HECnet June 2008

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9 participants
42 discussions

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Andrew Back wrote: On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Johnny Billquist wrote: <<SNIP>> Yes, phase V should probably work in most cases. What you need to be aware of is that the DECnet routing license isn't included in the VMS hobbyist program, so unless you have some other license for that part, you will not be able to actually do this. Also, area routing is only supported on OpenVMS/VAX. No Alpha support. And finally, I'm not sure if phase V can do routing. It might be that you need phase IV for that part, but this is something others will have to verify. Oh :o( Having seen DVNETEXT in the PAKs I was thinking this is routing when of course it is DVNETRTG. Now I need to find a machine with DVNETRTG... I *really* wanted to play with Phase V routing also. In the meantime what are my other options for Phase IV routing? I'm guessing your bridge software plus an emulated system running software with routing else a hardware router of some description. With my bridge program, you don't need to have any routing nodes at all. Johnny

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by andy＠smokebelch.org

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Johnny Billquist wrote: <<SNIP>> Yes, phase V should probably work in most cases. What you need to be aware of is that the DECnet routing license isn't included in the VMS hobbyist program, so unless you have some other license for that part, you will not be able to actually do this. Also, area routing is only supported on OpenVMS/VAX. No Alpha support. And finally, I'm not sure if phase V can do routing. It might be that you need phase IV for that part, but this is something others will have to verify. Oh :o( Having seen DVNETEXT in the PAKs I was thinking this is routing when of course it is DVNETRTG. Now I need to find a machine with DVNETRTG... I *really* wanted to play with Phase V routing also. In the meantime what are my other options for Phase IV routing? I'm guessing your bridge software plus an emulated system running software with routing else a hardware router of some description. Cheers, Andrew

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Andrew Back skrev: On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Johnny Billquist wrote: Zane H. Healy wrote: I'm not sure how much traffic gets routed, but I've got a decent amount of bandwidth available as well. I've never really noticed any real hit on my bandwidth. So how do I get started with the node numbers and what-not? Hopefully Johnny will show up sometime soon, he is the central registry for such things. You need to figure out if you just need a node number or two, or an area. Most people don't need an area, and in order to have an area, you need an area router. I suspect most of us have our own areas for historical reasons (i.e. one of our systems was originally in such and such area). Right. If anyone wants an area, and have an area router, just say so. There are still plenty of unallocated areas, and I don't really see it as likely that we'll run out of them. I'd quite like to have a go at running an area. Will OpenVMS VAX 7.3 w/corresponding UCX install suffice for tunneling DECnet-over-IP (RFC1006) to other HECnet routers? Don't know the answer to that one, but Bob Armstrong and others do. I hope they'll chime in. If so I have a SimH instance on my home server I could use. And then a couple of Alpha boxen that are sometimes powered-up which it could route to. And if so am I right in thinking I could use Phase V but as long as I configure all it's Phase IV aspects appropriately? It's over 10 years since I was a VMS admin and it's all getting a bit hazy. Yes, phase V should probably work in most cases. What you need to be aware of is that the DECnet routing license isn't included in the VMS hobbyist program, so unless you have some other license for that part, you will not be able to actually do this. Also, area routing is only supported on OpenVMS/VAX. No Alpha support. And finally, I'm not sure if phase V can do routing. It might be that you need phase IV for that part, but this is something others will have to verify. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by andy＠smokebelch.org

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Johnny Billquist wrote: Zane H. Healy wrote: I'm not sure how much traffic gets routed, but I've got a decent amount of bandwidth available as well. I've never really noticed any real hit on my bandwidth. So how do I get started with the node numbers and what-not? Hopefully Johnny will show up sometime soon, he is the central registry for such things. You need to figure out if you just need a node number or two, or an area. Most people don't need an area, and in order to have an area, you need an area router. I suspect most of us have our own areas for historical reasons (i.e. one of our systems was originally in such and such area). Right. If anyone wants an area, and have an area router, just say so. There are still plenty of unallocated areas, and I don't really see it as likely that we'll run out of them. I'd quite like to have a go at running an area. Will OpenVMS VAX 7.3 w/corresponding UCX install suffice for tunneling DECnet-over-IP (RFC1006) to other HECnet routers? If so I have a SimH instance on my home server I could use. And then a couple of Alpha boxen that are sometimes powered-up which it could route to. And if so am I right in thinking I could use Phase V but as long as I configure all it's Phase IV aspects appropriately? It's over 10 years since I was a VMS admin and it's all getting a bit hazy. Cheers, Andrew

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by christine.caulfield＠googlemail.com

Johnny Billquist wrote: Bob Armstrong wrote: Johnny wrote: I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. But even tunneling DDCMP as you described still requires another machine to run the "freeware"? BTW, this is essentially what Multinet does, although it's not actually using DDCMP of course, but it does emulate a point-to-point connection (i.e. a DECnet line and circuit) that uses the Internet for the actual transport. Still, if you happen to have, say, a PDP-11 in the garage, there's still no way to put that -11 on HECnet without another machine to serve as an intermediary. For many people this isn't an issue because they already have a suitable machine anyway, but for those who just want to put one machine on HECnet it's a problem. Correct. However, DDCMP, as well as tunneling of it, is something you can probably accomplish using any system you can find. All you need is a plain serial port capable of running at rather slow speeds (I can't find a way of going above 9600 bps using RSX atleast, even if the hardware supports that.) Tunneling ethernet is far more complicated. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) My Linux nodes seem to talk with your RSX machines quite happily ... well, mostly ... -- Chrissie

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Zane H. Healy skrev: At 12:03 AM +0200 6/25/08, Johnny Billquist wrote: Bob Armstrong wrote: I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Don't know. But they do implement CTERM. But it only works against VMS. Same for NFT and PHONE. The implementors have only had VMS systems to test against, to their defence. And I think it might be a piece of reverse engineering on their part as well. I'm pretty sure I was able to connect to my RSX-11M 4.2 system back nearly 10 years ago using DECnet/Linux. As I recall it didn't work the best, but at least I was able to log in and do some stuff. 10 years ago? Wow. I didn't even know DECnet/Linux existed, much less worked, back in the 90s. But anyway, I tried it maybe five years ago, and was not encouraged. It barely worked for a short period before hanging, each time I tried it. But that's just what I can recollect now, and as I said, this was q number of years ago. Maybe things are better today. Anyone with a Linux machine on HECnet who cares to try doing a set host to MIM? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

At 12:03 AM +0200 6/25/08, Johnny Billquist wrote: Bob Armstrong wrote: I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Don't know. But they do implement CTERM. But it only works against VMS. Same for NFT and PHONE. The implementors have only had VMS systems to test against, to their defence. And I think it might be a piece of reverse engineering on their part as well. I'm pretty sure I was able to connect to my RSX-11M 4.2 system back nearly 10 years ago using DECnet/Linux. As I recall it didn't work the best, but at least I was able to log in and do some stuff. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Bob Armstrong wrote: I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Don't know. But they do implement CTERM. But it only works against VMS. Same for NFT and PHONE. The implementors have only had VMS systems to test against, to their defence. And I think it might be a piece of reverse engineering on their part as well. Johnny

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bob＠jfcl.com

I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Does the DECnet/Linux just not implement RTERM? Or are there deeper problems? Bob

16 years, 5 months

Quiet list and a question about setting up a system

by bqt＠softjar.se

Bob Armstrong wrote: Johnny wrote: I have actually also done DDCMP connections in the past. DDCMP is basically just a serial line, so I tunneled that traffic using some freeware with a little massaging. But even tunneling DDCMP as you described still requires another machine to run the "freeware"? BTW, this is essentially what Multinet does, although it's not actually using DDCMP of course, but it does emulate a point-to-point connection (i.e. a DECnet line and circuit) that uses the Internet for the actual transport. Still, if you happen to have, say, a PDP-11 in the garage, there's still no way to put that -11 on HECnet without another machine to serve as an intermediary. For many people this isn't an issue because they already have a suitable machine anyway, but for those who just want to put one machine on HECnet it's a problem. Correct. However, DDCMP, as well as tunneling of it, is something you can probably accomplish using any system you can find. All you need is a plain serial port capable of running at rather slow speeds (I can't find a way of going above 9600 bps using RSX atleast, even if the hardware supports that.) Tunneling ethernet is far more complicated. Good question. I know that I've had problems when running DECnet/Linux in the past, but that's definitely another possibility. I have one machine running Ubuntu w/DECnet here and haven't had any problems, but my machine is just an end node. Don't try to talk with anything but VMS, though... ;-) Johnny

16 years, 5 months

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HECnet June 2008