El 15/05/2014, a les 23.41, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
I need the /physical/ drive size! Different systems give me different sizes.
Oh, I think I'm starting to understand. Are you trying to use a raw device in simh? :)
That is COOL! :)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
El 15/05/2014, a les 23.37, <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> va escriure:
Hm... disks have controller-specific boot blocks, but I thought tapes were universal. Yes, the code says that showed up in V9.1. So I wonder why it would not work for you.
I'm thinking about a simh bug. SIMH v39 boots from that tape mounting it under tq0:
sim> att tq0 rstse_v10_1_install_sep10_1992.tap
sim> b tq0
Performing limited hardware scan.
RSTS V10.1 (MU0) INIT V10.1-0L
Today's date? 15-MAY-14
Current time? 23:41
Installing RSTS on a new system disk? <Yes>
15-May-14 11:41 PM
Disk?
I know Mark has fiddled a lot with the massbus drivers, so to find the "failed" commit will be a long task. I'm for it anyway... Reporting the bug as i'm writting this.
https://github.com/simh/simh/issues/139
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
I need the /physical/ drive size! Different systems give me different
sizes.
This, of course, should not happen. The host should query the drive
for its size, in blocks...I don't know why a given host OS would give
you different numbers.
It is listed as 2G...the MicroVAX 3100 I wrote it with claims it's ~570M
I see from private email that you had started up the command interface
on your Qbus SCSI host adapter. Is there a "scan the bus" command or
something like that in there, that might tell you the drive size in
blocks, from the perspective of that controller? Alternatively, what I
do (as I mentioned in private mail) is to boot 2.11BSD from a different
device and look at the ra<n> probe messages for the device size.
It scans it...but it doesn't seem to list the size in blocks. :(
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 05/15/2014 05:41 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On May 15, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an
RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to
boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it
to do).
You mean you have a real drive, and you want to copy it to a disk
image file and configure that as an RA file of user-specified size?
That will work fine. RSTS can handle disks of any size up to a
limit (the RP07 is somewhat below that limit, I d have to dig a bit
to find the actual number). If you can just dd the disk to a file,
that file should serve.
I want to copy an image to a real drive.
Alternatively, you can always use a larger disk so long as you don t
cross a power of two. RSTS addresses disks by disk clusters which
are 16 bit numbers, and the file system layout starts from a given
disk cluster size. So if you have a pack with 70k sectors, you can
drop it into another pack of 90k sectors but not in one of 130k
sectors because that one has a DCS double that of the original.
The problem is I have NO IDEA just how big this drive is. Systems
tend to disagree about its size...I suppose I can sacrifice the RZ23
for this.
Find yourself a copy of my utility rstsflx and ask it to ident the
image. It will tell you the file system information. That will tell
you what sort of disk it can go onto.
I need the /physical/ drive size! Different systems give me different
sizes.
This, of course, should not happen. The host should query the drive
for its size, in blocks...I don't know why a given host OS would give
you different numbers.
I see from private email that you had started up the command interface
on your Qbus SCSI host adapter. Is there a "scan the bus" command or
something like that in there, that might tell you the drive size in
blocks, from the perspective of that controller? Alternatively, what I
do (as I mentioned in private mail) is to boot 2.11BSD from a different
device and look at the ra<n> probe messages for the device size.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 05/15/2014 05:28 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an
RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to
boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it
to do).
You mean you have a real drive, and you want to copy it to a disk
image file and configure that as an RA file of user-specified size?
That will work fine. RSTS can handle disks of any size up to a limit
(the RP07 is somewhat below that limit, I d have to dig a bit to find
the actual number). If you can just dd the disk to a file, that file
should serve.
Alternatively, you can always use a larger disk so long as you don t
cross a power of two. RSTS addresses disks by disk clusters which
are 16 bit numbers, and the file system layout starts from a given
disk cluster size. So if you have a pack with 70k sectors, you can
drop it into another pack of 90k sectors but not in one of 130k
sectors because that one has a DCS double that of the original.
Are you certain that this is the only limitation? I've had the
crash-on-boot problems when they were off by quite a bit less than a
power of two. Since I found that problem the hard way, I always make
images (via simh "rauser=<n>") using the exact size of the target
physical disk.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On May 15, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
You mean you have a real drive, and you want to copy it to a disk image file and configure that as an RA file of user-specified size? That will work fine. RSTS can handle disks of any size up to a limit (the RP07 is somewhat below that limit, I d have to dig a bit to find the actual number). If you can just dd the disk to a file, that file should serve.
I want to copy an image to a real drive.
Alternatively, you can always use a larger disk so long as you don t cross a power of two. RSTS addresses disks by disk clusters which are 16 bit numbers, and the file system layout starts from a given disk cluster size. So if you have a pack with 70k sectors, you can drop it into another pack of 90k sectors but not in one of 130k sectors because that one has a DCS double that of the original.
The problem is I have NO IDEA just how big this drive is. Systems tend to disagree about its size...I suppose I can sacrifice the RZ23 for this.
Find yourself a copy of my utility rstsflx and ask it to ident the image. It will tell you the file system information. That will tell you what sort of disk it can go onto.
I need the /physical/ drive size! Different systems give me different sizes.
If it doesn t give the whole answer, ask some more and I ll dig deeper to find the things you need to look at. Oh yes, the first item would be the file size of file [0,1]satt.sys.
paul
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On May 15, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
You mean you have a real drive, and you want to copy it to a disk image file and configure that as an RA file of user-specified size? That will work fine. RSTS can handle disks of any size up to a limit (the RP07 is somewhat below that limit, I d have to dig a bit to find the actual number). If you can just dd the disk to a file, that file should serve.
I want to copy an image to a real drive.
Alternatively, you can always use a larger disk so long as you don t cross a power of two. RSTS addresses disks by disk clusters which are 16 bit numbers, and the file system layout starts from a given disk cluster size. So if you have a pack with 70k sectors, you can drop it into another pack of 90k sectors but not in one of 130k sectors because that one has a DCS double that of the original.
The problem is I have NO IDEA just how big this drive is. Systems tend to disagree about its size...I suppose I can sacrifice the RZ23 for this.
Find yourself a copy of my utility rstsflx and ask it to ident the image. It will tell you the file system information. That will tell you what sort of disk it can go onto.
If it doesn t give the whole answer, ask some more and I ll dig deeper to find the things you need to look at. Oh yes, the first item would be the file size of file [0,1]satt.sys.
paul
On May 15, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
El 15/05/2014, a les 23.22, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
sim> b tq
TQ I/O error: Undefined error: 0
I/O error, PC: 157456 (TST 157520)
Use a TS device, and don't forget to set it to read-locked.
Hm... disks have controller-specific boot blocks, but I thought tapes were universal. Yes, the code says that showed up in V9.1. So I wonder why it would not work for you.
paul
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
Great!
Now for the disk issue, I'm using an RP04 connected to RP0. It shows as "DB0:" in RSTS, and it has plenty of space for the OS, even being of "just" 84MB:
My problem is unknown disk size. ;)
$ show disk
Disk Structure:
Dsk Open Size Free Clu Err Name Level Comments
DB0 22 171796 124272 72% 4 0 RSTS11 1.2 Pub, DLW
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
You mean you have a real drive, and you want to copy it to a disk image file and configure that as an RA file of user-specified size? That will work fine. RSTS can handle disks of any size up to a limit (the RP07 is somewhat below that limit, I d have to dig a bit to find the actual number). If you can just dd the disk to a file, that file should serve.
I want to copy an image to a real drive.
Alternatively, you can always use a larger disk so long as you don t cross a power of two. RSTS addresses disks by disk clusters which are 16 bit numbers, and the file system layout starts from a given disk cluster size. So if you have a pack with 70k sectors, you can drop it into another pack of 90k sectors but not in one of 130k sectors because that one has a DCS double that of the original.
The problem is I have NO IDEA just how big this drive is. Systems tend to disagree about its size...I suppose I can sacrifice the RZ23 for this.
If the replacement disk is a fair amount larger, clean ( disk rebuild ) which is RSTS fsck may complain that the free cluster bitmap file is too small. That won t prevent reading but it will make the disk read-only.
It gives an initialisation error about it being > a power of 2.
paul
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
El 15/05/2014, a les 23.25, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
El 15/05/2014, a les 23.22, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
sim> b tq
TQ I/O error: Undefined error: 0
I/O error, PC: 157456 (TST 157520)
Use a TS device, and don't forget to set it to read-locked.
Ahhh. That does it. Thanks!
Great!
Now for the disk issue, I'm using an RP04 connected to RP0. It shows as "DB0:" in RSTS, and it has plenty of space for the OS, even being of "just" 84MB:
$ show disk
Disk Structure:
Dsk Open Size Free Clu Err Name Level Comments
DB0 22 171796 124272 72% 4 0 RSTS11 1.2 Pub, DLW
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On May 15, 2014, at 5:14 PM, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
El 15/05/2014, a les 5.15, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
The RZ25 didn't have the disk to copy the image I had ready.
Thankfully...it failed (apparently something went short as it being plugged in makes the VAX /fail to power on/) so I can use my 526M drive!
Hi Cory,
I'm perhaps a little bit late catching this train, but... what was the original problem you are trying to solve using this kind of hardware sorcery? Your first post mentioned something along you being unable to install RSTS/E under simh from tape... could you be more specific? I have a running RSTS/E installation which I built from an install tape, and perhaps I could help you to fix the initial problem which triggered all this disk size/connection/style thing...
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
You mean you have a real drive, and you want to copy it to a disk image file and configure that as an RA file of user-specified size? That will work fine. RSTS can handle disks of any size up to a limit (the RP07 is somewhat below that limit, I d have to dig a bit to find the actual number). If you can just dd the disk to a file, that file should serve.
Alternatively, you can always use a larger disk so long as you don t cross a power of two. RSTS addresses disks by disk clusters which are 16 bit numbers, and the file system layout starts from a given disk cluster size. So if you have a pack with 70k sectors, you can drop it into another pack of 90k sectors but not in one of 130k sectors because that one has a DCS double that of the original.
If the replacement disk is a fair amount larger, clean ( disk rebuild ) which is RSTS fsck may complain that the free cluster bitmap file is too small. That won t prevent reading but it will make the disk read-only.
paul
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
El 15/05/2014, a les 23.22, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
sim> b tq
TQ I/O error: Undefined error: 0
I/O error, PC: 157456 (TST 157520)
Use a TS device, and don't forget to set it to read-locked.
Ahhh. That does it. Thanks!
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
El 15/05/2014, a les 23.22, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
sim> b tq
TQ I/O error: Undefined error: 0
I/O error, PC: 157456 (TST 157520)
Use a TS device, and don't forget to set it to read-locked.
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/15/2014 05:14 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER
to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and
install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
I can assist with that later tonight, unless Jordi can help sooner.
You know the tape needs to be write-locked for a RSTS/E install, right?
Yeah.
local: rstse_v10_1_install_sep10_1992.tap.bz2 remote: rstse_v10_1_install_sep10_1992.tap.bz2
200 EPRT command successful. Consider using EPSV.
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for rstse_v10_1_install_sep10_1992.tap.bz2 (9704614 bytes).
100% |**********************************************************************************************************************************| 9477 KiB 303.66 KiB/s 00:00 ETA
226 Transfer complete.
9704614 bytes received in 00:31 (303.12 KiB/s)
ftp> qui
221 Goodbye.
melanie:~ b4$ bunzip2 rstse_v10_1_install_sep10_1992.tap.bz2
melanie:~ b4$ ~/simh/BIN/pdp11
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 746e5ab8
sim> at -r tq rstse_v10_1_install_sep10_1992.tap
TQ: unit is read only
sim> set cpu 11/23
sim> set cpu 1m
Disabling RK
Disabling HK
Disabling TM
sim> b tq
TQ I/O error: Undefined error: 0
I/O error, PC: 157456 (TST 157520)
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
El 15/05/2014, a les 23.14, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
Are you getting weird "invalid block size" messages?
If so, check:
- Your CPU type is 11/73 (I'm pretty sure other options will work, but not, for instance, 11/70)
- Make sure you have set your tape drive to READ ONLY (set TS0 LOCK)
- Use the TS device.
I'm right now repeating the install to check it just works. Looking at the monitor building progress bar ...
It worked
Memory available to RSTS/E is 2044K words.
Re-creating CRASH.SYS file with minimum size of 1316 blocks
4 devices disabled
Proceed with system startup? <YES>
Beginning RSTS/E system startup...
15-May-14 11:20 PM Installing monitor overlays
15-May-14 11:20 PM Mounting disks
15-May-14 11:20 PM Assigning logical names
15-May-14 11:20 PM Starting error logging
15-May-14 11:20 PM Setting system characteristics
15-May-14 11:20 PM Installing run-time systems and libraries
15-May-14 11:20 PM Starting Operator/Message Services
OMS V10.1-A 15-May-14 11:20 PM <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message 1 from OMS, user [1,2], Detached, job 3
Starting Operator/Message Services
15-May-14 11:20 PM Setting terminal characteristics
15-May-14 11:20 PM Defining system commands
15-May-14 11:20 PM Setting printer characteristics
15-May-14 11:20 PM Starting spoolers
*** From [1,2] "[ 1, 2]" on KB0: at 11:20 PM 15-May-14
** RSTS/E is on the air...
OMS V10.1-A 15-May-14 11:20 PM <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message 2 from user [1,2] on _KB0:, job 2
The system startup is complete
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On 05/15/2014 05:14 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER
to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and
install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
I can assist with that later tonight, unless Jordi can help sooner.
You know the tape needs to be write-locked for a RSTS/E install, right?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote:
El 15/05/2014, a les 5.15, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
The RZ25 didn't have the disk to copy the image I had ready.
Thankfully...it failed (apparently something went short as it being plugged in makes the VAX /fail to power on/) so I can use my 526M drive!
Hi Cory,
I'm perhaps a little bit late catching this train, but... what was the original problem you are trying to solve using this kind of hardware sorcery? Your first post mentioned something along you being unable to install RSTS/E under simh from tape... could you be more specific? I have a running RSTS/E installation which I built from an install tape, and perhaps I could help you to fix the initial problem which triggered all this disk size/connection/style thing...
First I need to find the exact size of the drive so I can set an RAUSER to it. I can then install RSTS/E *IF* I can get SIMH to boot and install from the RSTS/E V10.1 tape (which I can't get it to do).
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
El 15/05/2014, a les 5.15, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
The RZ25 didn't have the disk to copy the image I had ready.
Thankfully...it failed (apparently something went short as it being plugged in makes the VAX /fail to power on/) so I can use my 526M drive!
Hi Cory,
I'm perhaps a little bit late catching this train, but... what was the original problem you are trying to solve using this kind of hardware sorcery? Your first post mentioned something along you being unable to install RSTS/E under simh from tape... could you be more specific? I have a running RSTS/E installation which I built from an install tape, and perhaps I could help you to fix the initial problem which triggered all this disk size/connection/style thing...
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On Wed, 14 May 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/14/2014 10:40 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Any alternate ideas? I'm leaning towards the first. Are the SIMH RA81
disk images anything special or can I shove one directly on a drive on
an MSCP-emulating SCSI controller?
Yes, this works; I've done it many times with several DEC OSs,
targeting both DEC drives and DEC-drive-emulating SCSI and ESDI drives.
I'll go find a system that'll let me copy an image to a SCSI drive
with an IDC connector, then. Sweet.
Bah! I have an RZ25 and the image is 435M. 35M short. :(
35M short? For what?
The RZ25 didn't have the disk to copy the image I had ready.
Thankfully...it failed (apparently something went short as it being plugged in makes the VAX /fail to power on/) so I can use my 526M drive!
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 05/14/2014 10:40 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Any alternate ideas? I'm leaning towards the first. Are the SIMH RA81
disk images anything special or can I shove one directly on a drive on
an MSCP-emulating SCSI controller?
Yes, this works; I've done it many times with several DEC OSs,
targeting both DEC drives and DEC-drive-emulating SCSI and ESDI drives.
I'll go find a system that'll let me copy an image to a SCSI drive
with an IDC connector, then. Sweet.
Bah! I have an RZ25 and the image is 435M. 35M short. :(
35M short? For what?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Wed, 14 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 14 May 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/14/2014 10:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Any alternate ideas? I'm leaning towards the first. Are the SIMH RA81
disk images anything special or can I shove one directly on a drive on
an MSCP-emulating SCSI controller?
Yes, this works; I've done it many times with several DEC OSs,
targeting both DEC drives and DEC-drive-emulating SCSI and ESDI drives.
I'll go find a system that'll let me copy an image to a SCSI drive with an IDC connector, then. Sweet.
Bah! I have an RZ25 and the image is 435M. 35M short. :(
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Wed, 14 May 2014, John Wilson wrote:
From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
Also: e11 doesn't work in DOSbox.
E11 doesn't like XMS. Set "xms=false" and "ems=false" in your dosbox-0.74.conf
and you should be golden.
Yup. Seems to have worked! Thanks!
John Wilson
D Bit
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Wed, 14 May 2014, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/14/2014 10:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Any alternate ideas? I'm leaning towards the first. Are the SIMH RA81
disk images anything special or can I shove one directly on a drive on
an MSCP-emulating SCSI controller?
Yes, this works; I've done it many times with several DEC OSs,
targeting both DEC drives and DEC-drive-emulating SCSI and ESDI drives.
I'll go find a system that'll let me copy an image to a SCSI drive with an IDC connector, then. Sweet.
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 05/14/2014 10:13 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Any alternate ideas? I'm leaning towards the first. Are the SIMH RA81
disk images anything special or can I shove one directly on a drive on
an MSCP-emulating SCSI controller?
Yes, this works; I've done it many times with several DEC OSs,
targeting both DEC drives and DEC-drive-emulating SCSI and ESDI drives.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
