
variants. The down side is that any driver action involved scheduling a
task rather than the lightweight context switch required by a driver.
But, having said that, the system I managed supported lots and lots of
terminals at 9600 baud, and wasn't bogged down by servicing interrupts,
so scheduling a task to do IO didn't turn out as bad as you'd think it
would.
Yeah. After having done a lot of device drivers and stuff in -11M+, I sometimes long for the freedom of a task context. That's when you go diving into ACPs, but it would be nicer if the driver was a task in itself.
I managed RSTS sytstems as well and I vastly preferred the richer
environment provide by IAS. I recall being at the DECUS Symposium where
the future of IAS was announced (that is, no future...). There was much
lamentation, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over that.
Support did actually continue for quite a few years after that though -
turns out that the US Air Force was a big IAS user, and DEC didn't want
to upset the government.
BTW, I'm always looking for IAS related "stuff" - copies of the
DeVIAS newsletter, IAS software (espcially DECnet-IAS) and the like.
I believe IAS never went to Mentec, but actually stayed with DEC, for the very same reason (although I also heard that supposedly it was IRS, but urban legends are probably abundant).
>Never seen TRAX in real life either, btw. What was so good about it?
Me neither, though I did use some of the VT61 and VT62 terminals that
were developed for it - like VT-52s, but with IBM style block mode. Not
a lot of software outside of TRAX used their block mode features, so
they were pretty rare.
The VT61... The VT62 was a different beast, and I had one for many years... It's basically a VT52 with inverse video attribute.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
