On 7 Jan 2013, at 14:43, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
On 1/7/2013 2:41 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
This was referred to as PMR (Poor Mans Routing). The concept was not
new because it had been used in previous versions of DECnet anyway, the
application was... Sort of... HECnet has reserved area 63 for hidden
area nodes - to play with mostly. I did some playing around last year.
If I can ever find my notes (from DEC days) about the whole setup I will
get back to playing some more with it.
This sounds like it was a bad idea back then and a bad idea now. :)
Oooooh! Bad idea! Let's do it.
-brian
On 1/7/2013 2:41 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
This was referred to as PMR (Poor Mans Routing). The concept was not
new because it had been used in previous versions of DECnet anyway, the
application was... Sort of... HECnet has reserved area 63 for hidden
area nodes - to play with mostly. I did some playing around last year.
If I can ever find my notes (from DEC days) about the whole setup I will
get back to playing some more with it.
This sounds like it was a bad idea back then and a bad idea now. :)
-brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 14:13
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Area 48.....
On 7 Jan 2013, at 14:08, "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of
Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 14:02
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Area 48.....
On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:52 PM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if Hecnet ran out of addresses :)
Does anyone know what the largest DECnet deplayment was
duing the good old days?
The internal net at DEC was seriously out of addresses,
though just
like IP that's partly because the addressing scheme forced
it to be
somewhat sparse. Still, there were certainly tens of thousands of
nodes on it.
paul
And let's not forget the hidden areas that DEC was forced to go
to...
Hidden areas? ;)
When DEC began to run out of node names/addresses (64512) they resorted
to something called hidden areas. "Spitbrook Rd" (Nashua, NH) had nodes
that were in areas 61-63 that could not be seen beyond that facility.
Other sites, like the "The Mill" and "Parker Street" (Maynard, MA) also
reused those same addresses just not the node names. If the node you
were on was in a hidden area then you had to do your own "routing" of
sorts to get the areas outside your facility.
As an example: If I was on node FOO::, and FOO:: was in a hidden area,
and I wanted to send email to another site on node BAR:: then the DECnet
path might look something like this:
ROUTR1::BAR::<username>. Where ROUTR1:: is a non-hidden area node
within my facility.
If the other end had the same issue then the chosen path might look
something like:
ROUTR2::FOO::DAVIDSON. Where ROUTR2:: is a non-hidden area node within
the source facility.
This was referred to as PMR (Poor Mans Routing). The concept was not
new because it had been used in previous versions of DECnet anyway, the
application was... Sort of... HECnet has reserved area 63 for hidden
area nodes - to play with mostly. I did some playing around last year.
If I can ever find my notes (from DEC days) about the whole setup I will
get back to playing some more with it.
-Steve
-Steve
On 1/7/2013 2:36 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/07/2013 02:34 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Oh, I never expect NICE to make it into IOS. Especially at this point.
It was just a dream :)
Have we determined if SNMP works over DECnet?
Uhh...oooh, uh, no.
Hmmm.
It would surprise me greatly if it did. :)
-brian
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
On 1/7/2013 2:15 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > Brian
Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes: > >> Because the one downside of
the Cisco's is they don't speak NICE. It >> would be awesome if they
did. > That's because they speak IOS! :P >
No, they *run* IOS. They *speak* many, many different things. :)
My DTC01s and DTC03s can *speak" many many different things too! ;)
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 01/07/2013 02:34 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Oh, I never expect NICE to make it into IOS. Especially at this point.
It was just a dream :)
Have we determined if SNMP works over DECnet?
Uhh...oooh, uh, no.
Hmmm.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Oh, I never expect NICE to make it into IOS. Especially at this point. It was just a dream :)
Have we determined if SNMP works over DECnet?
-brian
On 1/7/2013 2:30 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Hmm. Well, adding NICE to IOS is less likely to happen than adding
SNMP to the mapper. ;)
-Dave
On 01/07/2013 02:22 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
No more so than implementing SNMP if you ask me.
-brian
On 1/7/2013 2:18 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Yes it would, but wouldn't that be edging away from "implementing a
DEC protocol" to "emulating a DEC operating system component"? (not
that it'd be that outlandish, given the origins of Cisco)
-Dave
On 01/07/2013 02:04 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Because the one downside of the Cisco's is they don't speak NICE. It
would be awesome if they did.
-brian
On 1/7/2013 2:03 PM, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Well it doesn't play nice with the mapper Brian H and me are working
on..
sampsa
On 7 Jan 2013, at 20:59, Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net> wrote:
On 2013-01-07, at 10:54 AM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
What kind of cisco tunnel? I'm curious as to if I could replicate
any of that setup with open source stuff...
I have a Cisco 7206VXR router that has Cisco's Decnet implementation
on it. It is now acting as my area router, and connects to Dave's
Cisco via an IP tunnel. From what I understand, Cisco's Decnet
implementation is proprietary - not sure if it works well with
non-Cisco stuff.
Ian
Hmm. Well, adding NICE to IOS is less likely to happen than adding
SNMP to the mapper. ;)
-Dave
On 01/07/2013 02:22 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
No more so than implementing SNMP if you ask me.
-brian
On 1/7/2013 2:18 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Yes it would, but wouldn't that be edging away from "implementing a
DEC protocol" to "emulating a DEC operating system component"? (not
that it'd be that outlandish, given the origins of Cisco)
-Dave
On 01/07/2013 02:04 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Because the one downside of the Cisco's is they don't speak NICE. It
would be awesome if they did.
-brian
On 1/7/2013 2:03 PM, sampsa at mac.com wrote:
Well it doesn't play nice with the mapper Brian H and me are working
on..
sampsa
On 7 Jan 2013, at 20:59, Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net> wrote:
On 2013-01-07, at 10:54 AM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
What kind of cisco tunnel? I'm curious as to if I could replicate
any of that setup with open source stuff...
I have a Cisco 7206VXR router that has Cisco's Decnet implementation
on it. It is now acting as my area router, and connects to Dave's
Cisco via an IP tunnel. From what I understand, Cisco's Decnet
implementation is proprietary - not sure if it works well with
non-Cisco stuff.
Ian
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Although, the guts of the Internet DEC engineering network was a Class A (net 16) address and it was IP routed and IP managed and DECnet hung off of it once it got an extreme size and scale.
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:01 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:52 PM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
> Wouldn't it be ironic if Hecnet ran out of addresses :)
>
> Does anyone know what the largest DECnet deplayment was duing the good old days?
The internal net at DEC was seriously out of addresses, though just like IP that's partly because the addressing scheme forced it to be somewhat sparse. Still, there were certainly tens of thousands of nodes on it.
paul
