Hi, I've been playing with RSTS/E for a short while, particularly BASIC PLUS. I've noted that, logged into account [1,2] I can issue HELP from within BASIC and it's all fine. From a non-privileged account I created, HELP within BASIC gives me a '?Protection violation' but it seems that all the .HLP files relevant to BASIC have the correct <40> file protection. Am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated.

Command processing in RSTS depends on which runtime system (more precisely, "keyboard monitor") you're currently in. If you're in DCL, standard DCL commands (like "copy") are understood. "help" is another standard DCL command. In most other runtime systems, like BASIC, there are a few built-in commands that relate more to the purpose of that runtime system (like "SAVE" or "OLD"). In addition, keyboard monitors normally understand any of the defined "system commands" -- also called "CCL commands". Those are commands defined via the create command/system DCL operation, and you can see them with show command/system. For example: $ show com/sys BCK- = SY:[ 0,10 ]RMSBCK.TSK /LINE=0 BYE- = SY:[ 1,2 ]LOGOUT.TSK /LINE=0 /PRIVILEGE CNV- = SY:[ 0,10 ]RMSCNV.TSK /LINE=0 DI-RECTORY = SY:[ 1,2 ]DIRECT.TSK /LINE=CCL /PRIVILEGE ... In my system, "help" is not shown there, so while DCL knows it, other RTS would not. If your system does respond to it, what is the command definition? As for [0,2]help.tsk, that's a strange protection code. Mine has <104> and I can see no reason why that program should be privileged. paul <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote: [0,2] and it has protection <232> (privileged, execute, world readonly, group+owner read/write) Behalf Of Paul Koning <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote: PLUS. I?ve noted that, logged into account [1,2] I can issue HELP from within BASIC and it?s all fine. From a non-privileged account I created, HELP within BASIC gives me a ??Protection violation? but it seems that all the .HLP files relevant to BASIC have the correct <40> file protection. Am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated. at startup, that is handled by executing a program. need to be protected <40> for that to work. But in addition, the program that handles the command has to be executable by non-privileged users. So look in [0,*] or [1,2] for a help.* file (help.tsk, help.bac, help.sav perhaps). It has to be executable (64 bit set in the protection code). So a typical protection code would be 104. > > paul

Thanks Johnny, It?s [1,2]bp2rfa.hlp and its protection was 48. I?ve set it to 40 and a non-privileged, non [1,*] account can now see help in the basic-2-plus env. The whole RSTS/E V10.1 and BASIC-2-PLUS installations are entirely default. Apart from adding DECNET/E and enabling LAT etc., nothing else should be other than default. Weird. Thanks again Keith *From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] *On Behalf Of *Johnny Billquist *Sent:* 17 September 2018 18:36 *To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE; Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> *Subject:* Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 BASIC-2-PLUS problem All that said - if the op is actually using basic+2 then help is a builtin command in the interactive environment. Furthermore the basic+2 builtin help uses an extra file for fast lookups into the help file, so this additional file could also be the problem. I'd need to check when I'm back home what the exact name of this file is, but something like bp2hlp.rfa maybe? Johnny Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net <mailto:paulkoning at comcast.net>> skrev: (17 september 2018 16:38:37 CEST) Command processing in RSTS depends on which runtime system (more precisely, "keyboard monitor") you're currently in. If you're in DCL, standard DCL commands (like "copy") are understood.? "help" is another standard DCL command. In most other runtime systems, like BASIC, there are a few built-in commands that relate more to the purpose of that runtime system (like "SAVE" or "OLD"). In addition, keyboard monitors normally understand any of the defined "system commands" -- also called "CCL commands".?? Those are commands defined via the create command/system DCL operation, and you can see them with show command/system.? For example: $ show com/sys BCK-?????? =? SY:[? 0,10 ]RMSBCK.TSK /LINE=0 BYE-?????? =? SY:[? 1,2? ]LOGOUT.TSK /LINE=0??? /PRIVILEGE CNV-?????? =? SY:[? 0,10 ]RMSCNV.TSK /LINE=0 DI-RECTORY =? SY:[? 1,2? ]DIRECT.TSK /LINE=CCL? /PRIVILEGE ... In my system, "help" is not shown there, so while DCL knows it, other RTS would not.? If your system does respond to it, what is the command definition? As for [0,2]help.tsk, that's a strange protection code.? Mine has <104> and I can see no reason why that program should be privileged. ????? paul On Sep 17, 2018, at 10:30 AM, Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org <mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>> wrote: Hi Paul, Thanks for the info. Other than help.hlp, there is only help.tsk in [0,2] and it has protection <232> (privileged, execute, world readonly, group+owner read/write) After a backup, I?ll do some further experimentation. Regards Keith From:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Paul Koning Sent: 17 September 2018 14:01 To:hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Subject: Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 BASIC-2-PLUS problem On Sep 14, 2018, at 5:26 PM, Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org <mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>> wrote: Hi, I?ve been playing with RSTS/E for a short while, particularly BASIC PLUS. I?ve noted that, logged into account [1,2] I can issue HELP from within BASIC and it?s all fine. From a non-privileged account I created, HELP within BASIC gives me a ??Protection violation? but it seems that all the .HLP files relevant to BASIC have the correct <40> file protection. Am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Keith "help" is most likely a CCL command -- a command defined, typically at startup, that is handled by executing a program. You're right that the actual content in in the *.hlp files, and they need to be protected <40> for that to work.? But in addition, the program that handles the command has to be executable by non-privileged users.? So look in [0,*] or [1,2] for a help.* file (help.tsk, help.bac, help.sav perhaps).? It has to be executable (64 bit set in the protection code).? So a typical protection code would be 104. ????????????paul -- Skickat fr?n min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Urs?kta min f?ordighet.

On Sep 17, 2018, at 14:10, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: Glad to hear that solved it. I asked already from the start if it was BASIC+ or BASIC+2, because the difference is important. And it really is BASIC+2, and not BASIC2+. :-) As for why your installation happened that way, I have no clue. Did you install from the distribution tapes yourself, or is this some image someone else created and you got a copy from? And did you use the proper installation tools, or did you extract files yourself from the tape and placed in various directories? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

On Sep 17, 2018, at 2:42 PM, Steve Davidson <steve at davidson.net> wrote: Keith, I will make all the kits I have available. I don?t remember if RSTS supports network installs but we will figure something out. -Steve Davidson

On 17 Sep 2018, at 21:11, Steve Davidson <steve at davidson.net> wrote: Keith, Is your node on HECnet? If so, can I login? -Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of Keith Halewood Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 14:25 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: RE: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 BASIC-2-PLUS problem Thanks Steve, Having a look around now. I've not been able to install Fortran-77 locally possibly due to a mangled tape image. Keith -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Steve Davidson Sent: 17 September 2018 19:18 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 BASIC-2-PLUS problem You are welcome to login to Pluto::[200,200] to compare systems. -Steve Sent from my iPhone

Thanks Johnny, It?s [1,2]bp2rfa.hlp and its protection was 48. I?ve set it to 40 and a non-privileged, non [1,*] account can now see help in the basic-2-plus env. The whole RSTS/E V10.1 and BASIC-2-PLUS installations are entirely default. Apart from adding DECNET/E and enabling LAT etc., nothing else should be other than default. Weird. Thanks again Keith *From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] *On Behalf Of *Johnny Billquist *Sent:* 17 September 2018 18:36 *To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE; Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> *Subject:* Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 BASIC-2-PLUS problem All that said - if the op is actually using basic+2 then help is a builtin command in the interactive environment. Furthermore the basic+2 builtin help uses an extra file for fast lookups into the help file, so this additional file could also be the problem. I'd need to check when I'm back home what the exact name of this file is, but something like bp2hlp.rfa maybe? Johnny Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net <mailto:paulkoning at comcast.net>> skrev: (17 september 2018 16:38:37 CEST) Command processing in RSTS depends on which runtime system (more precisely, "keyboard monitor") you're currently in. If you're in DCL, standard DCL commands (like "copy") are understood.? "help" is another standard DCL command. In most other runtime systems, like BASIC, there are a few built-in commands that relate more to the purpose of that runtime system (like "SAVE" or "OLD"). In addition, keyboard monitors normally understand any of the defined "system commands" -- also called "CCL commands".?? Those are commands defined via the create command/system DCL operation, and you can see them with show command/system.? For example: $ show com/sys BCK-?????? =? SY:[? 0,10 ]RMSBCK.TSK /LINE=0 BYE-?????? =? SY:[? 1,2? ]LOGOUT.TSK /LINE=0??? /PRIVILEGE CNV-?????? =? SY:[? 0,10 ]RMSCNV.TSK /LINE=0 DI-RECTORY =? SY:[? 1,2? ]DIRECT.TSK /LINE=CCL? /PRIVILEGE ... In my system, "help" is not shown there, so while DCL knows it, other RTS would not.? If your system does respond to it, what is the command definition? As for [0,2]help.tsk, that's a strange protection code.? Mine has <104> and I can see no reason why that program should be privileged. ????? paul On Sep 17, 2018, at 10:30 AM, Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org <mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>> wrote: Hi Paul, Thanks for the info. Other than help.hlp, there is only help.tsk in [0,2] and it has protection <232> (privileged, execute, world readonly, group+owner read/write) After a backup, I?ll do some further experimentation. Regards Keith From:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Paul Koning Sent: 17 September 2018 14:01 To:hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE> Subject: Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E 10.1 BASIC-2-PLUS problem On Sep 14, 2018, at 5:26 PM, Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org <mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>> wrote: Hi, I?ve been playing with RSTS/E for a short while, particularly BASIC PLUS. I?ve noted that, logged into account [1,2] I can issue HELP from within BASIC and it?s all fine. From a non-privileged account I created, HELP within BASIC gives me a ??Protection violation? but it seems that all the .HLP files relevant to BASIC have the correct <40> file protection. Am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Keith "help" is most likely a CCL command -- a command defined, typically at startup, that is handled by executing a program. You're right that the actual content in in the *.hlp files, and they need to be protected <40> for that to work.? But in addition, the program that handles the command has to be executable by non-privileged users.? So look in [0,*] or [1,2] for a help.* file (help.tsk, help.bac, help.sav perhaps).? It has to be executable (64 bit set in the protection code).? So a typical protection code would be 104. ????????????paul -- Skickat fr?n min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Urs?kta min f?ordighet.