Hi Jordi,
Have you tried running the DEC-10 diagnostics? I'm not a -10 guy's as such, so I might be wrong here, but I think they are called the KLAD pack.
Search for KLAD on http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/. It should be much easier to pin point which part of the microcode is causing the problems.
Regards, Tim.
Sent from my Sony Ericsson Xperia arc
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
El 28/11/2012, a les 22:48, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> va escriure:
Al 28/11/12 22:47, En/na Paul_Koning at Dell.com ha escrit:
Is Pi big endian? Does KLH10 assume little endian?
Pi is little endian. And, to add some weirdness to this, I have just completed a TOPS-20 boot using the very same binaries...
What I have found so far:
- The ARM compile of KLH10 does not handle correctly the load of images in DEC-PEXE format. If the simulator is compiled without optimizations (i.e., -O0 in Makefile) then it does not spit any error message when it tries to load KLBOOT.EXE but it doesn't work either. For some reason it does not set up the initial address (but probably the problem is beyond that). I have been able to dump from a KLH10 running in a amd64 linux to a *.sav file and it seems to work... but then it does not recognize the TOPS-10 structures. I will work on both the LOAD problem and the disk problem a little bit.
- TOPS-20 (PANDA) does boot, but the networking code does some weird things. Basically, lots of "***BUGCHK IPIBLP*** IPNI input buffer list problem" messages whenever I try to do something with IP networking. I have googled for that bugcheck, and it is related to the system being able to get IP buffers when it needs them. It could be a race condition, or some weird thing related to default word sizes.
I'll keep trying... :)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
El 28/11/2012, a les 22:48, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> va escriure:
Al 28/11/12 22:47, En/na Paul_Koning at Dell.com ha escrit:
Is Pi big endian? Does KLH10 assume little endian?
Pi is little endian. And, to add some weirdness to this, I have just completed a TOPS-20 boot using the very same binaries...
What I have found so far:
- The ARM compile of KLH10 does not handle correctly the load of images in DEC-PEXE format. If the simulator is compiled without optimizations (i.e., -O0 in Makefile) then it does not spit any error message when it tries to load KLBOOT.EXE but it doesn't work either. For some reason it does not set up the initial address (but probably the problem is beyond that). I have been able to dump from a KLH10 running in a amd64 linux to a *.sav file and it seems to work... but then it does not recognize the TOPS-10 structures. I will work on both the LOAD problem and the disk problem a little bit.
- TOPS-20 (PANDA) does boot, but the networking code does some weird things. Basically, lots of "***BUGCHK IPIBLP*** IPNI input buffer list problem" messages whenever I try to do something with IP networking. I have googled for that bugcheck, and it is related to the system being able to get IP buffers when it needs them. It could be a race condition, or some weird thing related to default word sizes.
I'll keep trying... :)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
Yep. 40 vs 48bit addressing. Need it on the controller. Your right.
Al.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Marc Chametzky
Sent: Friday, 30 November 2012 4:44 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Cc: sampsa at mac.com
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Largest PATA drive that a DS10 can use?
So it's basically maxed out as far as IDE goes?
Isn't there a 137 GB limit to older IDE controllers? I don't remember
much about the various IDE restrictions, but that number pops out in
my
head and it's likely that the older DS10 might not have the necessary
support for larger drives.
--Marc
I've got a pair of u320 300gb SCA's on a converters in a TS10. Works
fine thus far and I've filled and tested it.
Don't know about the PATA .. it's stinky ALI afair.
These:
http://www.sillworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=124&products_id=142256
Al.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of sampsa at mac.com
Sent: Friday, 30 November 2012 4:26 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Largest PATA drive that a DS10 can use?
Gentlemen,
I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
largest drive
this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
Sampsa
DS10 and the Alpha/PC family for sure but IIRC, most, if not all them. The original satellite DB stunt was done by folks in our team that were on site at MSFT. They did the work with SQLserver on a Turbolaser - so at least that had to work somehow. At the time, MSFT was trying to show that it could scale up to big systems. I have no idea if DEC ever sold any of these or what the NT/Alpha SPD officially stated.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 29 Nov 2012, at 16:20, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
Sorry, I know longer have an Alpha so I can not try this myself. But I'll be glad to answer any question I can about it. Frankly I've forgotten if it was 28 or 48 bits - but check the FreeBSD/Alpha sources on FreeBSD.org. The DS10 was one of the systems that it supported and it should be reasonable easy to figure out from the driver. Another thought is look at Supnik's simh sources, when he might have it in there. As you say the support chipset is fairly late Si so their a high probability that it will work. If it does, I would expect that a IDE to XXX converter will work also so you could put current manufactured disks into it.
A little known fact about the Alphas. DEC (and Sun for that matter) both used a triple interface Qlogic controller (I've forgotten the model number - but both companies used but with slightly different roms. That was the default controller for the DEC written OSs. But because of NT, DEC had to support the Adaptec family also and any DS10 or equiv that shipped with NT on it had an Adaptec 2940 controller not a Qlogic in it. The boot roms will work fine if you put one into it. In fact when we did the FreeBSD port, we started with Adaptec controller because at the time *BSD did not have a Qlogic driver.
Speaking of NT on Alpha, does HECnet have any Alphas running NT?
If not, which alphas did NT support? I might try to bring up NT/alpha in a VM.
Furthuremore, it's not in any SPD that I know of, but Tru64 will recognize and boot from an Adaptec controller -- the DS10 in my office MRO did just that. IIRC: VMS will work with an Adaptec but can not boot off it.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:37 PM, Oleg Safiullin wrote:
>> I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
>> largest drive this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
>
> "Compaq AlphaServer DS10 Systems, Technical Summary":
>
> Page 7:
> ---
> Disks supported are 20 and 40 GB IDE disks and 18.2 and 36.4
> GB UltraSCSI disks. In addition, a 72.8 GB universal wide
> Ultra3 SCSI disk is supported with the front access storage
> cage.
>
> Page 12
> ---
> System storage 108 GB SCSI or 120 GB IDE with internal storage cage or
> 218 GB SCSI with front access storage cage
>
> --
> I'm using two IDE disks: 80Gb and 120Gb.
Uhh..."supported" and "will work" are often two very different things
in DECland. I wouldn't consider a documentation quote very
authoritative here at all.
That said, the DS10 is a fairly late-model Alpha, introduced in 1999.
I'd expect it to at least support 28-bit LBA, topping out at ~137GB,
but it may support 48-bit LBA (BIG). I don't recall ever having used a
drive larger than 120GB on a DS10.
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 29 Nov 2012, at 16:20, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
Sorry, I know longer have an Alpha so I can not try this myself. But I'll be glad to answer any question I can about it. Frankly I've forgotten if it was 28 or 48 bits - but check the FreeBSD/Alpha sources on FreeBSD.org. The DS10 was one of the systems that it supported and it should be reasonable easy to figure out from the driver. Another thought is look at Supnik's simh sources, when he might have it in there. As you say the support chipset is fairly late Si so their a high probability that it will work. If it does, I would expect that a IDE to XXX converter will work also so you could put current manufactured disks into it.
A little known fact about the Alphas. DEC (and Sun for that matter) both used a triple interface Qlogic controller (I've forgotten the model number - but both companies used but with slightly different roms. That was the default controller for the DEC written OSs. But because of NT, DEC had to support the Adaptec family also and any DS10 or equiv that shipped with NT on it had an Adaptec 2940 controller not a Qlogic in it. The boot roms will work fine if you put one into it. In fact when we did the FreeBSD port, we started with Adaptec controller because at the time *BSD did not have a Qlogic driver.
Speaking of NT on Alpha, does HECnet have any Alphas running NT?
If not, which alphas did NT support? I might try to bring up NT/alpha in a VM.
Furthuremore, it's not in any SPD that I know of, but Tru64 will recognize and boot from an Adaptec controller -- the DS10 in my office MRO did just that. IIRC: VMS will work with an Adaptec but can not boot off it.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:37 PM, Oleg Safiullin wrote:
>> I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
>> largest drive this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
>
> "Compaq AlphaServer DS10 Systems, Technical Summary":
>
> Page 7:
> ---
> Disks supported are 20 and 40 GB IDE disks and 18.2 and 36.4
> GB UltraSCSI disks. In addition, a 72.8 GB universal wide
> Ultra3 SCSI disk is supported with the front access storage
> cage.
>
> Page 12
> ---
> System storage 108 GB SCSI or 120 GB IDE with internal storage cage or
> 218 GB SCSI with front access storage cage
>
> --
> I'm using two IDE disks: 80Gb and 120Gb.
Uhh..."supported" and "will work" are often two very different things
in DECland. I wouldn't consider a documentation quote very
authoritative here at all.
That said, the DS10 is a fairly late-model Alpha, introduced in 1999.
I'd expect it to at least support 28-bit LBA, topping out at ~137GB,
but it may support 48-bit LBA (BIG). I don't recall ever having used a
drive larger than 120GB on a DS10.
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Sorry, I know longer have an Alpha so I can not try this myself. But I'll be glad to answer any question I can about it. Frankly I've forgotten if it was 28 or 48 bits - but check the FreeBSD/Alpha sources on FreeBSD.org. The DS10 was one of the systems that it supported and it should be reasonable easy to figure out from the driver. Another thought is look at Supnik's simh sources, when he might have it in there. As you say the support chipset is fairly late Si so their a high probability that it will work. If it does, I would expect that a IDE to XXX converter will work also so you could put current manufactured disks into it.
A little known fact about the Alphas. DEC (and Sun for that matter) both used a triple interface Qlogic controller (I've forgotten the model number - but both companies used but with slightly different roms. That was the default controller for the DEC written OSs. But because of NT, DEC had to support the Adaptec family also and any DS10 or equiv that shipped with NT on it had an Adaptec 2940 controller not a Qlogic in it. The boot roms will work fine if you put one into it. In fact when we did the FreeBSD port, we started with Adaptec controller because at the time *BSD did not have a Qlogic driver.
Furthuremore, it's not in any SPD that I know of, but Tru64 will recognize and boot from an Adaptec controller -- the DS10 in my office MRO did just that. IIRC: VMS will work with an Adaptec but can not boot off it.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:37 PM, Oleg Safiullin wrote:
>> I've currently got 3 x 127 GB PATA drives on CHIMPY - what is the
>> largest drive this machine (DS10) will be capable of using?
>
> "Compaq AlphaServer DS10 Systems, Technical Summary":
>
> Page 7:
> ---
> Disks supported are 20 and 40 GB IDE disks and 18.2 and 36.4
> GB UltraSCSI disks. In addition, a 72.8 GB universal wide
> Ultra3 SCSI disk is supported with the front access storage
> cage.
>
> Page 12
> ---
> System storage 108 GB SCSI or 120 GB IDE with internal storage cage or
> 218 GB SCSI with front access storage cage
>
> --
> I'm using two IDE disks: 80Gb and 120Gb.
Uhh..."supported" and "will work" are often two very different things
in DECland. I wouldn't consider a documentation quote very
authoritative here at all.
That said, the DS10 is a fairly late-model Alpha, introduced in 1999.
I'd expect it to at least support 28-bit LBA, topping out at ~137GB,
but it may support 48-bit LBA (BIG). I don't recall ever having used a
drive larger than 120GB on a DS10.
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Oleg Safiullin wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:53 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
Were there any 66MHz/64-bit PCI alphas? Maybe a PCI-X alpha?
The DS10 (in particular) has 64-bit PCI. I don't recall if it did
66MHz or not.
-Dave
"I/O slots 3 64-bit PCI slots and 1 32-bit PCI slot", so it's probably 33Mhz.
"Maximum PCI throughput 250 MB/sec"...
Dave McGuire wrote:
On 11/29/2012 12:53 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Of course for SCSI, the real limit may be much higher. There are lots
of ways to get big storage on a PCI-based Alpha.
Were there any 66MHz/64-bit PCI alphas? Maybe a PCI-X alpha?
The DS10 (in particular) has 64-bit PCI. I don't recall if it did
66MHz or not.
-Dave
"I/O slots 3 64-bit PCI slots and 1 32-bit PCI slot", so it's probably 33Mhz.
