Thanks Johnny! Sign me up for the updates mail please. It really simplifies my update scripts.
VMS and pyDECnet updates work as advertised. My RSTS node (PIRSTS), whether I'm using COPY or NFT to execute your "grab" instruction 😊 always result in access failure:
PIRSTS::[1,2]$ copy mim::hecnet:fix.rst *
Node: MIM
User:
Password:
System Password:
?NFT -- Connection rejected to node MIM
?NFT -- Access not permitted
It may be some misconfiguration at my end, but my local inter-node DECnet copies work fine from and to RSTS
/Wilm
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2023 2:32 PM
To: 'The Hobbyist DECnet mailing list' <hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se>
Subject: [HECnet] Nodename updating
I've seen/heard of various stories about how people update their nodename databases on their machines, hacking together scripts, and processing files. So I figured I should write a small mail about the topic (I should create a web-page with this information as well).
The main/basic point is that people are creating work for themselves they really don't need.
Exactly how you update your nodename database on your machine depends on what OS you are running, but there are basically prepared tools and scripts already existing for pretty much any scenario. And if you happen to have a system or need not currently covered, I can easily create one for you as well.
But before going into the solutions, let me explain a bit about the source of the data here.
DECnet phase IV do not have a centralized nodename system like DNS. Each node in the DECnet network has its own nodename database, and every machine can have its own name for another machine, independent of what that other machine thinks its own nodename is.
However, in order to make it easier for multiple people and machines to talk, it helps if everyone have a somewhat similar database. And here is where the nodename database in MIM comes it. The nodename database that I have on MIM is not the regular DECnet nodename database. Instead I'm using DATATRIEVE to maintain a nodename database, which contains more information than just the number and name. It contains the owner, information about the software and hardware of the node, the location, and when things were updated. This database is what is queried when someone goes to http://mim.stupi.net/nodedb . And that page is generated by just making queries in DATATRIEVE. If someone have a host with DATATRIEVE on it, it is even possible to remotely access this DATATRIEVE database over DECnet (you'll only have read-only access).
I have been considering possibly adding a web interface for people to possibly be able to update their own information remotely, but so far that's been a low priority thing. Maybe one day...
From this DATATRIEVE database I can then generate the DECnet nodename database on MIM. This is a simple makefile actually. Whenever I run it, it will create a bunch of different files (I'll get to that in a moment), and detect if any changes have happened on the DECnet level of things. If so, it will send a mail to people who have requested it, informing them that the nodename database have been updated, and they should update the nodename database of their own machines.
I hope this makes it apparent that creating various files based on the nodename database is actually very simple. This is in a sense what DATATRIEVE is good at. Creating reports is sortof what all these output files are.
So - what files do I create today? Well, here is a short list:
FIX.CMD - This is a script file suitable for RSX systems using CFE.
However, it's sortof specially tailored for MIM, so it's not a file I would recommend anyone else to use.
FIX.COM - This is a script for VMS systems using phase IV.
FIX.PHV - This is a script for VMS systems using phase V.
FIX.IMP - This is a script for VMS for anyone using DECdns.
FIX.T20 - This is a script for TOPS-20.
HECNET.PY - This is a definition file for PyDECnet.
FIX.RST - This is a script for RSTS/E.
NODENAMES.DAT - This is basically just the basic information is a simple output form from DATATRIEVE. It exist mostly for historical reasons, but I understand that lots of people actually take this file, and then write code to process, extract and apply information from this file.
In addition, some systems can directly import nodenames from another machine on DECnet, meaning you do not have to fetch and run any scripts at all.
So here is the actioins you need to do on each system in a summarized form:
RSX:
In RSX, there is a tool called NNC which copies definitions from another node. Copy over MIM::HECNET:NNC.BAT which is a batch file you can use which does all the work of importing the latest definitions from MIM and updating your local system. All you need to do is just "SUBMIT NNC.BAT"
and you are done.
VMS:
With phase IV, the node copy capability is build into NCP. All you need to do is: "NCP COPY KNOWN NODES FROM MIM TO BOTH" and you are done.
With phase V, copy over FIX.PHV and run it, or just directly run it from MIM like this: "@MIM::HECNET:FIX.PHV"
If you run DECdns, grab FIX.IMP, and run it with whatever tool is used to manage this (sorry that I can't help more, I don't really have any experience with DECdns).
TOPS-20:
Grab MIM::HECNET:FIX.T20 and run in in the NCP submode of OPR (if I remember the setup correctly).
RSTS/E:
Grab MIM::HECNET:FIX.RST, and run it with "@FIX.RST".
PyDECnet:
Fetch hecnet.py by doing "wget mim.stupi.net/hecnet.py". Place that
where you have configured PyDECnet to get the nodenames from, and you
are good (not sure if you need to restart PyDECnet).
Now. If you have some other system with some specific format you need,
just let me know, and I'll create such a file as well. It's trivial for
me to do this from DATATRIEVE. If you spot something wrong/bad in some
file created today, let me know, and we'll fix it. If you see any errors
or omissions in the information in this mail, let me know, and I'll get
it corrected. I will create a web page with this information as well.
If you want to get a mail whenever the nodename database is updated,
just let me know and I'll add you to the list.
And HECnet is slowly growing. Occasionally a completely new person/site
gets connected. Occasionally people add more nodes. The online presence
seems pretty constant. At the moment 19 areas are online. In area 1,
currently there are 19 machines online. Looking at Paul's HECnet map
(http://akdesign.dyndns.org:8080/map), there are machines online in
quite different locations, covering a large part of the world. I find
this cool, and even though there isn't a lot being done, it's still fun.
Well. Have a nice weekend everyone, and I hope some people find this
information useful.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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