HECnet July 2011

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

21 participants
306 discussions

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

DECnet/AIX was a 3rd party effort IIRC I haven't searched the internet yet but who knows what is available. Perhaps the opensource decnet kit may be portable. I wasn't aware that AIX was so hobbyist friendly. The hardware is vey unfamiliar for me though. Hans Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel -----Original Message----- From: Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:34:31 To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness.... On 12 Jul 2011, at 19:00, Sampsa Laine wrote: So with my long, non-billing Sunday afternoons giving me ideas, I've started to ponder procuring a midrange IBM box, say an AS/400. How much do these things cost (like say a 93 vintage), weigh and dissipate heat? Also, how do you hook them up? Don't buy an AS400. Buy an RS/6000 - you can pick up a decent one for anywhere between 50GBP and 5000 GBP :D My personal home use favourites are the RS/6000 43P Model 150 (mini tower with PCI and a 640e Power PC), the 44P Model 170 (similar to 43P but POWER-III up to 450MHz) and the 7046-B50. All of them are workable in that they are quite, don't use MCA expansions and don't draw a fat lot of power. All of them will run AIX 5L too AFAIK which is relatively recent and well supported. Nice thing about IBM too is the computer IS your OS license. Because no IBM RS/6000 (or any other system aside from x86 gear) is sold without an OS license, they don't bother printing them they just let anyone with hardware run the OS (support costs extra mind you). It's a nice touch and means AIX is very accessible as a Hobbyist. It's taken over my 'pet UNIX' slot from Solaris since Oracle castrated the free license. Others mentioned DECNet will run on AIX, I suspect not on more modern versions but maybe 4.3.3 might run it? -- Mark Benson My Blog: <http://markbenson.org/blog> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/mdbenson "Never send a human to do a machine's job..."

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 12 Jul 2011, at 19:00, Sampsa Laine wrote: So with my long, non-billing Sunday afternoons giving me ideas, I've started to ponder procuring a midrange IBM box, say an AS/400. How much do these things cost (like say a 93 vintage), weigh and dissipate heat? Also, how do you hook them up? Don't buy an AS400. Buy an RS/6000 - you can pick up a decent one for anywhere between 50GBP and 5000 GBP :D My personal home use favourites are the RS/6000 43P Model 150 (mini tower with PCI and a 640e Power PC), the 44P Model 170 (similar to 43P but POWER-III up to 450MHz) and the 7046-B50. All of them are workable in that they are quite, don't use MCA expansions and don't draw a fat lot of power. All of them will run AIX 5L too AFAIK which is relatively recent and well supported. Nice thing about IBM too is the computer IS your OS license. Because no IBM RS/6000 (or any other system aside from x86 gear) is sold without an OS license, they don't bother printing them they just let anyone with hardware run the OS (support costs extra mind you). It's a nice touch and means AIX is very accessible as a Hobbyist. It's taken over my 'pet UNIX' slot from Solaris since Oracle castrated the free license. Others mentioned DECNet will run on AIX, I suspect not on more modern versions but maybe 4.3.3 might run it? -- Mark Benson My Blog: <http://markbenson.org/blog> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/mdbenson "Never send a human to do a machine's job..."

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

Umm, yes assuming you meant the Confusian way, right? Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Mark Wickens Verzonden: dinsdag, juli 2011 21:30 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness.... I think they call that 'interesting times' ;) On 12/07/11 21:27, H Vlems wrote: Remember what I wrote: this happened nearly two decades ago. IP is the protocol that survived and most people aren t even aware what happened on local area networks before, say,1998. I worked for Fuji, photosensitive films, paper and offset printing products. Most of the IT equipment was made by DEC: PDP-11 s (/44, /84, /93, /24, /73 and /23), VAXes, an IBM mainframe (4081) and PC s. And lots of other gear, most of it in the research lab. A Motorola box that ran Motorola Unix, and an RS/6000 under AIX 2.4 (?). The lingua franca was DECnet and LAT. No IP, though some PC s used Novell and SNA over tokenring to make terminal emulation to the mainframe possible. No IP. Sounds weird in today s world but DECnet eventually connected everything. We got a *very* early Cisco router that did level 1 DECnet routing between the corporate ethernet and the finance dept token ring. Another (DEC) box that routed DECnet over Datanet/1 (that s X25 in Europe IIRC). The mainframe used an SNA/DECnet gateway (the big channel attached box). The RS/6000 and the Motorola systems also ran DECnet, endnode only. To make this a little interesting we ran the first FDDI network in the Netherlands. Trouble shooting wasn t always easy, especially if the SNA/DECnet gateway was involved! Hans Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1388 / Virusdatabase: 1516/3760 - datum van uitgifte: 07/12/11

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

Remember what I wrote: this happened nearly two decades ago. IP is the protocol that survived and most people aren t even aware what happened on local area networks before, say,1998. I worked for Fuji, photosensitive films, paper and offset printing products. Most of the IT equipment was made by DEC: PDP-11 s (/44, /84, /93, /24, /73 and /23), VAXes, an IBM mainframe (4081) and PC s. And lots of other gear, most of it in the research lab. A Motorola box that ran Motorola Unix, and an RS/6000 under AIX 2.4 (?). The lingua franca was DECnet and LAT. No IP, though some PC s used Novell and SNA over tokenring to make terminal emulation to the mainframe possible. No IP. Sounds weird in today s world but DECnet eventually connected everything. We got a *very* early Cisco router that did level 1 DECnet routing between the corporate ethernet and the finance dept token ring. Another (DEC) box that routed DECnet over Datanet/1 (that s X25 in Europe IIRC). The mainframe used an SNA/DECnet gateway (the big channel attached box). The RS/6000 and the Motorola systems also ran DECnet, endnode only. To make this a little interesting we ran the first FDDI network in the Netherlands. Trouble shooting wasn t always easy, especially if the SNA/DECnet gateway was involved! Hans Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Jason Stevens Verzonden: dinsdag, juli 2011 21:10 Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness.... AIX and decnet? now that'd be ... non conformist & fun! Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1388 / Virusdatabase: 1516/3760 - datum van uitgifte: 07/12/11

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by neozeed＠gmail.com

The multimonitor thing for DOOM was pretty sweet.... And it'd let you look around corners. If you had a room full of 486's it was the neatest thing ever! On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote: On 12 Jul 2011, at 20:40, Jason Stevens wrote: > Oddly enough our VAX's actually had some netware thing. I wish I'd managed to make copies of the tapes, but we did have Netware for VAX/VMS. IT's probably for the better that you didn't. Being a bit on the young side I was doing LANs just as IPX/SPX and NetWare and suchlike were fading away. I remember setting up an IPX network to play DooM - my first ever LAN game wit ha friend of mine - and all the contact I had with Netware via education services etc was pretty nasty and proved to hurt more than it helped anything, but I was too young to understand bigger pictures at the time. > It wasn't until 95 with Microsoft including TCP/IP into the consumer OS did it really start to matter. Yes I do remember the days when Windows 3.11 had Winsock to provide a separate TCP stack. We used it and SLIP to dial up to our ISP back then. We had to keep a Windows 3.1 box on the modem for quite a while until we worked out how to build SLIP dialup scripts for Windows 95. Sometimes I swear I was born 10 years too late :( -- Mark Benson My Blog: <http://markbenson.org/blog> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/mdbenson "Never send a human to do a machine's job..."

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by fcoffey＠gmail.com

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011, Sampsa Laine wrote: So with my long, non-billing Sunday afternoons giving me ideas, I've started to ponder procuring a midrange IBM box, say an AS/400. Hi Sampsa, If you do in fact acquire an AS/400, I'd love to have an account to play around with. That's one system I've never really much used. And yes I do have a 5250 emulator available. :) Fred

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 12 Jul 2011, at 20:40, Jason Stevens wrote: Oddly enough our VAX's actually had some netware thing. I wish I'd managed to make copies of the tapes, but we did have Netware for VAX/VMS. IT's probably for the better that you didn't. Being a bit on the young side I was doing LANs just as IPX/SPX and NetWare and suchlike were fading away. I remember setting up an IPX network to play DooM - my first ever LAN game wit ha friend of mine - and all the contact I had with Netware via education services etc was pretty nasty and proved to hurt more than it helped anything, but I was too young to understand bigger pictures at the time. It wasn't until 95 with Microsoft including TCP/IP into the consumer OS did it really start to matter. Yes I do remember the days when Windows 3.11 had Winsock to provide a separate TCP stack. We used it and SLIP to dial up to our ISP back then. We had to keep a Windows 3.1 box on the modem for quite a while until we worked out how to build SLIP dialup scripts for Windows 95. Sometimes I swear I was born 10 years too late :( -- Mark Benson My Blog: <http://markbenson.org/blog> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/mdbenson "Never send a human to do a machine's job..."

13 years, 4 months

RS/6000 on HECNet? (Was: Towards the Mouth of Madness...)

by md.benson＠gmail.com

On 12 Jul 2011, at 19:19, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: You must have been dying of boredom to start a hobby like that :-) To stay on topic (somewhat): why no RS/6000 under AIX? That platform can run DECnet at least. It can? Oh I may have a third HECNet candidate :) I have a very nice RS/6000 7046-B50 that only pulls 75W. The Addition of one of those shiny new 73GB Seagate SCA drives I got has made it inot a really nice box. It's no louder than the zx6000 either and has a framebuffer (only does 1024x768 8-bit but it's a framebuffer) too so it's a really nice all-round box. I'm running AIX 5L - do tell if I can DECNet that, I have 4.3.3 too if I need to fall back a version. -- Mark Benson My Blog: <http://markbenson.org/blog> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/mdbenson "Never send a human to do a machine's job..."

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by neozeed＠gmail.com

I guess I got in at the end of the Netware years (Yeah I know governments still use) and I did live through the entire Ethernet, EthernetII, 802.2, 802.3 fiasco's (lol so much for standard....) All the stuff we had midrange did speak IPX/SPX, from the NeXT to the RS/6000's and PC's.... Oddly enough our VAX's actually had some netware thing. I wish I'd managed to make copies of the tapes, but we did have Netware for VAX/VMS. For our mainframe access we used Novell's SAA gateway which... was terrible, when Microsoft shipped SNA server 2.1 (was there a 1.0?!) we RAN to that... And used it over IPX/SXP with people even using dialup shiva's! It wasn't until 95 with Microsoft including TCP/IP into the consumer OS did it really start to matter. Well from my POV anyways. On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:27 PM, H Vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote: Remember what I wrote: this happened nearly two decades ago. IP is the protocol that survived and most people aren t even aware what happened on local area networks before, say,1998. I worked for Fuji, photosensitive films, paper and offset printing products. Most of the IT equipment was made by DEC: PDP-11 s (/44, /84, /93, /24, /73 and /23), VAXes, an IBM mainframe (4081) and PC s. And lots of other gear, most of it in the research lab. A Motorola box that ran Motorola Unix, and an RS/6000 under AIX 2.4 (?). The lingua franca was DECnet and LAT. No IP, though some PC s used Novell and SNA over tokenring to make terminal emulation to the mainframe possible. No IP. Sounds weird in today s world but DECnet eventually connected everything. We got a *very* early Cisco router that did level 1 DECnet routing between the corporate ethernet and the finance dept token ring. Another (DEC) box that routed DECnet over Datanet/1 (that s X25 in Europe IIRC). The mainframe used an SNA/DECnet gateway (the big channel attached box). The RS/6000 and the Motorola systems also ran DECnet, endnode only. To make this a little interesting we ran the first FDDI network in the Netherlands. Trouble shooting wasn t always easy, especially if the SNA/DECnet gateway was involved! Hans Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Jason Stevens Verzonden: dinsdag, juli 2011 21:10 Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness.... AIX and decnet? now that'd be ... non conformist & fun! Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1388 / Virusdatabase: 1516/3760 - datum van uitgifte: 07/12/11

13 years, 4 months

Towards the Mouth of Madness....

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

I think they call that 'interesting times' ;) On 12/07/11 21:27, H Vlems wrote: Remember what I wrote: this happened nearly two decades ago. IP is the protocol that survived and most people aren t even aware what happened on local area networks before, say,1998. I worked for Fuji, photosensitive films, paper and offset printing products. Most of the IT equipment was made by DEC: PDP-11 s (/44, /84, /93, /24, /73 and /23), VAXes, an IBM mainframe (4081) and PC s. And lots of other gear, most of it in the research lab. A Motorola box that ran Motorola Unix, and an RS/6000 under AIX 2.4 (?). The lingua franca was DECnet and LAT. No IP, though some PC s used Novell and SNA over tokenring to make terminal emulation to the mainframe possible. No IP. Sounds weird in today s world but DECnet eventually connected everything. We got a *very* early Cisco router that did level 1 DECnet routing between the corporate ethernet and the finance dept token ring. Another (DEC) box that routed DECnet over Datanet/1 (that s X25 in Europe IIRC). The mainframe used an SNA/DECnet gateway (the big channel attached box). The RS/6000 and the Motorola systems also ran DECnet, endnode only. To make this a little interesting we ran the first FDDI network in the Netherlands. Trouble shooting wasn t always easy, especially if the SNA/DECnet gateway was involved! Hans

13 years, 4 months

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HECnet July 2011