Well, if we're going to go off into Wishful Thinking Land here :-)
* DECnet for BSD, especially 2.11 PDP-11 bsd. Yes, a 16 bit version is
significantly harder than a 32 bit version, I know, but there are several
real PDP11s out there running BSD that could be on HECnet. I know - I've
got one! We could use the Linux DECnet as a starting point - the dn
userspace utility programs might not even be that hard to port - but we'd
need a kernel wizard to do the tricky bits :-)
* DECnet for OS/8. There was a version started by DEC - it actually ran
under RTS/8, which then also ran OS/8 at the same time as another task.
I've got some partial sources for it, but it's not clear that my sources are
complete or even that DEC ever actually finished it in the first place. It
never saw the light od day as a customer product.
* DECnet for RT11. This is easier at least, because DEC actually sold
such a product, but I don't know if actual kits and documentation for it
still exists. In either case, I've got PDP-11s and PDP-8s that could be on
HECnet if they had networking software.
* A repository of software kits and manuals for old hardware. Yes, I know
there are all sorts of legal issues associated with this, but as a purely
pragmatic issue the main problem with putting up old hardware on the 'net is
finding software kits and manuals to install on it. A lot of this stuff is
already on the Internet here and there, so maybe we could just keep an
informal directory of pointers to other sites, rather than the actual
software or manual. Yes, I'm not the first one to suggest this idea, but
it's still a good one.
* Drivers to implement DECnet over IP tunnels (like Multinet) on other
OSes besides VMS. I can't see why we'd want to implement our own routing in
the bridge program when DECnet already has perfectly good routing - we'd
just be defeating the DECnet routing in order to replace it with our own.
Whew! Usually when I get urges like this I just go lie down until they go
away :-)
Bob
More ideas I just thought of:
Amiga - I've got a DECNET package here for my Amiga, unfortunately the license key only works with one node address - and I naturally have no idea what that address is. I'll have a play once my Amiga is up and running again though, the product looks pretty full-featured (comes with MAIL, CTERM and file transfer client and server).
Old-school (68K) Macs: I don't know where I got this idea but I think there might be a PATHWORKS client for classic Macs? Anybody ever use it?
Sampsa
On 21 Oct 2009, at 14:31, Steve Davidson wrote:
SNA can run on multiple physical transports using the gateways.
Serial, X.25, network adapter (specialized), etc are available. The
SPD's specify what is supported. Like Johnny said however, finding
some of this hardware may be a problem. One of the SPD's mentions an intermediate server that I have never seen/heard of.
Sort of reminds me of the fun and games (not to mention expense) to get
SNA to talk to Netware.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Wed 10/21/2009 09:27
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Next retro comms project?
I thought SNA mostly ran on Token Ring or something?
On 21 Oct 2009, at 14:24, Johnny Billquist wrote:
There was a SNA product for RSX as well. Don't know if it required
special hardware as well.
But I very much doubt anyone will be able to find that now anyway. :-)
Johnny
Steve Davidson wrote:
It can via the gateway software. I see several and it appears that
many
(if not all) require specialized hardware for the interconnection. A
search for (vms sna gateway) will point you to the SPD's.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 08:34
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Next retro comms project?
Can VMS talk SNA? If so, I'm in :)
Sampsa
On 21 Oct 2009, at 13:31, Fred wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Where should we go from here? Setting up our own virtual X.25
PSDN tunnelled over IP maybe? Something crazy with SNA?
SNA! SNA! :)
I could set up Hercules here running MVS 3.8J ... ;) I'm sure
the folks have been able to get SNA to work within the emulator.
I set up Hercules and MVS once, but other than a novelty, I
really didn't do much with it, because most of my associates
wouldn't know a mainframe if it ran them over. I think it would
be interesting to get something quasi-public (on HECmet) going.
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use
in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
<winmail.dat>
SNA can run on multiple physical transports using the gateways.
Serial, X.25, network adapter (specialized), etc are available. The
SPD's specify what is supported. Like Johnny said however, finding
some of this hardware may be a problem. One of the SPD's mentions an intermediate server that I have never seen/heard of.
Sort of reminds me of the fun and games (not to mention expense) to get
SNA to talk to Netware.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Wed 10/21/2009 09:27
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Next retro comms project?
I thought SNA mostly ran on Token Ring or something?
On 21 Oct 2009, at 14:24, Johnny Billquist wrote:
There was a SNA product for RSX as well. Don't know if it required
special hardware as well.
But I very much doubt anyone will be able to find that now anyway. :-)
Johnny
Steve Davidson wrote:
It can via the gateway software. I see several and it appears that
many
(if not all) require specialized hardware for the interconnection. A
search for (vms sna gateway) will point you to the SPD's.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 08:34
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Next retro comms project?
Can VMS talk SNA? If so, I'm in :)
Sampsa
On 21 Oct 2009, at 13:31, Fred wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Where should we go from here? Setting up our own virtual X.25
PSDN tunnelled over IP maybe? Something crazy with SNA?
SNA! SNA! :)
I could set up Hercules here running MVS 3.8J ... ;) I'm sure
the folks have been able to get SNA to work within the emulator.
I set up Hercules and MVS once, but other than a novelty, I
really didn't do much with it, because most of my associates
wouldn't know a mainframe if it ran them over. I think it would
be interesting to get something quasi-public (on HECmet) going.
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use
in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
I thought SNA mostly ran on Token Ring or something?
On 21 Oct 2009, at 14:24, Johnny Billquist wrote:
There was a SNA product for RSX as well. Don't know if it required special hardware as well.
But I very much doubt anyone will be able to find that now anyway. :-)
Johnny
Steve Davidson wrote:
It can via the gateway software. I see several and it appears that many
(if not all) require specialized hardware for the interconnection. A
search for (vms sna gateway) will point you to the SPD's.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 08:34
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Next retro comms project?
Can VMS talk SNA? If so, I'm in :)
Sampsa
On 21 Oct 2009, at 13:31, Fred wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Where should we go from here? Setting up our own virtual X.25 PSDN tunnelled over IP maybe? Something crazy with SNA?
SNA! SNA! :)
I could set up Hercules here running MVS 3.8J ... ;) I'm sure the folks have been able to get SNA to work within the emulator. I set up Hercules and MVS once, but other than a novelty, I really didn't do much with it, because most of my associates wouldn't know a mainframe if it ran them over. I think it would be interesting to get something quasi-public (on HECmet) going.
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
There was a SNA product for RSX as well. Don't know if it required special hardware as well.
But I very much doubt anyone will be able to find that now anyway. :-)
Johnny
Steve Davidson wrote:
It can via the gateway software. I see several and it appears that many
(if not all) require specialized hardware for the interconnection. A
search for (vms sna gateway) will point you to the SPD's.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 08:34
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Next retro comms project?
Can VMS talk SNA? If so, I'm in :)
Sampsa
On 21 Oct 2009, at 13:31, Fred wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Where should we go from here? Setting up our own virtual X.25 PSDN tunnelled over IP maybe? Something crazy with SNA?
SNA! SNA! :)
I could set up Hercules here running MVS 3.8J ... ;) I'm sure the folks have been able to get SNA to work within the emulator. I set up Hercules and MVS once, but other than a novelty, I really didn't do much with it, because most of my associates wouldn't know a mainframe if it ran them over. I think it would be interesting to get something quasi-public (on HECmet) going.
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
It can via the gateway software. I see several and it appears that many
(if not all) require specialized hardware for the interconnection. A
search for (vms sna gateway) will point you to the SPD's.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 08:34
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Next retro comms project?
Can VMS talk SNA? If so, I'm in :)
Sampsa
On 21 Oct 2009, at 13:31, Fred wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Where should we go from here? Setting up our own virtual X.25 PSDN
tunnelled over IP maybe? Something crazy with SNA?
SNA! SNA! :)
I could set up Hercules here running MVS 3.8J ... ;) I'm sure the
folks have been able to get SNA to work within the emulator. I set
up Hercules and MVS once, but other than a novelty, I really didn't
do much with it, because most of my associates wouldn't know a
mainframe if it ran them over. I think it would be interesting to
get something quasi-public (on HECmet) going.
Fred
----
Lets call it for what it is - "legacy" is a term that people use in a
polite but derogatory manner to imply that the future direction they
prefer is not that which they view as the current direction.
2009/10/21 Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>:
I'm starting to get concerned that HECnet is almost running TOO well, i.e.
there's not much left to tweak :)
Where should we go from here? Setting up our own virtual X.25 PSDN tunnelled
over IP maybe? Something crazy with SNA?
Sampsa
I have got hold of DECNET for IRIX, but I can't seem to overcome the
flexlm license manager. If anyone knows more about this I'd love to
get it running.
Dan
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Ok, I'll take a peek later on today - I think I've seen something re: SNA on the HP VMS site.
Wonder how hard it would be to hack the bridge to forward SNA packets...
Hmmmmm. I never thought of it that way. I (perhaps not) naturally assumed that it would integrate with DECNet somehow ...
Let me know what if anything that you find.
Fred
Ok, I'll take a peek later on today - I think I've seen something re: SNA on the HP VMS site.
Wonder how hard it would be to hack the bridge to forward SNA packets...
On 21 Oct 2009, at 13:39, Fred wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Can VMS talk SNA? If so, I'm in :)
I'm replying to you directly so we don't over-pollute the HECNet list.
It's faster for you - could you look around the SPL you have on RHESUS:: and see if there is an SNA gateway? I could have swore I saw one when I copied ALL-IN-1 off there but I'm not sure ...
If so, we can look at the docs and see how nasty of a setup it is and whether it prefers VAX or Alpha. I have both, but as of right now only the Alpha is running 24/7 and on HECNet.
Fred
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Can VMS talk SNA? If so, I'm in :)
I'm replying to you directly so we don't over-pollute the HECNet list.
It's faster for you - could you look around the SPL you have on RHESUS:: and see if there is an SNA gateway? I could have swore I saw one when I copied ALL-IN-1 off there but I'm not sure ...
If so, we can look at the docs and see how nasty of a setup it is and whether it prefers VAX or Alpha. I have both, but as of right now only the Alpha is running 24/7 and on HECNet.
Fred
