28 May
2016
28 May
'16
12:27 a.m.
Is anyone maintaining an up-to-date DECdns server based off of Johnny's nodedb?
I've recently set up an emulated VAX (simh) at 61.152 called ENKIDU,
running OpenVMS 7.3. I was hoping to use DECdns for simple node name
resolution. In the interim I'm using Jordi's DECdns server (which he
mentioned a while ago), but it doesn't appear to be as up to date with
the official nodedb as I'd like. :)
Thanks,
Mark
28 May
28 May
11:04 a.m.
I've not kept It up to date because no one was using it. I'll take a look... After
relearning how to do it :)
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 0:27, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> va escriure:
Is anyone maintaining an up-to-date DECdns server
based off of Johnny's nodedb?
I've recently set up an emulated VAX (simh) at 61.152 called ENKIDU,
running OpenVMS 7.3. I was hoping to use DECdns for simple node name
resolution. In the interim I'm using Jordi's DECdns server (which he
mentioned a while ago), but it doesn't appear to be as up to date with
the official nodedb as I'd like. :)
Thanks,
Mark
3:35 p.m.
I don't know much of anything about DECdns, but if there is something I
can do to help make it work better, let me know. I could automatically
provide notifications in different ways when the nodename database gets
updates, for example. Or provide it formatted in various ways...
Johnny
On 2016-05-28 11:04, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
I've not kept It up to date because no one was
using it. I'll take a look... After relearning how to do it :)
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 0:27, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> va escriure:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Is anyone maintaining an up-to-date DECdns server
based off of Johnny's nodedb?
I've recently set up an emulated VAX (simh) at 61.152 called ENKIDU,
running OpenVMS 7.3. I was hoping to use DECdns for simple node name
resolution. In the interim I'm using Jordi's DECdns server (which he
mentioned a while ago), but it doesn't appear to be as up to date with
the official nodedb as I'd like. :)
Thanks,
Mark
29 May
29 May
12:28 a.m.
Hi,
A flat file dump of the database will be enough. I'll handle the conversion to DECdns
import file and the update of the server.
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 15:35, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> va escriure:
I don't know much of anything about DECdns, but if
there is something I can do to help make it work better, let me know. I could
automatically provide notifications in different ways when the nodename database gets
updates, for example. Or provide it formatted in various ways...
Johnny
On 2016-05-28 11:04, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
wrote:
I've not kept It up to date because no one was using it. I'll take a look...
After relearning how to do it :)
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 0:27, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> va escriure:
> Is anyone maintaining an up-to-date DECdns server based off of Johnny's nodedb?
> I've recently set up an emulated VAX (simh) at 61.152 called ENKIDU,
> running OpenVMS 7.3. I was hoping to use DECdns for simple node name
> resolution. In the interim I'm using Jordi's DECdns server (which he
> mentioned a while ago), but it doesn't appear to be as up to date with
> the official nodedb as I'd like. :)
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 
12:57 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordi Guillaumes i Pons" <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name>
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECdns
Hi,
A flat file dump of the database will be enough. I'll handle the conversion
to DECdns import file and the update of the server.
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Just for curiosity. Now is DECdns part of what's called pathworks? Which is
TCP/IP over Phase V.
Bill
3:04 a.m.
On 2016-05-29 00:57, Bill Cunningham wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordi Guillaumes i Pons"
<jg at jordi.guillaumes.name>
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECdns
No, you are confusing and conflating a lot of things. DECdns is a part
of DECnet Phase V.
Pathworks is a product to do Phase IV on systems like Windows.
TCP/IP over DECnet (any phase) is not something I have never heard
anyone do, and I seriously doubt anyone would ever do that.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Hi,
A flat file dump of the database will be enough. I'll handle the
conversion to DECdns import file and the update of the server.
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
Just for curiosity. Now is DECdns part of what's called pathworks? Which
is TCP/IP over Phase V.
3:02 a.m.
On 2016-05-29 00:28, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
Hi,
A flat file dump of the database will be enough. I'll handle the conversion to DECdns
import file and the update of the server.
Uh...? I assume you want node names and node numbers. I produce those
today, in the form of a command file that can be used with NCP under
VMS. You can probably jusr process that thing.
MIM::US:[DECNET]FIX.COM
Whenevern I update the database, that file gets updated automatically as
a part of the process.
Johnny
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 15:35, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> va escriure:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I don't know much of anything about DECdns,
but if there is something I can do to help make it work better, let me know. I could
automatically provide notifications in different ways when the nodename database gets
updates, for example. Or provide it formatted in various ways...
Johnny
On 2016-05-28 11:04, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
wrote:
I've not kept It up to date because no one was using it. I'll take a look...
After relearning how to do it :)
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 0:27, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> va escriure:
> Is anyone maintaining an up-to-date DECdns server based off of Johnny's nodedb?
> I've recently set up an emulated VAX (simh) at 61.152 called ENKIDU,
> running OpenVMS 7.3. I was hoping to use DECdns for simple node name
> resolution. In the interim I'm using Jordi's DECdns server (which he
> mentioned a while ago), but it doesn't appear to be as up to date with
> the official nodedb as I'd like. :)
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
5 a.m.
DECdns serves a similar purpose to the real DNS, except it's
specifically for resolving DECnet node names to node addresses. I
could've just done a network COPY from MIM of the nodedb and hand
processed it into my LOCAL: domain, but I figured since Jordi was
already running a DECdns server for a few years, it's much simpler to
just point to him rather than having to manually update a local domain
from a remote file. :)
-M
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 6:35 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I don't know much of anything about DECdns, but if
there is something I can
do to help make it work better, let me know. I could automatically provide
notifications in different ways when the nodename database gets updates, for
example. Or provide it formatted in various ways...
Johnny
On 2016-05-28 11:04, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
I've not kept It up to date because no one was using it. I'll take a
look... After relearning how to do it :)
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 0:27, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> va escriure:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Is anyone maintaining an up-to-date DECdns server based off of Johnny's
nodedb?
I've recently set up an emulated VAX (simh) at 61.152 called ENKIDU,
running OpenVMS 7.3. I was hoping to use DECdns for simple node name
resolution. In the interim I'm using Jordi's DECdns server (which he
mentioned a while ago), but it doesn't appear to be as up to date with
the official nodedb as I'd like. :)
Thanks,
Mark
31 May
31 May
3:52 p.m.
On May 28, 2016, at 11:00 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at
phiber.com> wrote:
DECdns serves a similar purpose to the real DNS, except it's
specifically for resolving DECnet node names to node addresses.
That's a small part of what DECdns aimed to do. The bigger part (and something that
"real" DNS still struggles with) was to provide a fault tolerant, distributed,
dynamically updated name-address mapping.
At the time DECdns was designed, the Internet's DNS was basically just a text file
connected to a trivial daemon, with updates done by sending new versions of those text
files around. That was roughly the same level of primitiveness that the DECnet Phase II
through IV node name mappings had. DECdns delivered a distributed database with automatic
machinery for distributing updates reliably.
paul
4:41 p.m.
Paul...
On 2016-05-31 15:52, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
Paul, I'm sure there are a lot of things about DECdns that are both well
designed and interesting. Unfortunately I know pretty much nothing about
it. :-(
On May 28, 2016, at 11:00 PM, Mark Abene
<phiber at phiber.com> wrote:
DECdns serves a similar purpose to the real DNS, except it's
specifically for resolving DECnet node names to node addresses.
That's a small part of what DECdns aimed to do. The bigger part (and something that
"real" DNS still struggles with) was to provide a fault tolerant, distributed,
dynamically updated name-address mapping. At the time DECdns was designed, the Internet's
DNS was basically just a text file connected to a trivial daemon, with updates done by
sending new versions of those text files around. That was roughly the same level of
primitiveness that the DECnet Phase II through IV node name mappings had. DECdns
delivered a distributed database with automatic machinery for distributing updates
reliably.
However, your description and/or understanding of DNS seems to be very
weird. DNS have never been just a text file connected to a daemon. It
sounds like you are conflating DNS and the pre-DNS /etc/hosts (or
HOSTS.TXT) file, that was used in the early days. Which might match the
time frame of DECdns. The HOSTS.TXT file was not even connected to any
daemon. Your programs were expected to just read and parse the file
themselves, as needed. Or at least on the systems I know about. Exactly
how this worked could differ from one system to the next. But there
wasn't anything called "DNS" at that time.
DNS is distributed, with automatic updating of secondaries from
primaries. It is rather fault tolerant, and very scalable.
The one thing "lacking" have been an easy way of adding new information
programatically, while at the same time ensure security and data
validity. So you often still have the source of information for the
primary server being managed in a text file. But that file is not sent
around to other servers of the domain. DNS takes care of distribution
and replication itself.
This adding have become a larger issue over time, as people are
expecting to just plug in devices to the network, and then be able to
refer to them by some name that should pop into the local DNS server.
Johnny
5:10 p.m.
On 05/31/2016 10:41 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Actually, it actually was just a text file connected to a daemon. I'm
not talking about HOSTS.TXT, I'm talking about BIND. And, at least in
the case of master servers, this is still the case. Slave servers no
longer store their replicated data as text files, and even when they
did, it was a bit more complex than simply "sending the files
around"...they were (and are) parsed, transferred in binary form, and
re-created on the other end. Except now, they're stored in a binary
form in the filesystem on the other end. But Paul's description is, in
essence, correct.
The daemon has been anything but trivial for 20+ years, and is
unbelievably complex now.
At the time
DECdns was designed, the Internet's DNS was basically just
a text file connected to a trivial daemon, with updates done by
sending new versions of those text files around. That was roughly the
same level of primitiveness that the DECnet Phase II through IV node
name mappings had. DECdns delivered a distributed database with
automatic machinery for distributing updates reliably.
However, your description and/or understanding of DNS seems to be very
weird. DNS have never been just a text file connected to a daemon. It
sounds like you are conflating DNS and the pre-DNS /etc/hosts (or
HOSTS.TXT) file, that was used in the early days. Which might match the
time frame of DECdns. The HOSTS.TXT file was not even connected to any
daemon. Your programs were expected to just read and parse the file
themselves, as needed. Or at least on the systems I know about. Exactly
how this worked could differ from one system to the next. But there
wasn't anything called "DNS" at that time. DNS is distributed, with automatic updating of
secondaries from
primaries. It is rather fault tolerant, and very scalable.
The one thing "lacking" have been an easy way of adding new information
programatically, while at the same time ensure security and data
validity. So you often still have the source of information for the
primary server being managed in a text file. But that file is not sent
around to other servers of the domain. DNS takes care of distribution
and replication itself.
All of that works quite well now. The security of dynamic updates
could be better, but it works, and signed zones work well (but are
difficult to set up).
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
5:50 p.m.
On 2016-05-31 17:10, Dave McGuire wrote:
Yeah, I know this has been improved lately, but this has, for a long
time, been one of the biggest complaints about DNS.
Johnny
On 05/31/2016 10:41 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Actually, it actually was just a text file connected to a daemon. I'm
not talking about HOSTS.TXT, I'm talking about BIND. And, at least in
the case of master servers, this is still the case. Slave servers no
longer store their replicated data as text files, and even when they
did, it was a bit more complex than simply "sending the files
around"...they were (and are) parsed, transferred in binary form, and
re-created on the other end. Except now, they're stored in a binary
form in the filesystem on the other end. But Paul's description is, in
essence, correct.
The daemon has been anything but trivial for 20+ years, and is
unbelievably complex now.
The problem with Paul's description was not what the local backing store
looked like, but how it was distributed. As you yourself says, it is not
distributed as a plain text file.
The comparison to how nodenames in DECnet was done is very much on par
with the old HOSTS.TXT file, but not at all comparable with DNS.
At the
time DECdns was designed, the Internet's DNS was basically just
a text file connected to a trivial daemon, with updates done by
sending new versions of those text files around. That was roughly the
same level of primitiveness that the DECnet Phase II through IV node
name mappings had. DECdns delivered a distributed database with
automatic machinery for distributing updates reliably.
However, your description and/or understanding of DNS seems to be very
weird. DNS have never been just a text file connected to a daemon. It
sounds like you are conflating DNS and the pre-DNS /etc/hosts (or
HOSTS.TXT) file, that was used in the early days. Which might match the
time frame of DECdns. The HOSTS.TXT file was not even connected to any
daemon. Your programs were expected to just read and parse the file
themselves, as needed. Or at least on the systems I know about. Exactly
how this worked could differ from one system to the next. But there
wasn't anything called "DNS" at that time. DNS is
distributed, with automatic updating of secondaries from
primaries. It is rather fault tolerant, and very scalable.
The one thing "lacking" have been an easy way of adding new information
programatically, while at the same time ensure security and data
validity. So you often still have the source of information for the
primary server being managed in a text file. But that file is not sent
around to other servers of the domain. DNS takes care of distribution
and replication itself.
All of that works quite well now. The security of dynamic updates
could be better, but it works, and signed zones work well (but are
difficult to set up).
29 May
29 May
4:56 a.m.
Thanks Jordi, hope it's not too much trouble. I decided to use DECdns
(at least as a client), since OpenVMS shifted to the NCL command, and
there is no equivalent to the simple "COPY KNOWN NODES FROM 1.13 TO
BOTH", not even in the interim emulated (fake) "NCP" (which isn't the
real NCP, not even in DECnet-Plus anymore).
Regards,
Mark
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 2:04 AM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
<jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
I've not kept It up to date because no one was
using it. I'll take a look... After relearning how to do it :)
Jordi Guillaumes Pons
El 28 maig 2016, a les 0:27, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> va escriure:
Is anyone maintaining an up-to-date DECdns server
based off of Johnny's nodedb?
I've recently set up an emulated VAX (simh) at 61.152 called ENKIDU,
running OpenVMS 7.3. I was hoping to use DECdns for simple node name
resolution. In the interim I'm using Jordi's DECdns server (which he
mentioned a while ago), but it doesn't appear to be as up to date with
the official nodedb as I'd like. :)
Thanks,
Mark
2889
days inactive
2893
days old
12 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
billcun＠suddenlink.net -
bqt＠softjar.se -
jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
Paul_Koning＠Dell.com -
phiber＠phiber.com